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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
No one reads papers anymore, so their influence isn't that great.

Compare that to the tens of millions that access the pro-remain/Blairite BBC every day.

And though it has low readership (although more than it naturally would because it doesn't have a paywall), the Guardian is the de-facto ministry of propaganda for remain
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They still sell millions of copies a day and countless others read online. Including unpaid readers - Sun, Mail - they are probably reaching far more people than ever.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
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Look who is buying papers and running papers, they don't make any money so there must be another reason for doing this. The most likely reason is the power / influence they allow you to have, they still drive the agenda and people of power are scared of their influence.

(similar argument to tobacco adverts/ packaging, if it didn't do anything why are the companies fighting so hard against the changes)
 
Gutter Boy said:
No one reads papers anymore, so their influence isn't that great.

Compare that to the tens of millions that access the pro-remain/Blairite BBC every day.

And though it has low readership (although more than it naturally would because it doesn't have a paywall), the Guardian is the de-facto ministry of propaganda for remain
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It's worse.
People read narrative (I can't call it journalism) from those same companies, but it a very targeted way, as a snapshot (sometimes barely more than a headline).

There is a reduction in taking in various article's (either across a few different papers or just different opinion pieces in the same paper).

That is propoganda.
The only thing scarier than govt propoganda, is corporate propoganda.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Surely all the money being spent by those in power would know the ins and outs of PR and use them to their advantage? Probably not as remain spent 9m on a leaflet drop to every home in the UK and rolled out a load of celebs to back their campaign.

Cameron and remainers misjudged the mood of the country, arrogance utter arrogance.
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Spot on and to that you can add ignorance, they could not see with their own eyes that there was a huge number of people in the country who were sick to death of what they saw in their lives and wanted a change, the same ignorance was uttered when Trump won the States.
 
parklane1 said:
Spot on and to that you can add ignorance, they could not see with their own eyes that there was a huge number of people in the country who were sick to death of what they saw in their lives and wanted a change, the same ignorance was uttered when Trump won the States.
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Thats it and people can say what they like and be clever but it was arrogance and ignorance to not listen to the people with their concerns and then give then a vote that was ultimately their voice for the moment.

What is hilarious is how its now being put on those that voted leave as those in the wrong. Tories gave the vote, Tories gave the assurances it would e honoured...therefore it is up to them and the political masses to make it work. Its not John from Barkings job to work out.
 
So Mark Francois wants another Tory confidence vote on May, because when they had the last one, they didn't know she'd be working with Corbyn.

So, in light of new information, he wants another vote. Fancy that :D
 
parklane1 said:
Spot on and to that you can add ignorance, they could not see with their own eyes that there was a huge number of people in the country who were sick to death of what they saw in their lives and wanted a change, the same ignorance was uttered when Trump won the States.
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It's an interesting post. I believe people voted Leave for honourable reasons. Patriotic reasons and wanting change. That in reality Brexit simply offers a downgraded UK that is the same, is the issue. It doesn't offer anything positive. If it did people could outline what that is. For example, how might Brexit offer change to what people are "sick to death of"?

Brexit solves nothing - if we're honest - but creates new fresh problems, which is why our government is in paralysis (the core problems are the breakup of the UK, and loss of free trade). For us that means a slower economy and less investment which comes out as worse health care, worse investment into communities that need support. If we had not voted out we would have been done with Austerity. The nation has lost billions in investment and growth. Brexit planning has cost £40billion so far!

There needs to be another way to achieve change. A movement people can feel part of that promises a better future. Because Brexit is a retrograde step.
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
If they are actually fascists, not just people you dislike because they have different views to you. Is an easy thing to go around accusing people of it, just to try and stop a debate you dont like.
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Of course. And that's all I have said. I Have no desire to shut down debate.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It's an interesting post. I believe people voted Leave for honourable reasons. Patriotic reasons and wanting change. That in reality Brexit simply offers a downgraded UK that is the same, is the issue. It doesn't offer anything positive. If it did people could outline what that is. For example, how might Brexit offer change to what people are "sick to death of"?

Brexit solves nothing - if we're honest - but creates new fresh problems, which is why our government is in paralysis (breakup the UK, loss of free trade). For us a slower economy and less investment means worse health care, worse investment into communities that need support. If we had not voted out we would have been done with Austerity. The nation has lost billions in investment and growth. Brexit planning has cost £40billion so far!

There needs to be another way to achieve change. A movement people can feel part of that promises a better future. Because Brexit is a retrograde step.
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Localism over globalisation. Happiness over profit. Society over the economy.

Downgrading is only that if you look at it through a neo-liberal prism, where growth is GHod. Look at it from a human point of view instead and its actually moving to a more advance state
 
parklane1 said:
Spot on and to that you can add ignorance, they could not see with their own eyes that there was a huge number of people in the country who were sick to death of what they saw in their lives and wanted a change, the same ignorance was uttered when Trump won the States.
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Ok I can't argue with much or any of that. But how does leaving the EU give us that change?
 
Gutter Boy said:
Localism over globalisation. Happiness over profit. Society over the economy.

Downgrading is only that if you look at it through a neo-liberal prism, where growth is GHod. Look at it from a human point of view instead and its actually moving to a more advance state
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Look at it from the perspective of paying nurses and teachers then. Where will you make up the money from lost trade just to maintain what we have now? Let alone improve things.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rnment-can-compromise-says-minister-live-news

Barnier says EU would refuse trade talks with UK after no-deal unless backstop addressed
Speaking in Dublin, Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, also said that, if the UK were to leave without a deal, the EU would refuse to open trade talks until it got assurances on the Irish border, on citizens’ rights and money.

If the UK were to leave the EU without a deal, let me be very, very clear. We would not discuss anything with the UK until there is an agreement for Ireland and Northern Ireland, as well as for citizens’ rights and the financial settlement.

These are the three issues covered by the withdrawal agreement. So, in other words, Barnier is saying that even if the UK were to leave without signing the withdrawal agreement, it would have to accepted the pledges in that agreement, including on the backstop, if it ever wanted a trade deal with the EU.

Barnier and his fellow EU leaders have made this point before, but perhaps not as bluntly as Barnier did just now.

Some Brexiters think that it would be acceptable for the UK to trade permanently with the EU on WTO terms. But, in the event of a no-deal scenario, most Brexiters would want to UK and the EU to strike a free trade deal, which is why the Barnier threat is significant.
 
DTA said:
Ok I can't argue with much or any of that. But how does leaving the EU give us that change?
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Two things

(1) i do not post in here as much as i use to because its the same backwards and forwards opinions by the same folks and it goes nowhere, and i do not want to repeat it all once again.

(2) However in response to your question, we will have to wait and see what happens when we do leave ( because until then NO ONE really knows what will happen).
 
SpurMeUp said:
Look at it from the perspective of paying nurses and teachers then. Where will you make up the money from lost trade just to maintain what we have now? Let alone improve things.
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Making big business and rich people actually pay tax for a change
 
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