Spurs v Monaco OMT

[alekaras]

Eh. There's a *lot* wrong with our European performances which I can't quite explain. It just makes me embarrassed that we've proven so, so poor against comparable opposition. When we were drawn in this group, I expected a tight six games with plenty of competition.

But we've just been utterly schooled in every game save for CSKA away, and there we were mostly turgid. Save for Toby and Lloris, *every* one of our players has proven utterly, irredeemably inferior to his continental counterparts. And Poch .... what have you done?

You know, one of the arguments about England's decline in European competitions is that the big clubs (United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City) not being there consistently has led to smaller clubs getting into the CL and embarrassing themselves and the Premier League in general. I never subscribed to that, and still don't (look at Leicester). But *we* have embarassed ourselves and the Premier League with our performances. Tottenham Hotspur has proven that it didn't deserve to be here.

And that hurts. Might as well have stayed in the fudgeing EL if that's the level we're comfortable with.

It isn't our youth. Monaco's team were hardly younger than us. Is it our quality? Is it our manager? Is it just that we're not as good as we think we are, saved by a few key players performing? I don't know. Like I said, there's a *lot* wrong with how dismally, abysmally we've collapsed in Europe.

But I do know that Harry Redknapp has now conclusively sh*t all over Poch in terms of how great he made us look in Europe. And that hurts too, because Poch brings so many other positives that Harry never brought - but where Harry's team thrilled and overcame massive odds to emerge top of their debut CL group while thrashing the CL *champions*, Mauricio Pochettino's team has humiliated themselves and the PL with how undeniably awfully, helplessly, brainlessly they've gone out against a group which we looked capable of at least competing with.

And this is on Poch, no doubts about it. He got the players he wanted, and got a net spend Harry was *begging* for in his last few years. Levy backed his man, so I don't have to make excuses for him. Poch failed, as much as the team did

I just....I dunno. It's hard to think about how inferior we've been. And it leads to some troubling questions which shouldn't have to be asked - questions that relate to how we did last season. I always maintained that, despite our relative overperformance, in absolute terms, we only finished on 70 points, which Redknapp managed in 2009-2010, AVB exceeded in 2012-2013 and which all our recent managers have more or less managed to hover at for five or six-odd years. Did we *really* exceed ourselves last season, or was it just performing at par in a season where everyone else underperformed?

It's a question that I've been open about, and which has lurked in the back of my mind. I hoped to dismiss it entirely. But it's difficult to do so after...after the sort of capitulation we've just seen.

Forget about the points total last season. We played really good football and outplayed all our opponents, except for Wet Spam and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. This drop in the quality of our football is what concerns me more. This season we might end up with more points, but with worse performances, but that won't mean we have progressed.

 

[parklane1]

As strong as our squad may be on paper you cant be going away to Monaco in a must win and play Dier, Winks, Trippier over Verts, Walker and and experienced CM (take your pick from Sissoko, Eriksen or the fast winger). fudge the Chelsea game, that will pick itself 1600 Saturday, not 1900 Tuesday night.

This is what tinkled me off ( and the majority of fans i travelled with), for several years now the club has passed up the chance to win one of the cups. We are led to believe ( by some fans at least) that the only thing that matters is finishing among the losers ( top four) so that we can play in the Holy Grail called the CL.

We have travelled all over Europe and here watching our team in cup games in the hope that we could win another trophy, but again and again we have come home disappointed after fielding a weak side and getting knocked out again. This year we made the Holy Grail and after a poor start in the earlier games we went into the Monaco game knowing that a win was the only result we had to get was a win. Then we name a team with three of our best players on the bench ( after already being without three others Toby, Lamela, Davies)

Shocking and its getting to the point that i and others who travel to these games are begining to think " what's the fudging point". We have always been a cup team and even in the years when we have been a tinkle poor team we always believed we could progress in the cups and because of that we kept going. Now we have a good side( one that is good enough to win a trophy IF we take it serious) but we give all that away.

