Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
And When Nagelsmann can’t play high tempo high press with a midfield that includes Sissoko or winks?
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Next Manager?
- Thread starter StephenH
- Start date
And When Nagelsmann can’t play high tempo high press with a midfield that includes Sissoko or winks?
We'd sign players so that he could. Most of RB Leipzigs transfers are in the £10m-£20m bracket. He could sign the same sort of players, or more expensive, than he has before
Contrast with Jose who is used to having the best of the best
Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
Hojberg Dele and GLC can play a high press, Ndombele too potentially
Ha! Forgot that!
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
Good to see some people are supportive and remain confident in Jose. No reason to dismiss that stance as the wrong one, whilst an opposing view isn’t necessarily due to a longstanding agenda or knee jerk reaction to one game.
I was supportive of Jose’s appointment. I loved Poch and was torn as I feel we owe him a lot and he raised expectations. I thought Jose mid season would be a shot in the arm for a squad that appeared to have lost belief. With the injuries to Son and Kane, last season was acceptable and an improvement on where he found us.
Style of football is not as important to me as results. Whilst I took the question as an ‘if and when he goes, who would you like’, I’m not sure it’s realistic to think he would go now. Maybe it depends on your half full, half empty view.
So the positives would be some good results against top teams, the Kane and Sonny partnership, the signings of Reguillon and Hojbjerg. The tough love effect and turnaround of Ndombele. The cup runs and being in touch for fourth. Other than Liverpool we haven’t been tonked.
The negatives for me is the approach. Not aesthetically but the fact it doesn’t change regardless of the situation - we’ve let leads slip against lesser teams, we haven’t gone at teams once going behind. Our cup runs are a little skewed with a few average performances against teams from lower divisions.
I’m sure judgement on Mourinho by Levy will be reserved until the end of the season, but it’s not unreasonable to question our trajectory as we approach a big couple of weeks. From what I’ve seen, I just don’t have the confidence or blind faith that everything will be ok, just because of Mourinho’s track record - although it would be fudging sexy for us to be the only club that he has managed to pick up a trophy or qualify for CL at! I really hope I’m wrong but I feel it will require a few mourinho masterclasses to pick up the results we need without Kane in the next couple of weeks.
I was supportive of Jose’s appointment. I loved Poch and was torn as I feel we owe him a lot and he raised expectations. I thought Jose mid season would be a shot in the arm for a squad that appeared to have lost belief. With the injuries to Son and Kane, last season was acceptable and an improvement on where he found us.
Style of football is not as important to me as results. Whilst I took the question as an ‘if and when he goes, who would you like’, I’m not sure it’s realistic to think he would go now. Maybe it depends on your half full, half empty view.
So the positives would be some good results against top teams, the Kane and Sonny partnership, the signings of Reguillon and Hojbjerg. The tough love effect and turnaround of Ndombele. The cup runs and being in touch for fourth. Other than Liverpool we haven’t been tonked.
The negatives for me is the approach. Not aesthetically but the fact it doesn’t change regardless of the situation - we’ve let leads slip against lesser teams, we haven’t gone at teams once going behind. Our cup runs are a little skewed with a few average performances against teams from lower divisions.
I’m sure judgement on Mourinho by Levy will be reserved until the end of the season, but it’s not unreasonable to question our trajectory as we approach a big couple of weeks. From what I’ve seen, I just don’t have the confidence or blind faith that everything will be ok, just because of Mourinho’s track record - although it would be fudging sexy for us to be the only club that he has managed to pick up a trophy or qualify for CL at! I really hope I’m wrong but I feel it will require a few mourinho masterclasses to pick up the results we need without Kane in the next couple of weeks.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I think it's fairly likely. The pandemic will have a lot of downstream effects we can't quite predict for years, possibly decades to come. But one of the most vulnerable aspects of modern football seems to me to be the all-aspect high press, which relies on a combination of deep, expensive squads bought into the system, the emotion of crowds to drive players forward and levels of player fitness nearly impossible to maintain for long periods.
All of those supporting aspects will be taking major hits, and I think that may hasten the tactical cycle away from such high-commitment approaches in time.
Tbh, I think the ongoing success of Atletico this season proves that deep defenses and quick counters, when implemented well, are already showing up more press-oriented systems. The foundational logic behind our crab-like approach is sound. You just need it properly implemented by a decent manager - a title which I think the fool in charge lost a while ago in the haze of his own ego. Nothing he's done shows me he's a genius - quite the contrary, actually, getting constantly shown up by Klopp and sitting on his behind for 75m in games where we're under the cosh on account of being outplayed by SU, Palace and Fulham.
Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
Lo Celso would break
We’ve seen what 4/5 years of high press did to Deles body, do you think he could do it again?
Criticism is not having a dig mate, this is a message board where people can post their opinions and discuss what's going on.
