Son Heung-Min

[spurspinter1]

Massive hybrid of emotions is Quebec, been there alot

I think people should talk about it, its the route to the future, I think people should feel shame for it, I don't think people should carry the guilt though and I don't think the blanket statements you see about England or the UK being racist because of it is truly indicative of the fact we are now one of the most if not the most multicultural nations in the world. Bigots and racists exists everywhere as unfortunately do any other kind of deplorable human, just par for humanity.

Im not a flag waving patriot, but I am patriotic for the place I call home, I enjoy being British and bring from London, but thats more a sense of belonging than the history and I think thats allowed, not so much into the showing of military power everytime the King or Queen has a birthday, thats all abit odd, a cake should work.

@spurspinter1 just to warn you playground comparison upcoming (I jest). But I do take some comfort that in the modern world we are no up to the Americans standard, just over a hundred years ago they killed of the last remaining indigenous tribe and since then they have dragged the country through all sorts, civil rights violations the lot....and they have the audacity to call themselves the home of the free and the land of the brave, I mean that takes some doing for 100 years of history....I am clearly tongue in cheek here but it does make me laugh

On the other point about being nationalistic in football, strangely for the idea we are hugely nationalistic as a nation our footballers seem more diluted to the idea than those abroad, you sense the Argies (see World Cup) and others are live and die for it over anything. Lot to be said for that IMO, others won't agree but taking the money out the game that what you are left with, I get why they are.

Agree with your first paragraph to Dubai.

I fudgein love England, it's a great place but like most countries there's a fair bit of grim history, best not sweep but under the carpet but ideally learn from it. It's a tricky balance of treating everyone as an individual in the present but also acknowledging what has happened.

There are people who un-ironically thinks that white people have had it tough of late because of supposedly being blamed for everything. The type who call people snowflakes but have fits at the mention of white privilege / guilt. Those who can't wait to bring up that some black people also sold slaves as if that's some kind of excuse, or label a film "woke" because the writers have the audacity to have an lgbt character in it - I despise these tossers and have fallen out with the majority of those types on here in no uncertain terms, it's my bad for thinking a football forum would be progressive place and some would say it's me taking things a bit seriously on here.

I think I get what you mean on the America front, I appreciate you saying it in jest as a comparison of who has been the most brutal most recently.

For us or them it's always so interesting / misguided with the anti foreign / immigrant sentiment when both countries essentially kicked out or culled the indigenous population. Obviously it always depend on when the line in the sand is drawn, a typical maga "Murica is for Muricans" might not accept that we all came from Africa anyways if you go far back enough.

 

[spurspinter1]

There was no slavery in britain since the normans took over. A judge ruled in the 1500s that if a negro slave (his words not mine) stepped onto britain s/he would be considered free.

Someone really needs to let the modern slavery unit know that the work has been done for 500 years or so to get the funds used more effectively!

 

[Bishop]

There was no slavery in britain since the normans took over. A judge ruled in the 1500s that if a negro slave (his words not mine) stepped onto britain s/he would be considered free.

Hi mate, this is inaccurate. The ruling you are thinking of happened much later in 1772 due to a captured slave escaping from his "owners" . Up until that time there were indeed African slaves used on native British soil. As well as the hundreds of thousands if not millions that passed through British docks in what is called the Triangle Slave Trade. Beyond that the slavery undertaken in the USA and the Carribbean WAS British slavery. The governing authority changed over time due to the various wars of independence but the apparatus in place was absolutely British.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Baleforce]

I stand by the colonialism thing, I am ashamed to be descended from people who were not perfect, I'm sure most of us are.

But we have more recent evidence of English xenophobia, that's ultimately what caused the Brexit clusterfudge, and the lunacy we see now in Bravermans home office.

Nationalism is bad, borders are a ridiculous concept, we are one species, on one homeworld, we need to share.

 

[Grays_1890]

Agree with your first paragraph to Dubai.

I fudgein love England, it's a great place but like most countries there's a fair bit of grim history, best not sweep but under the carpet but ideally learn from it. It's a tricky balance of treating everyone as an individual in the present but also acknowledging what has happened.

There are people who un-ironically thinks that white people have had it tough of late because of supposedly being blamed for everything. The type who call people snowflakes but have fits at the mention of white privilege / guilt. Those who can't wait to bring up that some black people also sold slaves as if that's some kind of excuse, or label a film "woke" because the writers have the audacity to have an lgbt character in it - I despise these tossers and have fallen out with the majority of those types on here in no uncertain terms, it's my bad for thinking a football forum would be progressive place and some would say it's me taking things a bit seriously on here.

