The decision to fire AVB

[Millsy_Yiddo]

There's a common denominator in all this.

The players. They haven't performed, for either manager. They either just aren't very good, or they can't be arsed. Neither is good enough for a club looking to break into the top 4.

 

[Hootnow]

With hindsight it began long before sacking AVB (which at the time was the right move) and started when we sold Modric (even possibly befiore that when we sold Carrick and Berbatov), from that point everyone knew everyone was available for the right price and we became a selling club.

We became a selling club? At no point in our history (or the history of almost every single club on the planet) have we not been a selling club. People need to get over this point and stop beating Levy over the head with it. There isn't a club in the world at our equivalent size that doesn't have to sell their players. In fact, there isn't a club until you get to around Bayern/ Real/ kind of Man Utd levels of prestige and wealth that don't have to sell players.

As for AVB, I said at the time I didn't want him to go but could see the reasons why he was moved on. Ultimately, I don't think he was fired for footballing reasons (just like Redknapp) so if relationships had broken down at the club, then I don't see what else could have been done.

 

[Robspur12]

This has been done to deat

 

[Mulletperm]

Has it ever been confirmed that he was actually 'sacked'?
Or was it a mutual thing?

 

[Robspur12]

Sorry stupid phone. This has been done to death in one way or another. The problem comes from conflating two separate decisions, i.e.sacking one manager and appointing anew one. Sacking both Avb and redknapp were the right decisions levy got it wrong on their replacements. Avb was losing it at the end both on and off the pitch. He had to go.

 

[diego_maradona]

He must feel somewhat vindicated by this. If Baldini is being blamed now does it excuse AVB and the poor football to a degree?

Sherwood is all over the place. He changes the players, the formations week by week and as a result the performances seem to be getting worse with players not knowing what they are supposed to do.

 

[Robspur12]

He must feel somewhat vindicated by this. If Baldini is being blamed now does it excuse AVB and the poor football to a degree?

Sherwood is all over the place. He changes the players, the formations week by week and as a result the performances seem to be getting worse with players not knowing what they are supposed to do.

saying he must feel vindicated suggests he is absolved of any blame. He is as much responsible for the poor form of the likes of Soldado as the new coach. He was head coach when all the new players were signed. He didn't resign. He gave up when things were going wrong.

 

[diego_maradona]

saying he must feel vindicated suggests he is absolved of any blame. He is as much responsible for the poor form of the likes of Soldado as the new coach. He was head coach when all the new players were signed. He didn't resign. He gave up when things were going wrong.

He assumed responsibility still though. He put his hands up. We is us, remember? He was a good man. He had his faults but it seems obvious now that the squad has been badly put together. The balance is wrong imv. The Adebayor saga ultimately screwed him over. Ultimately we need to understand from AVB, Levy, Sherwood to Baldini, is this DoF thing working for us, and if not why?

Are we all green lighting these signings? Was AVB happy with the signings? If not then why did he not oppose this. Perhaps he did. These are questions we just don't know the answer.

 

[Robspur12]

He assumed responsibility still though. He put his hands up. We is us, remember? He was a good man. He had his faults but it seems obvious now that the squad has been badly put together. The balance is wrong imv. The Adebayor saga ultimately screwed him over. Ultimately we need to understand from AVB, Levy, Sherwood to Baldini, is this DoF thing working for us, and if not why?

Are we all green lighting these signings? Was AVB happy with the signings? If not then why did he not oppose this. Perhaps he did. These are questions we just don't know the answer.

I humbly disagree he was a good bloke. At the end he was blaming everyone for the failures, the fans, Baldini. He had marginalized people like Freund. I get it Ade was. Difficult cnut but we clearly needed him. Then if you read what Steff posts the man had dug himself such a hole when the end came he wanted to go but not resign so he kept his payout for failing. He was supposed to be the genius coach Sherwood the novice yet Sherwood was getting the better results in the league. For me, a big levy fan, appointing Avb was his biggest mistake.

 

[diego_maradona]

I humbly disagree he was a good bloke. At the end he was blaming everyone for the failures, the fans, Baldini. He had marginalized people like Freund. I get it Ade was. Difficult cnut but we clearly needed him. Then if you read what Steff posts the man had dug himself such a hole when the end came he wanted to go but not resign so he kept his payout for failing. He was supposed to be the genius coach Sherwood the novice yet Sherwood was getting the better results in the league. For me, a big levy fan, appointing Avb was his biggest mistake.

You have absolutely no proof of any of those things you've said there. Completely based it all on hearsay.

And has Sherwood really got a better record in the league? Perhaps things are beginning to even themselves out now as Sherwood had a much easier run in when he took over. He's lost just as heavily against top clubs.

 

[indianspur]

Levy made a mistake buy bringing AVB in at all. Shocking for me he was clearly out of his depth in the prem as proven at Chelski. We played crap football from the start and were carried buy bale last season so many 1-0 with so many wonder goals from Bale.
Proven when Bale was injured it was clueless.
Levy brought him in because he was cheap and only person willing to jump onto the merry go round that is our club and he was a failure no Bale last year would have been 10 th at best

yeah id go along with most of this.......however, im sure his job was made doubly difficult with Sherwood hanging around the place acting like he owned the club. Levy has a major decision on his hands if he decides to bring in a new manager in the summer. Imo Sherwood appears to be a divisive character and you either let such a person have full reign to do what he wants or you simply ship him off out of the place. Big decision for Levy imo

 

[Robspur12]

You have absolutely no proof of any of those things you've said there. Completely based it all on hearsay.

