***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur vs. Saudi Sportswashing Machine***

[Pirate55]

And so she does. To make matters worse Stansted was a brickshow, flight delayed 3 hours and just at the airport car park now. I hate you Tottenham because I love you.

One random minor thing I noticed on one of their corners. Maybe it’s common and I just haven’t looked out for it. On their corner, we had all 11 players in the box. Great in that it gives us numbers but we had no outball so the ball just came back at us when we cleared. Is that what we usually do?

Yes and it's a stupid tactic imo. Son is a useless defender and more of an impediment to us there as has been shown on many occasions.
We would be much better served with him on the halfway line. This would both give us a possible outball and take at least one more of their players away to mark him. His pace offers us a significant threat on the counter if a ball is cleared near him.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It’s because we are so deep. It’s difficult for us to be able go into tackles as most of our challenges are made within 20 yards of our penalty box. If the manager got the team 20 yards up the pitch then it would immediately look better.

I hear that, but when i look at our mainstays at the back, if we did actually play 20 yards up the pitch would we be ripped to shreds in behind?

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don’t boo, but I can understand it.

It’s wrong to dismiss the booers as the ‘prawn sandwich phalanx’ (not that you did, but Steff seemed to). I was in the North Stand and there were plenty booing around me. Ordinary supporters can shell out upwards of a hundred quid on a match day now, once ticket, transport and food and drink are factored in. When they see one-dimensional football played with middling effort, along with seasoned professionals making basic (and repeated) errors, then they are well within their rights, I think, to express their opinion.

There was booing, but it wasn't the most toxic booing that's ever been heard. There is certainly always a mumbled trepidation in the air when Sanchez, Emerson, Dier or Lloris make passes along the backline, whilst when Kane, Son or Bentancur get on the ball an excited 'go on my son' feel....this is sadly what past experience does to fans.
When most notably Lloris and Dier kept misplacing passes or controlling the ball poorly (Dier was horrific yesterday from about 20 mins onwards in this regard) the groans were automatic and imo totally understandable).

We were willing the team on overall during the match

 

[Finney Is Back]

On Dier, fair enough, I'm aware it's a minority opinion. But I think with time, it's becoming clearer why I've had that opinion for years now - imo, he is utterly mediocre, and always will be. A Connor Coady without the passing or the leadership.

On Sanchez, nah, I fully disagree there. He's utterly brick and one of the greatest mistakes we've made in on the market in a decade, purely because he cost so much and has lasted so long despite obvious flaws that every manager has recognized - Mourinho literally took the tinkle out of him on camera for his terrible passing, telling him he brick himself when given the ball.

Every single defender in the Premier League, and I am not joking - every single one - is better than him on the ball, and the majority off the ball. He cripples us when he plays, and given Romero picks up knocks a lot, he plays far too much for a club our size. If he was seventh- choice, wheeled out for a Carling Cup game every year, fair enough - but he starts far too often.

I’m not sure it is a minority opinion, I think it’s probably 50-50. At present he is being hidden as the central, generally spare man defensively in the back three. He doesn’t look terrible as there probably isn’t a semi competent centre back in the world who would look terrible in that system. We’ve needed better for years but had other even bigger gaping holes in the squad. We’re now finally starting to get to the point where the other positions have improved and it is becoming a priority however. I’m hoping that at some point the manager will adapt his system a little and pair Romero with a new left sided centre back, but one who has pace and physicality and can pull out to the left and be reasonably comfortable defending one on one (somebody like N’dingdonga would be perfect) and then have Bissouma as a pure holding midfield player, slotting into the middle defensively when either centre back has to fan out wide. This should still allow the fullbacks to get high up the pitch but also allows us to have the numbers in midfield and/or the ability to play a creative player centrally.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We played well early on but in the 2nd half when they needed to step up we offered nothing, didn't create anything, didn't press or even look like they were trying to get back into it.

We don’t press as we’re not coached to. Conte seems to have one way of playing at the moment and it is to sit off the opposition and hope to score via a counter attack or a long ball over the top.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It was interesting to see our players "free up their game" with 5 minutes to go.

Suddenly Bissouma was spinning around with drag backs and driving forwards, not playing safe.

Players were charging forwards with intent, desperate to make a difference.

A stark contrast to the rest of the game where we try to do the right thing and lay it off and play nice... a massive difference when the players TRULY wanted to score.

Or is it simply that the shackles have been taken off by the manager at that point?

 

[glorygloryeze]

We played well early on but in the 2nd half when they needed to step up we offered nothing, didn't create anything, didn't press or even look like they were trying to get back into it.