I think I get what you mean on the America front, I appreciate you saying it in jest as a comparison of who has been the most brutal most recently.

For us or them it's always so interesting / misguided with the anti foreign / immigrant sentiment when both countries essentially kicked out or culled the indigenous population. Obviously it always depend on when the line in the sand is drawn, a typical maga "Murica is for Muricans" might not accept that we all came from Africa anyways if you go far back enough.

On the America front I take probably more umbrage at how recent the history is and the brass neck in 2023 to sing about being the home of the free and land of the brave when the blood has not dried under their feet yet. That's not to exonerate the UK by the way just clarification on that point.

On a segway to your immigrant point, the loss of the submarine in the US tells a grim tale of the world's priorities lie when it comes to human nature. 5 humans seemingly holding more value than nations like the UK and France prodding boats towards each other and no real responsibility taken for any loss of life. Its like a human version of the sims.

Anyway I don't wanna digress of the overall topic.

HEUNG MIN DONE haha

 

[Lilbaz]

Hi mate, this is inaccurate. The ruling you are thinking of happened much later in 1772 due to a captured slave escaping from his "owners" . Up until that time there were indeed African slaves used on native British soil. As well as the hundreds of thousands if not millions that passed through British docks in what is called the Triangle Slave Trade. Beyond that the slavery undertaken in the USA and the Carribbean WAS British slavery. The governing authority changed over time due to the various wars of independence but the apparatus in place was absolutely British.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

Was confusing 2 cases. The case in 1569 was involving a russian slave that had been bought abroad. The owner was beating him. The court ruled that slavery was not recognised in english law.

There are slaves in britain today. But it is illegal.

If it makes any difference my ancestor was Cinnéide (Brian Boru's father) and as king of Dál gCais he would have owned english and welsh slaves. As slavery wasn't abolished in ireland till 1170.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Agree with your first paragraph to Dubai.

I fudgein love England, it's a great place but like most countries there's a fair bit of grim history, best not sweep but under the carpet but ideally learn from it. It's a tricky balance of treating everyone as an individual in the present but also acknowledging what has happened.

There are people who un-ironically thinks that white people have had it tough of late because of supposedly being blamed for everything. The type who call people snowflakes but have fits at the mention of white privilege / guilt. Those who can't wait to bring up that some black people also sold slaves as if that's some kind of excuse, or label a film "woke" because the writers have the audacity to have an lgbt character in it - I despise these tossers and have fallen out with the majority of those types on here in no uncertain terms, it's my bad for thinking a football forum would be progressive place and some would say it's me taking things a bit seriously on here.

I think I get what you mean on the America front, I appreciate you saying it in jest as a comparison of who has been the most brutal most recently.

For us or them it's always so interesting / misguided with the anti foreign / immigrant sentiment when both countries essentially kicked out or culled the indigenous population. Obviously it always depend on when the line in the sand is drawn, a typical maga "Murica is for Muricans" might not accept that we all came from Africa anyways if you go far back enough.

You have a habit of bringing race into a lot conversations. Asking people if they’re white and assuming that’s the reason why they think what they think. I’m wondering what purpose this identity politics serves other than alienating people.

 

[spurspinter1]

You have a habit of bringing race into a lot conversations. Asking people if they’re white and assuming that’s the reason why they think what they think. I’m wondering what purpose this identity politics serves other than alienating people.

Pretending race isn't a thing isn't helpful but I'll also admit to occasionally bringing it up in a non productive manner on occasion. However in this instance it wasn't me that raised it, I do generally find the attempts to not discuss race or pretending to not see colour (that's the worst) as efforts to minimize people's real life struggles, but we can agree to disagree on that one if you'd like.

I don't think I've outright asked if people are white, I've just assumed based on what people have said and would be happily corrected if wrong but that hasn't been the case.

It's like assuming a person is straight if they say something like "I don't mind the gays, I just don't want to see them kissing on an advert on the TV when I'm in the middle of dinner". You can often tell things about people by the discriminatory things they say.

This has gone way off topic, I don't mind as it's interesting to discuss on the off season when nothing is going on but I'll stop if it's annoying.

 

[tommysvr]

Son seeing what his thread has turned into

 

[Grays_1890]

Son seeing what his thread has turned into

Hahah I blame the Greeks, Romans and the Norman conquests personally....

In all seriousness how do you see Son doing under Ange? Return to his strengths and the exciting Son we know?

