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Son Heung-Min

spurspinter1 said:
You've lost me on this point. Players do have to willingly sign for a club ie they do not have a gun to their head and are able to pick according to various circumstances.

Baleforce can be infuriating but his reasonable point is you choose who you work for but not where you're from..
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They can chose NOT to sign for a club, but they can't chose exactly who they want!
Kulusevski is an arsenal fan. Why is here playing for us? Surely he would want to play for our rivals, as that's his favourite club!
 
DubaiSpur said:
You don't hear the French bringing it up because (and I may be assuming here, please correct me if so mate) you aren't reading a lot of French outlets.

I lived in, and currently work in, Quebec. I assure you, there are plenty of French-speaking folk who recognize the exceptionally brutal history of French colonialism. Probably a lot in France too - left-wing there is pretty strong, after all.

I think in general there are always pluralities of people ashamed of their history and proud of it, and a majority of people who don't care either way but will take a stance aligning with their political allegiances if pushed. This is true of most developed countries (which map neatly with those who engaged in colonialism). For developing countries, there tends to be a mythologisation of their past as a reaction to being colonized/poor, so it's a different dynamic there.
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That’s fair enough mate. Admittedly, I don’t read a lot of French media outlets.

But it seems like colonialism gets talked about a lot more now than it did 5-10 years ago. I’m certainly not proud of our colonialism, but at the same time I don’t personally feel shame or responsibility for it as I wasn’t around at the time. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do to change it. Surely it is more important that we recognise now how wrong it was and that we do not practice it anymore? I’m not even overly patriotic, but it does get grating when people portray England as irredeemably racist and everyone in the country should hang their heads in shame because of our past. Colonialism was practiced all over the world and was a product of the world as it was at the time. I dare say most of us probably would have had slaves if we had lived in the 1700s as it was just the done thing. Not excusing, but it clearly wasn’t seen as a problem or immoral.
 
Kandi1977 said:
They can chose NOT to sign for a club, but they can't chose exactly who they want!
Kulusevski is an arsenal fan. Why is here playing for us? Surely he would want to play for our rivals, as that's his favourite club!
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True in the first point. On the second, you could be a lifelong fan of Luton but if Real Madrid come calling it's a better career opportunity. "Your favourite club" isn't necessarily the best one for your career, footballers aren't always known as the wisest but they generally manage to separate the sentiment from earning potential.

This point is a bit of a tangent, I was agreeing with you that the EPL isn't the epicenter of footballing importance we Brits pretend it is and I also enjoy international football greatly, despite it being based around somewhat arbitrary lines on a map.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I dare say most of us probably would have had slaves if we had lived in the 1700s as it was just the done thing. Not excusing, but it clearly wasn’t seen as a problem or immoral.
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Eh Up! Member of the Ruling Classes alert!*



* My family were in service or agriculture M' Lord ;)
 
Yiddo said:
Double that and i think we have to consider it.
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I think we should consider anything over 50 million. Who knows how many seasons Son has left or if he can even get back to his best form?

Refusing to sell our "star" players has cost us a lot the last few years with several players walking for practically nothing in the end after their performances dropped off a cliff. There's loyalty and there's being ignorant of time passing and the team needing to be refreshed.
 
spurspinter1 said:
you could be a lifelong fan of Luton but if Real Madrid come calling it's a better career opportunity. "Your favourite club" isn't necessarily the best one for your career
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That was what I said. Most play for the club that came with the best offer for the player and previous club, not the players favourite club. And that was the point. You can't just choose to play for (insert club).
 
Kandi1977 said:
That was what I said. Most play for the club that came with the best offer for the player and previous club, not the players favourite club. And that was the point. You can't just choose to play for (insert club).
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Okay.....?

Dude I'm trying to agree with you, take the win! I don't really see how what you've said relates to your original discussion with Baleforce or that it's particularly watertight anyways.