As i said before what's the fudging point.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is what tinkled me off ( and the majority of fans i travelled with), for several years now the club has passed up the chance to win one of the cups. We are led to believe ( by some fans at least) that the only thing that matters is finishing among the losers ( top four) so that we can play in the Holy Grail called the CL.

We have travelled all over Europe and here watching our team in cup games in the hope that we could win another trophy, but again and again we have come home disappointed after fielding a weak side and getting knocked out again. This year we made the Holy Grail and after a poor start in the earlier games we went into the Monaco game knowing that a win was the only result we had to get was a win. Then we name a team with three of our best players on the bench ( after already being without three others Toby, Lamela, Davies)

Shocking and its getting to the point that i and others who travel to these games are begining to think " what's the fudging point". We have always been a cup team and even in the years when we have been a tinkle poor team we always believed we could progress in the cups and because of that we kept going. Now we have a good side( one that is good enough to win a trophy IF we take it serious) but we give all that away.

As i said before what's the fudging point.

The point is quickly becoming £££ over ️

I can't fathom out why we played a weakened side in what was basically a cup tie

We will bank decent money from being in it and that's important to some. We were never gonna win it either but we have gone out without a whimper and that's incredibly frustrating and makes me mad.

The lack of urgency on and off the pitch on Tuesday was awful

 

[Baleforce]

The point is quickly becoming £££ over ️

I can't fathom out why we played a weakened side in what was basically a cup tie

We will bank decent money from being in it and that's important to some. We were never gonna win it either but we have gone out without a whimper and that's incredibly frustrating and makes me mad.

The lack of urgency on and off the pitch on Tuesday was awful

it's been that way for two decades

I don't think Poch considered that a weakened team, he's shown faith in our squad before, we won plenty of games last season with more changes than we made Tuesday

it's gutting to go out in the group stage no doubt, embarrassing even

the players have been sub par all season

 

[parklane1]

The point is quickly becoming £££ over ️

I can't fathom out why we played a weakened side in what was basically a cup tie

We will bank decent money from being in it and that's important to some. We were never gonna win it either but we have gone out without a whimper and that's incredibly frustrating and makes me mad.

The lack of urgency on and off the pitch on Tuesday was awful

(1) I agree and that is what i hate most about what ( for me and many others) was the best game in the world. Sky and their money started that decline and its been followed by the financially doped clubs.

(2) Beats me as well, especially seeing as we have passed up many cups in the last few years to get into the CL.

(3) Again i agree, i said last year we are/were not good enough ( yet) to win the Prem ( took a lot of stick for it too) so we have no chance of winning the CL.

(4) I hate to say this but players are no difference to anyone else, if you tell people that cup games are not really that important ( and as i say we have been doing that since " rent a quote" did it in the EL years ago) then the rot can set in.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

(1) I agree and that is what i hate most about what ( for me and many others) was the best game in the world. Sky and their money started that decline and its been followed by the financially doped clubs.

(2) Beats me as well, especially seeing as we have passed up many cups in the last few years to get into the CL.

(3) Again i agree, i said last year we are/were not good enough ( yet) to win the Prem ( took a lot of stick for it too) so we have no chance of winning the CL.

(4) I hate to say this but players are no difference to anyone else, if you tell people that cup games are not really that important ( and as i say we have been doing that since " rent a quote" did it in the EL years ago) then the rot can set in.

Well the money now for champions league isn't even sky money but the principle is same and it had for some time made the league less and less competitive until recently

I'm all for utilising the squad but a must win game away against the best side we have played this year isn't that time. I'll put it down to Poch inexperience

I agree with the comment we're not good enough yet to win the league, but a concern for me is I see next season as being that peak when we will have players fully refreshed with no international competitions. Then Wembley becomes a big issue as we have t made it home despite the clubs efforts (which have been exceptional IMO). They have to find a way (and we do as fans) of taking the scale of the ground and making it menacing for the opposition. The club have to get fans sat together who will sing together for start.