I agree we played well before their goals (i watched Sky Sports highlights of the game and actually the football played to create those changes in first half was pretty good) but to say we offered nothing in second half is a bit strong. Saudi Sportswashing Machine sat back and kept us at arms length and forced us to hoof it long to Kane and Son and their CB giants lapped it up. When we actually did try to get in behind our final ball was poor from both Sessegnon AND Perisic. Perisic and Kane both missed sitters as well.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine were very solid and i'm sure we've won away games in similar fashion: the main difference between the teams was a) the finishing and b) the brainfarts in defence

 

[glorygloryeze]

We don’t press as we’re not coached to. Conte seems to have one way of playing at the moment and it is to sit off the opposition and hope to score via a counter attack or a long ball over the top.

I think Conte has shown that he can implement a press in the past. I don't think on the whole we have the players to press like we used to have; Kane and Son can't even think about doing a press for a start and if your forwards can't press it's almost idiotic to try and implement it as a viable strategy imo.

Not that this is an excuse for the limp, non-engaging displays seen at, say Man Utd or Arsenal btw

 

[MKSpur]

The corner thing is normal
I hate it
Imagine having sin up near half way. That means they need at least two players out there to deal with him if we win it

Not like he'd win a header either!

 

[glasgowspur]

I hear that, but when i look at our mainstays at the back, if we did actually play 20 yards up the pitch would we be ripped to shreds in behind?

The first goal and a very good chance before that came from us pushing up and leaving room in behind.

 

[Mikey10]

I’m not sure it is a minority opinion, I think it’s probably 50-50. At present he is being hidden as the central, generally spare man defensively in the back three. He doesn’t look terrible as there probably isn’t a semi competent centre back in the world who would look terrible in that system. We’ve needed better for years but had other even bigger gaping holes in the squad. We’re now finally starting to get to the point where the other positions have improved and it is becoming a priority however. I’m hoping that at some point the manager will adapt his system a little and pair Romero with a new left sided centre back, but one who has pace and physicality and can pull out to the left and be reasonably comfortable defending one on one (somebody like N’dingdonga would be perfect) and then have Bissouma as a pure holding midfield player, slotting into the middle defensively when either centre back has to fan out wide. This should still allow the fullbacks to get high up the pitch but also allows us to have the numbers in midfield and/or the ability to play a creative player centrally.

Dier and Lloris were highlighted as the weak points on MOTD2. Callum Wilson actually said in his post-match interview that they were aware of how Lloris likes to rush out (not that he did for the first) and they targetted this, resulting in the first goal.

They did an analysis segment on Dier and Lloris’s woeful distribution, and on the difference in intensity levels between the two teams.

It was all fairly damning, and pretty depressing.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think Conte has shown that he can implement a press in the past. I don't think on the whole we have the players to press like we used to have; Kane and Son can't even think about doing a press for a start and if your forwards can't press it's almost idiotic to try and implement it as a viable strategy imo.

Not that this is an excuse for the limp, non-engaging displays seen at, say Man Utd or Arsenal btw

There is still a press left in kane and son.
Not a full geggenpress or even a poch style press, but they can and do press.
For me the issue is more that nobody behind them backs it up, by pass those two and you have a lot space in the middle until you reach Bentancur and peh.
Since i think stuttgart I've noticed Bentancur splitting kane and son and chasing the keeper down while kane and son try mark the out ball and we force them to go long.
But then we muck up the transition.

 

[MKSpur]

As mentioned I took my 9 year old to his first game, pretty sexy he got to witness our first home defeat of the season.

I still think we were the better team for the first 30 minutes without being clinical enough to take the lead. We then managed to perform football suicide to take the game away from ourselves. Even after nicking one back we didn't so enough to force the issue but I didn't think the atmosphere was toxic and think I was more tuned in to this being sober and conscious what the little man would hear.

For his part he came away having enjoyed being part of the proper game atmosphere, I'll never forget his face when we first walked out to seat where the full stadium just hits you.

 

[MKSpur]

In a by no means salty way why can we have VAR and goaline tec but not an independent time keeper and publish the time being stopped on the scoreboard? Ultimately it's a sport that we pay to watch yet the added time is so subjective it's ridiculous. Feigning injury has always been an embarrassing part of the game, but surely we want fans to see the game in play and teams be given the opportunity to play?

 

[glorygloryeze]

As mentioned I took my 9 year old to his first game, pretty sexy he got to witness our first home defeat of the season.

I still think we were the better team for the first 30 minutes without being clinical enough to take the lead. We then managed to perform football suicide to take the game away from ourselves. Even after nicking one back we didn't so enough to force the issue but I didn't think the atmosphere was toxic and think I was more tuned in to this being sober and conscious what the little man would hear.

For his part he came away having enjoyed being part of the proper game atmosphere, I'll never forget his face when we first walked out to seat where the full stadium just hits you.