You can work towards being as good a player as possible to get offers from various clubs. However you can't work towards playing for Wales or Zimbabwe if you have you family / links with that country. So your club is more controllable than the national team, it's not a complicated notion. I don't see the relevance of of playing for a rival team of the one you may support (I do think most grown up professional footballers grow out of that concept anyway, they might have a fondness but that's a different discussion).
 
spurspinter1 said:
I don't really see how what you've said relates to your original discussion with Baleforce or that is particularly watertight anyways.
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Because he said he didn't get why players bother to play for their country, because players choose their club but not their country.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Because he said he didn't get why players bother to play for their country, because players choose their club but not their country.
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Baleforce doesn't consider international football important but I haven't seen the suggestion that players feel the same. Obviously it's a massive honour for most.

Anyways, Son. Hope he can get back to top form under the new guy, being 100% would go a long way towards that.
 
I line Son and I would never want to sell him but if at 41 we can get £65m+ then it might just be the right time to cash in. [emoji848]



Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
 
Jordinho said:
I think we should consider anything over 50 million. Who knows how many seasons Son has left or if he can even get back to his best form?

Refusing to sell our "star" players has cost us a lot the last few years with several players walking for practically nothing in the end after their performances dropped off a cliff. There's loyalty and there's being ignorant of time passing and the team needing to be refreshed.
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They are talking next year right? You take 50m for him then, his next year give of take is his peak as a winger with pace.

Its a decent win win exit plan IF true
 
DubaiSpur said:
You don't hear the French bringing it up because (and I may be assuming here, please correct me if so mate) you aren't reading a lot of French outlets.

I lived in, and currently work in, Quebec. I assure you, there are plenty of French-speaking folk who recognize the exceptionally brutal history of French colonialism. Probably a lot in France too - left-wing there is pretty strong, after all.

I think in general there are always pluralities of people ashamed of their history and proud of it, and a majority of people who don't care either way but will take a stance aligning with their political allegiances if pushed. This is true of most developed countries (which map neatly with those who engaged in colonialism). For developing countries, there tends to be a mythologisation of their past as a reaction to being colonized/poor, so it's a different dynamic there.
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Massive hybrid of emotions is Quebec, been there alot

I think people should talk about it, its the route to the future, I think people should feel shame for it, I don't think people should carry the guilt though and I don't think the blanket statements you see about England or the UK being racist because of it is truly indicative of the fact we are now one of the most if not the most multicultural nations in the world. Bigots and racists exists everywhere as unfortunately do any other kind of deplorable human, just par for humanity.

Im not a flag waving patriot, but I am patriotic for the place I call home, I enjoy being British and bring from London, but thats more a sense of belonging than the history and I think thats allowed, not so much into the showing of military power everytime the King or Queen has a birthday, thats all abit odd, a cake should work.

@spurspinter1 just to warn you playground comparison upcoming (I jest). But I do take some comfort that in the modern world we are not up to the Americans standard, just over a hundred years ago they killed of the last remaining indigenous tribe and since then they have dragged the country through all sorts, civil rights violations the lot....and they have the audacity to call themselves the home of the free and the land of the brave, I mean that takes some doing for 100 years of history....I am clearly tongue in cheek here but it does make me laugh

On the other point about being nationalistic in football, strangely for the idea we are hugely nationalistic as a nation our footballers seem more diluted to the idea than those abroad, you sense the Argies (see World Cup) and others are live and die for it over anything. Lot to be said for that IMO, others won't agree but taking the money out the game that what you are left with, I get why they are.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
That’s fair enough mate. Admittedly, I don’t read a lot of French media outlets.

But it seems like colonialism gets talked about a lot more now than it did 5-10 years ago. I’m certainly not proud of our colonialism, but at the same time I don’t personally feel shame or responsibility for it as I wasn’t around at the time. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do to change it. Surely it is more important that we recognise now how wrong it was and that we do not practice it anymore? I’m not even overly patriotic, but it does get grating when people portray England as irredeemably racist and everyone in the country should hang their heads in shame because of our past. Colonialism was practiced all over the world and was a product of the world as it was at the time. I dare say most of us probably would have had slaves if we had lived in the 1700s as it was just the done thing. Not excusing, but it clearly wasn’t seen as a problem or immoral.
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There was no slavery in britain since the normans took over. A judge ruled in the 1500s that if a negro slave (his words not mine) stepped onto britain s/he would be considered free.
 
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