• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Monaco***

Sorry @afsoc4life how do you quantify when a player "looks like he doesn't care"?
What was it about Kane that you saw yesterday that you haven't seen before that made you think that?

Are you sure you aren't letting emotions after a bad result get the better of you??

Kane: He was one of the front players didnt look like they gave a ish. The old Kane never used to give up on some balls - this one yesterday did. I would wonder what is on his mind. Watch Kane from two seasons ago. I dont know if he is tired. If he is, I dont know how internally tired players are handled. Perhaps he has said he needs a break and they persist in playing him leading him to looking like this.
 
A disappointing result last night. I think it's as simple as us defending like qunts for the first 30 mins and I don't think Alli alongside Dier was the right call for this particular occasion. A big positive was Dembele coming on and looking good to go for the next game. I hope Poch goes with 2 from Dembele/Dier/Wanyama in all games from now on (except maybe early rounds of the league cup).

That being said, we had several good chances we didn't take. Atmosphere wise, I thought it was pretty good considering the team let us down in the first half hour. There were pockets of noise, at some points the noise was tremendous. I think if we hadn't have got off to such a poor start, the place would have been rocking.

I was disappointed to see so many people start leaving around the 85 minute mark -- however, when I got outside at the end of the game, I could sorta see why. Wembley is a bit of a pain in the arse to get away from. But I'd still never leave a game that early, we were only 1 goal behind!
 
I don't think Harry looks like he doesn't care, but I do think he looks like he knows he struggling.
A striker can get away with it if his general game goes off the boil but he puts the ball away, but Harry isn't doing that.
In his defence, we aren't creating great chances at the moment.
They seem to be being asked to play a slightly different game this season and it's not clicked yet.
Hopefully it will before the confidence drains from them.
 
Kane: He was one of the front players didnt look like they gave a ish. The old Kane never used to give up on some balls - this one yesterday did. I would wonder what is on his mind. Watch Kane from two seasons ago. I dont know if he is tired. If he is, I dont know how internally tired players are handled. Perhaps he has said he needs a break and they persist in playing him leading him to looking like this.

I think Kane has proven himself enough for us to give him the benefit of the doubt when he has a bad game.
Personally i think the Monaco team handled him (and our team as a whole) well from their point of view. The larger pitch perhaps made his inherent lack of pace stand out more.
Also, he might be tired or tiring - but that is TOTALLY different to not caring, which h very much did imo, see his reaction to his shoot straight at the keeper after Janssen created for him in the last 10 mins. Dammit he cares alright!
 
I don't think Harry looks like he doesn't care, but I do think he looks like he knows he struggling.
A striker can get away with it if his general game goes off the boil but he puts the ball away, but Harry isn't doing that.
In his defence, we aren't creating great chances at the moment.
They seem to be being asked to play a slightly different game this season and it's not clicked yet.
Hopefully it will before the confidence drains from them.

I think that is 100% correct mate.
 
We lost to a good team (although there are lots of much better teams in the comp) and hopefully we learn and progress. No need to panic just yet, even if we haven't been good so far this season.

Some points that struck me.

1. Kane is struggling and seeing as we have back-up I think his title as an 'undroppable' needs to be challenged and he needs to sit there for a couple of games and get his teeth into something again (whilst also building his sharpness)

2. Alli is not a CM and is not good enough to play there. He lacks discipline, a first touch and can be lose with the ball in there. He got outclassed yesterday and it was a massive error playing him there last night in a game where fine margins can turn the tide.

3. Poch should not have try to bulldoze lamela into the team. He needed to be ruthless and drop him or son depending on match needs and form. This unbalanced the side and meant we looked lost for the first 45.

4. Wanyama currently is much more deserving of the DMC spot if it is a pick between him and dier. He has been good this season whilst Dier has largely looked poor in every game bar Stoke. Similarly to kane he looks off the pace and low on confidence with the ball. Personally I think we should have gone with the same team as Stoke, however last night wanyama deserved the start considerably more. Poch seems to have favourites and I hope he can see that currently dier isn't in good form and could use a few weeks on the bench.

5. Janssen looks fine to me and will be a good prem player. He's strong, clever and clearly is a good finisher. Judging him coming into games for 20mins isn't a good barometer. He is a different animal to soldado and is an asset even when not scoring. I would be keen to start him next game instead of kane.

6. Selection wise and tactically Poch didnt help himself last night. In fact in some big games he has made some poor decisions over the pAst few years, but seems to have always learnt the lession.

This is just the way I saw it but we need to improve considerably to get out of this group.
I agree with just about every word of this post. I think the main reason we lost yesterday is because of a poor team selection by Pochettino. He has shown each of our PL opponents the respect to play 2 defensive minded players in midfield and then suddenly decides that he will abandon that and play with only one against a team who are better than any team we have faced so far in the PL. I do not understand that at all, especially as Monaco's strength is in passing or dribbling through the first press and playing on the break. I think it would be fine to end up with Eriksen, Lamela, Son and Alli on the pitch towards the end if we are chasing the game, but starting with all four of those was a mistake.