My concern is if we don't do something next season then players will be off as they will have given it a fair crack of the whip. You can dangle the carrot of the new shiny staiudm but it would be no more hoke for them as Wembley at that point

And your last point is 100% right and that showed last year for me. Our players had it in their head that they would win the league. That showed on the pitch and we played in a manner I hadn't seen in years. This season we play like we're broken and trying to fix things on the pitch mentally. It's not the best pace to do it and missing key leaders isn't helping

 

[Spurs7891]

Really annoyed with this result. Thought we would atleast get a draw to keep alive our chance to progress. Instead, we played poorly and deserved to lose. Pochettino has to take the blame for his poor team selection. It seems like he got complacent by resting players lke Vertonghen, Eriksen and Walker. Players too have to take their share of the blame for not lifting their game in an important match like this. If they cannot get motivated in an important CL match, not sure what will motivate them.

Apart from Pochettino's poor selection, a few players contributed directly to this defeat. I think Son has to take the large part of the blame for wasting the one-on-one chance with the goalie early in the match. It is unforgivable when any player wastes the one-on-one chances like that. Son had all the time in the world to either lob the ball over or round the goalie but he was too slow to react and let the goalie save it. If we had scored then, it would have helped us settle down. Kane took the penalty well for our only goal but he also wasted a good chance in the second half. Alli won the penalty but he too should have scored with his open goal chance late in the match.

I think we lost this match in midfield. Wanyama and Dembele couldn't handle the Monaco midfield. We should have started with Eriksen instead of the inexperienced Winks. But then Eriksen and Sissoko didn't have good impact when they came on as well. Son and Alli also had poor match, wasting 2 crucial chances to score. Maybe we should have bring on Nkodou.

Really annoying the way we conceded both the goals. The Monaco player had all the time in the world to head the ball in for their first goal while our defence went missing for their second. It was also a stupid penalty to give away by Dier but fortunately Lloris did well to save it. Lloris also made another world class save in the second half to keep us in the match. It was clear we badly miss Vertonghen and Alderweireld in defence. We should have never started with the error-prone Dier and Wimmer in defence.

Adrer working hard to win the CL place last season, it was really unacceptable to go out of the CL like this. Hope Pochettino will now learn to buy more quality players instead of being obsessed with inexperienced youngsters.

 

[Lemonade Money]

This is what tinkled me off ( and the majority of fans i travelled with), for several years now the club has passed up the chance to win one of the cups. We are led to believe ( by some fans at least) that the only thing that matters is finishing among the losers ( top four) so that we can play in the Holy Grail called the CL.

We have travelled all over Europe and here watching our team in cup games in the hope that we could win another trophy, but again and again we have come home disappointed after fielding a weak side and getting knocked out again. This year we made the Holy Grail and after a poor start in the earlier games we went into the Monaco game knowing that a win was the only result we had to get was a win. Then we name a team with three of our best players on the bench ( after already being without three others Toby, Lamela, Davies)

Shocking and its getting to the point that i and others who travel to these games are begining to think " what's the fudging point". We have always been a cup team and even in the years when we have been a tinkle poor team we always believed we could progress in the cups and because of that we kept going. Now we have a good side( one that is good enough to win a trophy IF we take it serious) but we give all that away.

As i said before what's the fudging point.

Felt exactly the same coming home from Dortmund.

 

[Lemonade Money]

it's been that way for two decades

I don't think Poch considered that a weakened team, he's shown faith in our squad before, we won plenty of games last season with more changes than we made Tuesday

it's gutting to go out in the group stage no doubt, embarrassing even

the players have been sub par all season

WALOB. When did we last start a PL game with Vertonghen and Walker on the bench?

 

[parklane1]

Felt exactly the same coming home from Dortmund.

It does make me ( and others) question if it is worth spending all our time and money going to these games if ( for whatever) reason we make a half hearted effort to progress. Before anyone starts banging on about it being our choice of course it is but when we do this we expect to try and win the games ( by putting out a strong not weakened side).

