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Ratings against man u

How may PL assists so you think Scholes has in total ? Take a guess.

what is this going to prove? what does his assist actually tell you about his passing within the confines of his role in the current united set up / system?

this is just like comparing Tom Huddlestone with lampard and saying thudd cant score. the comparison and context is off

actually let me take a guess.....he has 1 assist?
 
I think you guys arguing about two different things entirely. You guys need to differentiate between the direct and indirect assists. I think Fishwick is talking about DIRECT assists.

As far as im concerned whilst the last player touching the ball before the striker gets the assist it doesnt mean the likes of Scholes who is spraying it out wide hasnt contributed. thats why I like players like thudd and theyre important against stubborn teams. They help pull the opposition all over the place by spraying the passes about - scholes does this. Scholes yesterday was spraying the ball from left to right back to left etc which pulled our defence all over the place at times.
 
How may PL assists so you think Scholes has in total ? Take a guess.

Given how deep he plays these days probably not very many. But that doesn't mean his passes don't hurt teams. His passes out wide stretched us over and over again.
 
I think you guys arguing about two different things entirely. You guys need to differentiate between the direct and indirect assists. I think Fishwick is talking about DIRECT assists.

As far as im concerned whilst the last player touching the ball before the striker gets the assist it doesnt mean the likes of Scholes who is spraying it out wide hasnt contributed. thats why I like players like thudd and theyre important against stubborn teams. They help pull the opposition all over the place by spraying the passes about - scholes does this. Scholes yesterday was spraying the ball from left to right back to left etc which pulled our defence all over the place at times.


wel actually, i'm not really seeing any point here that i'm confusing

you are quite correct btw, he is talking about assists..but i'm not. he is implying that the lack of assists has something to provide in terms of evidence that scholes doesnt hurt teams. i disagree entirely with any notion that him not having assists provides any insight into what kind of passes he plays

if anything i get tired of scholes pinging FORWARD long range passes to people's bootlaces..its gets boring..add some mustard on that brick...and over head bicycle pass through 7 players zig zagging its way to the winger LOL
 
Scholes
Pirlo
Xabi Alonso
Modric

What do they have in common? They're all brick. Glad we've established that.
 
Really don't get the Scholes lovefest, if it wasn't for the fact that he plays for Manure, his career wouldn't have lasted and we would be talking about him like Joey Barton and Michael Brown. He is a nasty piece of brick thug, that year after year has made tackles that are purely vindictive and everyone goes "ohh poor Scholesy, he just mistimes tackles". And on the international stage, exactly what has he done? comparisons to Zidane or Pirlo are just embarrassing.

Re the game, people really do need to put some perspective on the ratings.

- 3 Goals scored away from home against Manure
- A first half that made Manure look very poor
- Between our record there, our record of collapsing against Manure and the pressure on AVB, the ability/nerve to ride out the second half says volumes. For all the people that every time we lose a game are quick to say we bottle it, you got to fudging stand up now and say we fudging didn't.
- Luck is really taking your chances, we took 3 of ours, they didn't, we deserve the points. To my point above, it's not like we scored 1, parked the bus and rode our luck for 70 minutes
- Benny, Parker, Kaboul, Ade were all not there.

Individuals

- Sandro/Debele beginning to look the part, seems to me Sandro is slowing finding more form
- Bale/Lennon, good games, not their very best, but the pace and threat we need to see when Spurs are to play well.
- Vert, may be tough to put him back in CB, anyone know if he can play or has played RB? very good buy.
- Defoe, was always going to be a tough night, but played a good part in both Bale and Dempsey's goals.
- Dempsey, thank fudge we finally have a midfielder that will attack the box and get rebounds/scraps
- Gallas was injured all of the 2nd half, so not willing to jump on his back, seemed AVB had more trust in an injured Gallas than any other option.

AVB - got the tactics right from the start, wish we cold learn to defend without sitting as deep as we did in 2nd half. fudging love the passion he shows, for me that must rub off on the players, that guy is not here just for a paycheck, it fudging matters to him.
 
Really don't get the Scholes lovefest, if it wasn't for the fact that he plays for Manure, his career wouldn't have lasted and we would be talking about him like Joey Barton and Michael Brown. He is a nasty piece of brick thug, that year after year has made tackles that are purely vindictive and everyone goes "ohh poor Scholesy, he just mistimes tackles". And on the international stage, exactly what has he done? comparisons to Zidane or Pirlo are just embarrassing.

You don't seriously believe that do you? That he has somehow fooled everyone into thinking he is a world class player by being in the right place at the right time? The guy's control, vision and passing technique were, and still are, outstanding. Don't think you'll get Joey Barton or Michael Brown with a roll call of greats like this lining up to gush his praises:

[video=youtube;wzg6cR0lONw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzg6cR0lONw[/video]
 
Really don't get the Scholes lovefest, if it wasn't for the fact that he plays for Manure, his career wouldn't have lasted and we would be talking about him like Joey Barton and Michael Brown.