Alli is a great player who makes things happen, but he isn't disciplined in a positional sense and he will always surrender possession on several occasions in any game because of the fact that he is trying to make things happen. The key is to ensure that he is doing those things further up the pitch. By dropping him into Dembele's role it both diminished his potential of making things happen in good areas and weakened us defensively. We have two players fit in Wanyama and Dembele who can play that role, there was therefore no need to drop Alli back into that position.
 
I wouldn't underestimate the possible psychological effects of last season's dénouement, in particular the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game — a massive fall from a great height that there was no direct opportunity to recover from, made all the worse by the fact it was the culmination of a series of self-inflicted wounds (and further compounded for some of them by their part in England's humiliation by Iceland in the Euros). It's interesting that Kane was quick to forestall a specific question on the issue by volunteering it as fact that the squad are mentally strong. I suspect there will have been pointed discussions about it, and I think Pochettino may well have a real-life mental coaching issue on his hands at the moment with one or two in his young squad.
 
This is the problem we will play there next season so no more excuses from anybody at Spurs.
Jan was woeful for the first goal!
Harry has to get his act together.
And Levy need s to look at the transfer policy buying a Sissoko and Janssen for around £46m but letting the 'pacey' Batshuayi slip through his grasp (allegedly) £30m!
While I admit he was poor, Davies was worse and Lamela was far worse..... I think you are apportioning the blame for that goal on completely the wrong player.
 
First half was shocking, we woke up only after conceding the 2nd goal. It was almost as if the players were intimidated by the big crowd. We played without an idea, creativity and had poor movement. Things improved in the second half but we just weren't clinical enough with the chances we created, which is something that will need to improve on if we want to progress from the group.
Couple of things stood out for me. I thought we missed Rose bombing down that left site and putting in dangerous crosses - we looked most threatening when we stretched the game.
Kane looked like he had 100kgs of weights strapped on to him and was yet again playing too far up the pitch. His finish in the 79th minute says it all about his current form. Should definitely be rested for the next game or two.
I disagree slightly here..... I thought we started the match as the better team. Up until the goal that Monaco scored on the break it looked to me as though we were likely to win the game comfortably. The goal scored against the run of play then knocked us for 6. The problem (as a few have alluded to) was that the players Pochettino picked left us very open to being counter attacked and counter attacking is what Monaco do very well. Still, had Lamela not had a brain fart and done something stupid as most of our team were getting forward for our own attack, then we probably would've gone on and won that game.
 
I don't think we can blame the size of Wembley pitch for the result, but here's something I noticed that i'd like to hear some opinion on.

There were a fair few times where the Monaco midfield seemed to waltz quite easily through us and onto the defence. Granted they have some technically gifted players (Moutinho) and one of our DM's was the ill-disciplined Alli. HOWEVER, did the size of stadium and pitch just contribute to our players being those few yards further away from each other than usual?? Did subconsciously the players wander apart a little compared to the tight pitch at WHL where they "feel" closer to each other in the middle?
Those extra yards seemed to show as Monaco somehow got to the majority of loose balls before us and seemed to evade our desperate lunges (Dier). Tackles that it feels we would've nailed at a smaller WHL. Be interested to know what our successful tackles ratio was compared to similar games at WHL.
The way I saw it was that Monaco are more adept than most teams we face at playing through a press, either with a good combination of passes or by the player on the ball, beating his man. All of their players had good control, ability on the ball and trust in their teammates to be able to receive a pass even when under pressure. Usually if a team breaks through our first press this isn't a huge issue because we have Dier and Dembele or Wanyama as good physical presences shielding the defence. They can generally stand up and shepherd the opposing player into an area where they will not cause us any damage or if left exposed one on one they can dive in and make a tackle as a last resort.

However with Alli playing in this position instead of Dembele/Wanyama our defensive shape was extremely different. If you look a the way players naturally play - Dier, Dembele and Wanyama all naturally like to be behind the ball and have the game play out in front of them. This gives them a massive defensive advantage in terms of the positions they take up if we lose the ball anywhere on the pitch. Alli is completely different in that he likes to get beyond the ball. I thought that the general position that Alli took up last night was quite a bit further forward than the position typically taken up by Dembele or Wanyama. This meant that our attacking play could end up being quite congested but, more crucially, on the few occasions when Monaco broke through our press they were instantly in 3 on 3 in good central positions against Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Dier. The first goal was a good example of this.... Irrespective of the fact that Lamela had a brain fart and took a terrible option, it seemed to me that Alli had got himself ahead of the ball to join in the potential counter attack. I don't think this is something that you really ever see Dembele or Wanyama do. It is also why I wouldn't play Alli in Dembele's position at this stage of his career in any situation other than one when we're chasing the game in the last half an hour or so.