Like i said earlier i go with a group who have been together for years and during that time we have hardly missed a game, but coming back on Wednesday we were all saying that maybe we are being taken for mugs. Why should we spend hundreds of pounds ( again i say to others i know its our choice) when we fail to either put out strong teams or just not compete.

What's the fudging point.

 

[parklane1]

it's been that way for two decades

I don't think Poch considered that a weakened team, he's shown faith in our squad before, we won plenty of games last season with more changes than we made Tuesday

it's gutting to go out in the group stage no doubt, embarrassing even

the players have been sub par all season

Sorry mate but that is gonad*s, the CL is supposed to be the pinacule of events ( i am sure you have made that point at times) and we left three of our best players on the bench, add to that we were already without Toby, Lamela and Davies through injury.

So for you to say that is rubbish.

 

[Baleforce]

WALOB. When did we last start a PL game with Vertonghen and Walker on the bench?

Sorry mate but that is gonad*s, the CL is supposed to be the pinacule of events ( i am sure you have made that point at times) and we left three of our best players on the bench, add to that we were already without Toby, Lamela and Davies through injury.

So for you to say that is rubbish.

Wimmer was excellent last season, when Verts returned to the line up many felt Wimmer was a bit hard done by did they not? I know I did.

Likewise Trippier had some great games last season, there were many posts on here celebrating our rude health at RB were there not?

We have 3 games in 7 days, for the last of which we only have 1 LB available, the logic in the selection was obvious.

The CL is indeed the most important competition, and qualifying for it next season is far more important than staying in it this season.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Haha! Funny.

 

[mudshark]

Prioritising a potential route into next season's group stage over the lottery of a knockout round this term probably makes sense to a bean-counter mentality. We're not supposed to ask questions like "what's the point?", we're just supposed to carry on handing over our hard-earned.

 

[parklane1]

The CL is indeed the most important competition, and qualifying for it next season is far more important than staying in it this season.

GHod what a attitude just more rubbish, i suppose its not so bad for those who sit on their arses watching games on the box. What about those who do spend a lot of time and hundreds of pounds going to see these games? do they not deserve better?

 

[Jordinho]

GHod what a attitude just more rubbish, i suppose its not so bad for those who sit on their arses watching games on the box. What about those who do spend a lot of time and hundreds of pounds going to see these games? do they not deserve better?

Their money, their choice as you like to say. I think it would be great if more away games went to members.

 

[parklane1]

Their money, their choice as you like to say. I think it would be great if more away games went to members.

And would said members if they had tickets and travelled out to these games be happy to hear some fans say " qualifying for it next season is far more important than staying in it this season".

 

[Jordinho]

And would said members if they had tickets and travelled out to these games be happy to hear some fans say " qualifying for it next season is far more important than staying in it this season".

I would and I'm a member.

 

[Baleforce]

I'd say that, this is the first year I didn't renew my membership since the 90's*

*I have two young kids so don't get the chance to go anymore, all I was paying for was my place on the season ticket list which now won't be a problem with the awesome new stadium, it would just have been a waste of £50

all that matters to me in continuing progress of the business, established CL qualifiers is the next step

 

[DubaiSpur]

Forget about the points total last season. We played really good football and outplayed all our opponents, except for Wet Spam and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. This drop in the quality of our football is what concerns me more. This season we might end up with more points, but with worse performances, but that won't mean we have progressed.

Not really - I tend to think performances are the worst thing to measure if you're looking to get an objective sense of where we are as a team, because teams fluctuate so much. United were utter dogsh*te, and we dominated them in both games last season - I'd be willing to wager that won't happen even if we took the same level of performance from our side to the game this season, simply because they've improved.

I admit measuring by points collected has the same problem. However, some hard and fast rules still apply to points collected - more than 70 usually gives you a good shot at finishing in the CL spots, more than 40 usually secures safety against relegation, and the higher you go, the likelier you are to finish higher up in the table. That can be quantified to a degree. The best performances in the world that still end up with us only on 70 points...those are harder to quantify.