Snap! Sound like me seven years ago when i first took mine (and same opposition, same result...but same enjoyment for him having just been happy to have attended )

 

[MKSpur]

Snap! Sound like me seven years ago when i first took mine (and same opposition, same result...but same enjoyment for him having just been happy to have attended )

He was a star, a real coming of age moment was when he booted a balloon in the pub after and said that's probably further than Lloris can kick it!

 

[billyiddo]

In a by no means salty way why can we have VAR and goaline tec but not an independent time keeper and publish the time being stopped on the scoreboard? Ultimately it's a sport test we pay to watch yet the added time is so subjective it's ridiculous. Feigning injury has always been an embarrassing part of the game, but surely we want fans to see the game in play and teams be given the opportunity to play?

The time wasting in the second half was ridiculous and the ref was too weak to put a stop to it.

 

[MKSpur]

The time wasting in the second half was ridiculous and the ref was too weak to put a stop to it.

Agree but he should stop his watch and then the pantomime becomes irrelevant. Imagine a booking being given for failing to leave by the shortest route, causing a second yellow so the sub can't be made! But just giving the time back means genuine or not the opportunity is the same for all to play.

 

[DeanoAustin]

As mentioned I took my 9 year old to his first game, pretty sexy he got to witness our first home defeat of the season.

I still think we were the better team for the first 30 minutes without being clinical enough to take the lead. We then managed to perform football suicide to take the game away from ourselves. Even after nicking one back we didn't so enough to force the issue but I didn't think the atmosphere was toxic and think I was more tuned in to this being sober and conscious what the little man would hear.

For his part he came away having enjoyed being part of the proper game atmosphere, I'll never forget his face when we first walked out to seat where the full stadium just hits you.

Had that with my lad at Wembley a few years ago and it's absolutely magical (even if Spurs f**ked it by losing 3-1 to Wolves). Something I guess we take for granted. It always reminds me of the Bobby Robson quote which I absolutely love:

“What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.”

 

[DubaiSpur]

Poor once the gifts were given today, and it is clear that many are riding a redline of fatigue and too many minutes in their legs and bodies. It is funny watching the same players get dug out by the same people over and over again. For me, the truth is a little more detailed than comfortable finger-pointing. A conversation for another day no doubt…

1) Offer the team support and energy. Too often I see our home fan base throw their toys out of the pram when something goes wrong. The booing at HT was pathetic an embarrassment. Get behind them. This has been the worst week in many months under Conte, and we need to reverse it fast. Won’t be helped by that sort of toxic s h i t.

It's interesting you mention that, because...

4) We cannot hide on the pitch. Players need to step up and want the ball..

...this is a big part of it.

Players need to look like they care, need to look like they're switched on, that they're trying and are willing to be brave. Do that, and you get backing from the fans.

As even you point out, they don't do that. This lot are literally terrified of the ball, and at the same time, spend large periods of the game thinking that they only have to show up to win for some bizarre reason. Except when we play away to our rivals, when they all turn into cowards waiting to be beaten.

You think the crowd don't see that?

Lloris comes out like a macaron, gets beaten to the ball, falls over in desperation trying to win a free kick that was never going to be given - instead of busting a gut to get back to the goalline, the lumbering Dier puts his hands up and starts yelling at the ref to give the foul.

Lloris punts a hopeless ball out to Sessegnon, the kid puts in the weakest aerial challenge I've seen, gets pathetically beaten to the ball, they score two seconds later.

Players earning 200k a week stroll around without putting in any effort or demonstrating that being repeatedly outplayed by the opponent hurts them in any way. The fans pay upwards of a hundred quid a game amidst spirallling inflation, energy prices and economic woes, and show up in storm conditions, rain or shine..

...and get told *they* are the ones that have to pick this spineless lot up, because they can't do it themselves.

Not the way it works, mate. The players have to look like they give a brick, and too many of them don't. The fans cannot provide self-respect and pride if they don't have it themselves, and it isn't the players who go home being laughed at by the opposition - the defeat's out of their heads in half an hour and they're out giving interviews to the Guardian in the next week on how they've changed, honest (looking at you, Dier and Lenglet). The fans are the ones who have to take the stick on the way home, in the pub, in the office the next day.

To expect them to give this lot the spine they're lacking on top of it is unfair.

You remember the Poch days, when the fans and the players had a connection? Why do you think that was, mate? I'd say it's because we played brave, we looked brave, we fought for the shirt and for each other. That resonated in the stands, even if we lost.

This lot do none of that and expect unqualified support and adoration for shanking simple passes and conceding stupid goals. Not happening - didn't happen under the abominable Mou, won't happen under Conte. Players need to buck up here.