For me it is the manager who should be taking the blame for yesterday's result. It's painful for me to say that because I love the man and think he is the best thing to happen to our club for many years, but last night he got it wrong and played into Monaco's hands with his team selection.
 
Last edited:
Quite simply, we still arent good enough.

Alright beating the Stoke Citys and Palaces of the premiership, but not clinical enough against better opposition. Not too confident of reaching the knockout stages if we cant win our 'home' matches
I don't think home or away really matter to us. We're just as likely to win or lose regardless of where we play. I'm hoping the team will start clicking by the next match.
 
Kane and Alli our worst two performers? Ye gods. Kane's striking sharpness in front of goal that was wanting but his approach play last night was nothing less than excellent. As for Alli, which game were you watching? Far from being one of our worst he was probably our best player on the night.

Yeah, they were probably our worst players, imo. Kane's 'approach play' was sub-par given that the larger amount of space exposed his lack of pace a bit, and given that Janssen showed more energy and drive in a few minutes than Kane did all game. Alli didn't do much of anything consistently for me, and we looked better when he was moved out of midfield for Dembele - he subsequently tired even in his advanced role, and overall had a bit of a stinker, imo.
 
Yeah, they were probably our worst players, imo. Kane's 'approach play' was sub-par given that the larger amount of space exposed his lack of pace a bit, and given that Janssen showed more energy and drive in a few minutes than Kane did all game. Alli didn't do much of anything consistently for me, and we looked better when he was moved out of midfield for Dembele - he subsequently tired even in his advanced role, and overall had a bit of a stinker, imo.
I thought Alli was our brightest player in the first half. The problem was that he was in completely the wrong position and moving him into Dembele's role unbalanced the team in both an attacking and defensive sense. Personally I blame Pochettino more than Alli for that mistake.

I don't think a manager should ever shift players around to unnatural positions to try to accommodate a specific player/players. Every England manager since Hoddle has made that mistake IMO. I didn't expect it to be one that Pochettino would make. I get his reasoning with Eriksen and Son playing so well against Stoke, Alli getting back on the scoresheet again and Lamela being so good against Monaco last time, but one of them should've made way for Dembele or Wanyama (I would've gone with sacrificing Lamela simply because the other three were those in possession of the shirt from the Stoke game where we did well).
 
I thought Alli was our brightest player in the first half. The problem was that he was in completely the wrong position and moving him into Dembele's role unbalanced the team in both an attacking and defensive sense. Personally I blame Pochettino more than Alli for that mistake.

I don't think a manager should ever shift players around to unnatural positions to try to accommodate a specific player/players. Every England manager since Hoddle has made that mistake IMO. I didn't expect it to be one that Pochettino would make. I get his reasoning with Eriksen and Son playing so well against Stoke, Alli getting back on the scoresheet again and Lamela being so good against Monaco last time, but one of them should've made way for Dembele or Wanyama (I would've gone with sacrificing Lamela simply because the other three were those in possession of the shirt from the Stoke game where we did well).

That's probably true. Still, as you say, the decision to play Alli next to Dier was logical, but in this case it sadly backfired.
 
How we didn't win that I'll never know.. At the very least we deserved a point.

Complete domination bar a couple of sucker punches. I rate our chances to do them in on their turf.

Onward and upward, our support sounded bloody unreal!
Couldn't agree more. On the whole we were the better team and had better and more chances. If Kane doesn't shoot at the keeper and we don't muck up the clearance of the cross that led to their second goal, the result would have been different. So to judge the entire match on 10 seconds of football is ridiculous. I never understood that. Everyone looks at the result and not the game as a whole. A player scores a goal, but is brick the rest of the match, and all of a sudden he's MoM. A team scores on their only two chances and never troubles us otherwise, while we put them under pressure most of the game and miss several opportunities, and all of sudden we're crap. Seriously, people need to watch and judge on the entire game, not just what the scoreline says.
 
I thought he was over-rated for the fee, was too one footed, came sideways into central areas and did not punch his fee. As a young player I hoped he would be more effective and perhaps be more direct or use his undoubted skill to actually go past a player in time.

I know he can finish, does have a good eye for a pass but isn't effective enough in most games, but in few he can be exceptional. How long do we give him? Poch ruthlessly got rid of Lennon, but Lennon was repeatedly outstanding on that pitch for Spurs and England. If you don't believe me ask Evra.

It is about how we play now, we can't wait for the team and players to develop tomorrow, ad infinitum.
I was actually making an analogy of Lamela to Janssen. Janssen needs time, just like Erik did. Who are you writing about ? Coz I'm fine with Lamela, and the post I was quoting was talking about Kane and Lamela.
 
Back