One of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum.
 
My ratings:

Friedel - 5 - Should have saved Nani's goal and distribution was poor, but a couple of other good stops

Walker - 5 - Didn't offer a much going forward and his defensive positioning was quite sloppy in the second half
Gallas - 7 - Solid
Caulker - 7 - First major test for him and I thought he did quite well
Vertonghen - 8 - Excellent going forward and a cool, calm presence at the back

Lennon - First half 7, second half 5 - Caused them a lot of problems in the first half with his pace, did a reasonable defensive shift in the second but was hardly in the game
Dembele - First half 7, second half 4 - Got an assist, generally looked good, but was anonymous in the second half
Sandro - 8 - Big, imposing performance from a man fast becoming one of the best defensive midfielders in the country
Bale - First half 8, second half 4 - An excellent goal in the first half, as well as an assist, causing them plenty of problems. Set up a goal in the second half but I thought it was a bit selfish of him to shoot initially when Dempsey was free and he was a bit lucky that the ball rebounded kindly for him. Don't think he touched the ball again after that.

Dempsey - 6 - Was ok I suppose, scored the winner and was involved in a few of our other attacks in the first half, switched to a more defensive role in the second half
Defoe - First half 7, second half 5, or perhaps even a N/A seeing as he had absolutely no service. Good hold up play though to play Bale in for the winning goal, and also his run which took Evans out for Bale's goal too.

Subs:

Sigurdsson - 4 - Don't remember him doing anything
Huddlestone + Dawson - N/A

AVB - 7 - First half we were awesome, a great display of attacking intent that teams rarely have the balls to do at Old Trafford. With Giggs, Scholes, Carrick and Ferdinand all starting, he realised they would struggle with our fast players running at them and playing one-two passes, which we did to tremendous effect. I don't think they had a meaningful attempt on goal in the entire half. Second half was a different story and I think AVB was a little lucky to get the win. Obviously United were going to be a different proposition after Fergie had given them the hairdryer, and AVB's tactics were to do a "Chelsea against Barca" and put the entire team behind the ball. It was a very risky game, because if they'd got an equaliser we'd have really struggled to regain the momentum. Perhaps it was a little naive also, to think that Defoe could play the role that Drogba played in that game for Chelsea. I also thought he was a little slow to make his substitutions - they were all over us and we were hanging in by a thread, yet it took him until the 69th minute to make a change. I guess part of the problem is that the ideal players to be bringing on in that kind of situation were Parker and Livermore, yet neither were available.

The result has such a big bearing on the way people rate things. At the end of the day, the second half was a nervous performance, in which we couldn't keep the ball and rarely got possession in their half, we just hoofed it upfield whenever we won it off them. If Van Persie had scored that chance in the second half to equalise, or Sandro had been penalised for the handball, or Rooney's free-kick had been an inch further to the right, then all of you lot talking about the spirit, mental toughness and desire that won us the game would instead be calling the players a load of bottle jobs and chokers. As it is, we got the win. The line between success and failure is very thin in this game, and tbh, it's about time we got some luck against Man Utd.
 
scholes to use an ice hockey term is king of the second assist a bit like modric was for us, think that is why fergie wanted modric last season but had to bring scholes out of retirement.
 
Erm ... Alan Hansen criticised us on MOTD for playing so deep second half then confessed that's how even Liverpool had to play when they were under the cosh at OT.

It's just human nature to defend deep when you're under the kosh. They obviously must practice in training so they don't sit deep in real games, but you can't replicate defending for your lives at Old Trafford in training.
 
Friedel 7- Understandable that people want to see more of Lloris, but AVB ain't dropping Friedel if he keeps this form up I'm afraid.

Walker 6- Caught napping for the 2nd goal. Mix up with Lennon when Evra should have scored with a header. His defending has regressed worryingly.
Gallas 7- Thought he was decent. Played through pain too.
Caulker 7- Solid display. Looks dangerous from set pieces too. Should a real threat aerially with him, Kaboul and Vertonghen.
Vertonghen 8- Great marauding runs. Assured as ever!

Sandro 8- Beast mode!
Dembele- Excellent in first half.
Lennon 7- Dangerous in first half, largely annonymous in 2nd half.
Bale 8- Needed a big performance from him if we were going to win, and we got one! Involved in all 3 goals.
Dempsey 6.5- Apart from his goal, didn't feature too much.

Defoe 7- Excellent hold up play for 3rd goal. Good movement for 2nd goal.