And has Sherwood really got a better record in the league? Perhaps things are beginning to even themselves out now as Sherwood had a much easier run in when he took over. He's lost just as heavily against top clubs.

Tbf mate you do not have any evidence he was "a good bloke" most of our posts are based on hearsay. I do have evidence from a press conference he did prior to losing the Liverpool game where he said many signings were not his. I also believe Steff is a pretty reliable source re: how Avb behaved at the end.

 

[diego_maradona]

Tbf mate you do not have any evidence he was "a good bloke" most of our posts are based on hearsay. I do have evidence from a press conference he did prior to losing the Liverpool game where he said many signings were not his. I also believe Steff is a pretty reliable source re: how Avb behaved at the end.

I'm basing what I think of him on how he always handled himself in press conferences, post game interviews. I respected his ideals and morales. Hey, that's just me, clearly he rubbed you up the wrong way, that's fine.

Have you got quotes of where he said the signings were not his? If this is true, then this goes back to another point I was making about how the clubs top tier need to understand whether the DoF appointment worked and if not, why not.

If he said the signings were not his, it still doesn't detract from when he said we are a collective and are all to blame. He never shirked his responsibility.

Anyway, this is old ground and done to death. No good comes from revisiting this.

 

[Rob]

...

Anyway, this is old ground and done to death. No good comes from revisiting this.

I disagree - with the benefit of hindsight you can better structure foresight. I'd also think it would be good to go back over it in November when we can really take stock of how it left us, how we've progressed or not etc. obviously people will still throw in 'what ifs', but a lot of the what ifs which were about at the time he was sacked have now been answered so it could prove interesting.

 

[the fox in the box]

I still think it was the right decision... the promosing signs of early season of grinding out 1.0s with us all thinking they will click any game now had long gone!

the team was regressing under him big time....

The question I ask you is... Considering he marginalised Ade to such a huge extent and there were no signs he was going to be played again.... Where would we be now with AVB in charge and none of Ade's goals.... He has carried us under sherwood!!

 

[billyiddo]

unless there was some kind of behind the scenes player mutiny/clash of personalities between the manager and the chairman etc then no i do not think it was the right decision. i thought so at the time and think the same now.

first season under AVB, as people have rightly pointed out was all about getting Bale to conjure stuff out of nothing - although we were still in a decent place before Bale hit his stride around the Christmas period. the key point here was if you took Bale out of that team we certainly looked some way short of a side capable of challenging for top 4 on paper, as it happens we run Arsenal close once again, was it one point away?

this season we bought in 7 new faces (more if you include returning loanees) and sent about the same number packing, including the one player everyone seems to give full credit to for getting us 5th the season prior - to only give the coach half a season to mold the squad in to a fully functioning team was, imv, a total joke. it just doesn't make any sense to me - if there were other reasons for his departure then fair enough but based purely on footballing terms it's not a decision i agree with at all.

 

[Huddy]

I think there is more to AVB leaving the club than just results, plenty of politics going on by all accounts. It's hard to draw a conclusion based on what little facts we have as to why he and Levy decided to terminate, but from a purely footballing point of view we've gone backwards since his departure, but that doesn't mean he should have stayed.

 

[chancer]

In reality, there was no decision to fire AVB.

Rather, it was a textbook example of someone's position becoming untenable.

It is still speculation to an extent, but the version of events that rings truest to me is that Levy and Baldini hadn't planned to sack AVB on the Sunday after the Liverpool game. Rather, they went to AVB after the game to ask what was going on and found him brusque and intransigent to their questioning. They all slept on it, and it was only on the Monday when they met and nobody could back down that the end came, at which point not even AVB himself put up much fight to stay.

The reason I believe that general outline to the story is because it's so similar to what happened at Chelsea. Results, performances, personal relationships, squad harmony, trust between employer and employee, fan relations, media relations...all were shot to pieces at both Spurs and Chelsea, whatever the rights or wrongs on either side. Maybe AVB was right in both instances, but if you can't manage the politics and personal relationships, being right isn't enough and your position eventually, inevitably becomes untenable.

The mistake wasn't sacking him, it was hiring him in the first place.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Timmeh got his little dead cat bounce from an easy run of fixtures, but things overall have got significantly worse since December.

It's hard to say whether sacking him was the right thing for the club without knowledge of the relationship with Levy and Baldini. However AVB was still doing a good job in difficult circumstances and deserved to be fully backed till at least the end of the season.

I never felt AVB lost either the support of his players or a sense of direction/the solution. Timmeh has neither of these, and I don't think ever did.

 

[Kingdawson]

Timmeh got his little dead cat bounce from an easy run of fixtures, but things overall have got significantly worse since December.

It's hard to say whether sacking him was the right thing for the club without knowledge of the relationship with Levy and Baldini. However AVB was still doing a good job in difficult circumstances and deserved to be fully backed till at least the end of the season.

I never felt AVB lost either the support of his players or a sense of direction/the solution. Timmeh has neither of these, and I don't think ever did.

Eh? he left us in 7th position with a GD of -6.

How exactly is that doing a good job...