 

[tommysvr]

Hahah I blame the Greeks, Romans and the Norman conquests personally....

In all seriousness how do you see Son doing under Ange? Return to his strengths and the exciting Son we know?

I imagine Ange is salivating at the thought of Son in his team. Really don’t know how we’ll line up but if it’s the same as he’s done with other teams I can see Son doing very well. Ange will love his passion and energy, and we know he has the quality. Stay wide, spread the defence and allow the CMs to push up and become an attacking threat.

 

[Grays_1890]

I imagine Ange is salivating at the thought of Son in his team. Really don’t know how we’ll line up but if it’s the same as he’s done with other teams I can see Son doing very well. Ange will love his passion and energy, and we know he has the quality. Stay wide, spread the defence and allow the CMs to push up and become an attacking threat.

Yeh sounds promising. The things is as fans we have been starved of anything that looks to our strengths which is undoubtedly our front 3, Kane got 30 goals in the league but that was as much about relying on his % of finishing that offering him up chances. Bout time we had a plan to work towards Son, Kane, Deki and then the supporting cast which is also strong. The areas we need to address are obviously clear but having the Frontline, the FBs fairly settled means we can knuckle down to those areas. Could be quietly exciting times

 

[tommysvr]

Yeh sounds promising. The things is as fans we have been starved of anything that looks to our strengths which is undoubtedly our front 3, Kane got 30 goals in the league but that was as much about relying on his % of finishing that offering him up chances. Bout time we had a plan to work towards Son, Kane, Deki and then the supporting cast which is also strong. The areas we need to address are obviously clear but having the Frontline, the FBs fairly settled means we can knuckle down to those areas. Could be quietly exciting times

We clearly need a new GK, probably 2 CBs and ideally a creative midfielder but other than I think our squad is strong and with some proper direction things will be much more enjoyable under Ange (certainly can’t get much worse!)

 

[papaspur]

We clearly need a new GK, probably 2 CBs and ideally a creative midfielder but other than I think our squad is strong and with some proper direction things will be much more enjoyable under Ange (certainly can’t get much worse!)

 

[Jurgen the German]

Pretending race isn't a thing isn't helpful but I'll also admit to occasionally bringing it up in a non productive manner on occasion. However in this instance it wasn't me that raised it, I do generally find the attempts to not discuss race or pretending to not see colour (that's the worst) as efforts to minimize people's real life struggles, but we can agree to disagree on that one if you'd like.

I don't think I've outright asked if people are white, I've just assumed based on what people have said and would be happily corrected if wrong but that hasn't been the case.

It's like assuming a person is straight if they say something like "I don't mind the gays, I just don't want to see them kissing on an advert on the TV when I'm in the middle of dinner". You can often tell things about people by the discriminatory things they say.

This has gone way off topic, I don't mind as it's interesting to discuss on the off season when nothing is going on but I'll stop if it's annoying.

It absolutely is a thing, but I think there has to be a balance between pretending it isn’t a thing and seeing it absolute anywhere and everywhere in every conversation or scenario. Everyone should be judged on their content and character and not by things they can’t do anything about like their race or sexuality. A person might have come to the same conclusion even if they were a different race, gender or had a different sexual preference.

I can’t pretend I know what it’s like to walk in someone else’s shoes but I can try and emphasise as much as I can.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Back on topic, I think Son will bounce back next season assuming he recovers from his injury. 15-20 league goals I reckon.

 

[spurspinter1]

It absolutely is a thing, but I think there has to be a balance between pretending it isn’t a thing and seeing it absolute anywhere and everywhere in every conversation or scenario. Everyone should be judged on their content and character and not by things they can’t do anything about like their race or sexuality. A person might have come to the same conclusion even if they were a different race, gender or had a different sexual preference.

I can’t pretend I know what it’s like to walk in someone else’s shoes but I can try and emphasise as much as I can.

I can't dance with any of that, all comes from the right place.

There's always outliers / anomalies and no minority group is a monolith either. I thought race being brought in to the discussion of why Sanchez was getting booed was way off but I would say that the media's treatment of Sterling (particularly the mail / telegraph etc) was race related. It's not really for to me to say with any authority and I'm always happy to own up if I've missed context or am just outright wrong, generalisations can be dangerous things but we come to them for reasons, if only on an anecdotal level.

As for your post on Son's fitness (to hopefully finally steer this back on course!), I'm still baffled at the interview, we all want him to get back to full fitness and it's great determination to power through but it seemed to come at a detrimental to the team when we had other options like Richy.