Congratulations to AVB for becoming the first Spurs manager to win at OT in the premier league! Loved his celebration at the end! First half was great to see us really going for United's throat. Understandable and inevitable that we would be under the kosh in the 2nd half. Don't blame the team for defending deep as it's bloody hard to not do so when your defending for your lives at Old Trafford and haven't won there in over two decades. Teams don't plan on defending deep. Struggled to get any foothold in the game in the second half, disappointing we couldn't keep the ball better.

So when did people actually start to believe that we could win the game? It was about 88 minutes for once I thought we could do it.
 
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I think you guys arguing about two different things entirely. You guys need to differentiate between the direct and indirect assists. I think Fishwick is talking about DIRECT assists.

As far as im concerned whilst the last player touching the ball before the striker gets the assist it doesnt mean the likes of Scholes who is spraying it out wide hasnt contributed. thats why I like players like thudd and theyre important against stubborn teams. They help pull the opposition all over the place by spraying the passes about - scholes does this. Scholes yesterday was spraying the ball from left to right back to left etc which pulled our defence all over the place at times.

He was an attacking midfielder not a deep lying one, over time he should have notched up loads of assists, why would you not want to create chances?

The long or short cross field pass, is easier than the defense splitting forward pass .. You are passing most of the time to an unmarked man, so it does not have to be as precise or perfectly weighted .

It obviously can be useful, but it is not as potent as a slide rule one or a defense splitting one .

The two best passes of yesterdays game led to goals. One from JD and one from RVP.

The Defoe one , did not officially lead to an assists, but if a player can do them regularly, normally it would. So over time the assists stat would add up. It has not with Scholes and it is not because he does these wonderful passes that have led to saved shots that have been scored on the rebound.

If he could do them on a regular basis, as someone like Fabregas can, the assist would have piled up.
 
Hard to rate this match. I'd have been inclined to give artificially high ratings yesterday due to the joy of winning at OT for the first time in years but I think I can look a bit more objectively now. Great first half, not at great second but the resolve was outstanding.

Friedel- 7. Solid performance. Couldn't really do anything about the two goals, couple of good saves/holds.

Walker: 6. He's not playing very well at the moment...Very poor positioning and decision making on multiple occasions
Caulker: 7.5. As others have said, to go up and play like that at OT at his age was outstanding. Expect great things from him.
Gallas: 7. Looked injured for about 60 minutes but commanded well and made a few vital blocks and headers.
Vertonghen: 8. Great goal and attacking play but was occasionally a little lax in defence. Nani passed him a few times and the first goal came from his side but otherwise good performance.

Lennon: 7. Excellent first half, was essentially a second rb in the second. Would have liked to see a bit more countering from him and Bale in the second to relieve pressure.
Sandro: 7. Outstanding defensive performance, including that tackle to set up the second. Sometimes a little lax in possession.
Dembele: 7. Again, dominated the midfield in the first half, disappeared a little in the second.
Bale: 8.5. Goal and two assists, superb. If being a little critical, maybe could have done more to help relieve the pressure in the second half.
Dempsey: 6.5. Winner at OT, welcome to Spurs Dempsey. Needs to get more involved in play though, I've seen him do it at Fulham. Works very hard and is getting there.

Defoe: 7. Didn't get a goal but great run for the second and hold up play for the third. Just wish he was a few inches taller.

AVB: 9. We just won at OT! Good line-up, good tactics (in first half at least). Just the result he needed to get the press and some of our fans off his back.

Pretty much spot on imo.
 
Friedel - 6 - conceded 2 goals, reluctant off his line again (that Carrick corner almost went in, ffs) - few shots straight at him don't fail to deceive. Lloris HAS TO start against Villa based on form alone

Walker - 5 - poor
Caulker - 7 - fought hard
Gallas - 6 - struggled for pace
Vertonghen - 8 - MotM

Lennon - 6 - marginalised
Dembele - 7 - faded in the second half
Sandro - 8 - beast
Bale - 8 - fantastic goal and 'assist' for the 3rd

Defoe - 6 - predictably isolated
Dempsey - 6,5 - tap-in goal - little else

You have an agenda and you're looking very desperate now....which makes me happy as i like seeing a good old fashioned self destruction:lol:
 
fudging hell, just about 2 ratings per page on this thread, any more actual ratings before I tally up?
 
The line between success and failure is very thin in this game,

Yes, in this league, where players are so fit and athletic these days, the line is often very thin indeed, but it always comes down to goals. Just goals. When we finally beat Chelsea at the Lane it took that late Arjen Robben shot to miss, for us to get the 3 points. Here we needed Van Pervie to miss. He missed and we got 3 points. But it was the goals WE SCORED that enabled us to be in a position to win the game. Of course we were lucky that Van P missed, so what?

All the scores are well-reasoned but utterly MISERLY. Every player needs a +1 or even +2 just for being in a winning team at the Theatre of Nightmares. And the manager gets a big 11 out of 10, full stop.
 
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