I don't have a closed mind on him i jusy don't think he's doing a good job or that he's shown anything to suggest he'll turn it around - and I've explained and discussed why. If he does then great and if someone's able to argue why I'm wrong in the meantime then I'm all ears.
What has it done to his body?
Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Also, in terms of suggestions for a replacement for this lump, maybe Marcelo Gallardo from River Plate or Marcelino from Bilbao?
Gallardo is basically South America's Ferguson, from what I understand - led an unfancied River Plate to glory in Argentina and the Copa Libertadores again and again. Marcelino is a damn good manager who won the Spanish Cup with Valencia and (last week) the Super Cup with Bilbao. He's only just joined Bilbao, but maybe he'd be open to moving next year?
Both are risks because I doubt either speaks English very well. But with Gallardo especially, he seems like the kind of manager we can only hope to attract when he's a risk - once he proves himself in European football, he's out of our reach.
Until he fades and becomes an utterly mediocre grump sustained by past glories, anyway - which Mourinho seemingly is now.
Gallardo is basically South America's Ferguson, from what I understand - led an unfancied River Plate to glory in Argentina and the Copa Libertadores again and again. Marcelino is a damn good manager who won the Spanish Cup with Valencia and (last week) the Super Cup with Bilbao. He's only just joined Bilbao, but maybe he'd be open to moving next year?
Both are risks because I doubt either speaks English very well. But with Gallardo especially, he seems like the kind of manager we can only hope to attract when he's a risk - once he proves himself in European football, he's out of our reach.
Until he fades and becomes an utterly mediocre grump sustained by past glories, anyway - which Mourinho seemingly is now.
Gazza
Nick Barmby
I dont know about that as he would have to get to grips with over inflated UK players who are valued and prized higher than their German counterpart.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that we should also remember that the argument in favour of Mourinho from some was that he would have an immediate impact on a good squad who were just being held back by a lack of winning mentality (which Mourinho would provide). It turns out that the last manager wasn't doing so bad after all.
I can't say i remember that tbh though if true could be down to any number of things and he's hsd a nice long rest now...
Gazza
Nick Barmby
So again what's the point in another manager coming in if its some of the main players that are not all that.
No manager in the world can polish some of the turds we have playing in the starting line up. The overall quality of impact players coming off the bench never fill me with their ability to change or influence the match.
The only players that play regularly that would play in an ideal world are:
Kane
Son
PEH
NDombele
Reguilon
Decent players/ can do a job:
Lloris (but I would happily replace)
Sissoko
Lo Celso (looks like a perma-crock at the minute)
Davies
Alder (on his last legs though)
Bergwijn
Players that can go:
Dier
Aurier
Winks
Lamela
Moura
Jury out on:
Vinicius (needs minutes)
Doherty, has not really shown the same quality at wolves
Rodon, no need to judge at this minute.
Jose is a cheque book manager; he needs genuinely top quality players, but we cant spend £100m-150m each year on players
Look what Villa, Everton and Leicester have done on smaller budgets and inferior players. We need a manager who can make players better, install a system and work with players who aren't all £80m players. That isn't Jose. (and thats before you get on to style)
Gazza
Nick Barmby
Won the champions league with Porto.
Spend €21mil on 56 players.
1st stint at Chelsea.
Spend €371mil on 62 players.
Highest fee: €44mil Shevchenko
Won the champions league with Inter.
Spend €164mil on 80 players.
Highest fee: €28mil on Milito
Real Madrid.
Spend €187 mil on 21 players.
Highest fee: €35mil on Luka
2nd stint at Chelsea.
Spend €360 mil on 98 players.
Highest fee: €38 mil on Costa.
Man utd.
Spend €466 mil on 26 players.
Highest fee: €105 Paul Pogba.
I think you can see that he has spent money at Chelsea, Real, and united who are money pits, average cost per players signed.
However his average cost per player the two times he won the CL he didn't actually have a massive outlay on cost per player.
Just some food for thought.
Easy to brand him a cheque book manager, but if you look at the clubs where he has splashed the cash, they splash the cash regardless.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
He has made some of our players better though. Hugo, Aurier, Davies, Dier, Ndombele, Kane and Son have been better since he arrived IMO. The problem for me is that our attacking play looks very disjointed and our defence looks susceptible unless we pack it.
Ive also been massively disappointed in Jose’s inability to change a game because at other clubs, he seemed to be able to do that whenever needed.
He looks a shadow of the manager he once was. I remember a game in 2005/6 away to Everton where Chelsea were 2-1 down to Everton with around 10 mins to go and I’m looking at Mourinho thinking he won’t let his team not win this game. And they won 3-2 through sheer bloody mindedness. It’s a good number of years since I felt Jose had that sort of influence. I hoped he’d recover it here but it’s not happening.