I don't want to be too critical as I love Son and appreciate what he's done for the club but it seems a bit like a potential excuse on hindsight. Maybe that sounds harsh, I don't know, but it doesn't help the team to play if you know you aren't up to it. The debate has been done to death but this idea that he wasn't given a chance to do what he does well in Conte's system doesn't add up when Conte took him to his best goal scoring season in the league the season before. We all saw on particularly bad games that even the most basic touch was way off, in circumstances where it seemed nothing to do with positioning / instructions, it was just the basics of the game.

Either way it's a fresh start and as mentioned by others, Poste will be looking forward to working with him. I just don't want to be sat here in a seasons time after a disappointing campaign from Son reading an interview that say he wasn't fit but didn't communicate it with the medical staff,. Perhaps I've misunderstood the original interview.

 

[Bishop]

It absolutely is a thing, but I think there has to be a balance between pretending it isn’t a thing and seeing it absolute anywhere and everywhere in every conversation or scenario. Everyone should be judged on their content and character and not by things they can’t do anything about like their race or sexuality. A person might have come to the same conclusion even if they were a different race, gender or had a different sexual preference.

I can’t pretend I know what it’s like to walk in someone else’s shoes but I can try and emphasise as much as I can.

If you're other, then race is always present. It's literally the way people see and define you.

It would be lovely to live in a society where race and other such identifiers weren't so overt but that's not the utopian society we live in.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Jurgen the German]

I can't dance with any of that, all comes from the right place.

There's always outliers / anomalies and no minority group is a monolith either. I thought race being brought in to the discussion of why Sanchez was getting booed was way off but I would say that the media's treatment of Sterling (particularly the mail / telegraph etc) was race related. It's not really for to me to say with any authority and I'm always happy to own up if I've missed context or am just outright wrong, generalisations can be dangerous things but we come to them for reasons, if only on an anecdotal level.

As for your post on Son's fitness (to hopefully finally steer this back on course!), I'm still baffled at the interview, we all want him to get back to full fitness and it's great determination to power through but it seemed to come at a detrimental to the team when we had other options like Richy.

I don't want to be too critical as I love Son and appreciate what he's done for the club but it seems a bit like a potential excuse on hindsight. Maybe that sounds harsh, I don't know, but it doesn't help the team to play if you know you aren't up to it. The debate has been done to death but this idea that he wasn't given a chance to do what he does well in Conte's system doesn't add up when Conte took him to his best goal scoring season in the league the season before. We all saw on particularly bad games that even the most basic touch was way off, in circumstances where it seemed nothing to do with positioning / instructions, it was just the basics of the game.

Either way it's a fresh start and as mentioned by others, Poste will be looking forward to working with him. I just don't want to be sat here in a seasons time after a disappointing campaign from Son reading an interview that say he wasn't fit but didn't communicate it with the medical staff,. Perhaps I've misunderstood the original interview.

I definitely think there were racial/prejudicial undertones to some of the coverage Sterling got when he was at Emirates Marketing Project. There was another black player who got harsh coverage but don’t remember his name. The Mail got up on his grill for buying his mum a house but then Foden did exactly the same thing and he was lauded for it. You could see what they were getting at, stereotypical young black player throwing money around but a white player does it and gets the opposite treatment.

On to Son, I must admit I haven’t read the interview. I just saw the headline that he said he was playing with an injury. We’ll probably never know how serious it was as it’s not uncommon for players to play through injuries. I think we’d all agree he was well below par last season but I’m willing to give him a pass as it was his first bad season arguably since the 2015/16 season.

 

[glasgowspur]

I definitely think there were racial/prejudicial undertones to some of the coverage Sterling got when he was at Emirates Marketing Project. There was another black player who got harsh coverage but don’t remember his name. The Mail got up on his grill for buying his mum a house but then Foden did exactly the same thing and he was lauded for it. You could see what they were getting at, stereotypical young black player throwing money around but a white player does it and gets the opposite treatment.

On to Son, I must admit I haven’t read the interview. I just saw the headline that he said he was playing with an injury. We’ll probably never know how serious it was as it’s not uncommon for players to play through injuries. I think we’d all agree he was well below par last season but I’m willing to give him a pass as it was his first bad season arguably since the 2015/16 season.

Anyone earning that kind of money who doesn't buy his mum a home is a clam, with a capital CLAM.
Don’t know much about sterling, or Foden for that matter, but i think more of him for doing that and anyone making that out to be a negative is talking gonad*s.
Reading that over and it reads that I'm saying you're saying that, I'm not i mean the press.