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New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
JerusalemMan
Johnny Morrison
I wonder what triggered him to say that.
I got a load of pictures of the place and it does look absolutely top-drawer
Mattilda Collywobs
Phil Gray
The design of the training complex should give you all a sense of the specification we're looking to implement within both the stadium interior and its surrounding realm. Currently in tender assessment, specifically fit-out, and we hope to be in a position to make an announcement in the new year.
It's very difficult to be any more specific, as redesign introduces slippage. Once beyond, however, it will be easier to deliver progress updates.
Significant progress has been made and will accelerate further in early 2013.
It's very difficult to be any more specific, as redesign introduces slippage. Once beyond, however, it will be easier to deliver progress updates.
Significant progress has been made and will accelerate further in early 2013.
Thank you. That's one of the most hopeful and exciting posts about the stadium that I've read in a long time.
But can I ask, how do you know all this?
JerusalemMan
Johnny Morrison
Thank you
I would love to know what the "redesign" entails, though, if Mattilda is able to divulge such information.
Is it just a matter of the club opting for a higher spec (as reportedly occurred during the training ground construction) or are there more substantial changes - notably an increase to the proposed capacity?
Is it just a matter of the club opting for a higher spec (as reportedly occurred during the training ground construction) or are there more substantial changes - notably an increase to the proposed capacity?
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
This is also something that interests me deeply. The club's original plans were for a 60,000 seater, were they not? And in the current economic climate, and given that we probably won't be able to greatly expand it in the future (given space constraints), it makes sense to maximise capacity and revenue.
Also, will the club make any allowances for possible future implementation of safe standing? I imagine there would be some amendments required to the design, so I'd be interested in finding out if the club has any plans regarding that issue.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
You'd have to imagine that the single tier stand will be designed in such a way to accommodate the switch from standing to seating as required especially considering the topic is finally getting a bit of traction. If they haven't planned for that contingency then it shows a complete lack of foresight.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
IIRC the original plans were for 58,000, not 60,000.
When Spurs first revealed that they were planning to build a new stadium on the NDP site, they announced a proposed capacity of 60,000.
Subsequently, that figure was reduced to 58,000. And then to 56,000.
jts1882
Dean Richards
With all the plans and speculation it's hard to remember the details of each stage. I think the initial plan for public consultation proposed capacity of up to 60,000 (nov/Dec 2008 ) and that after the consultation they came up with a revised the plan for 58,247 with a tighter footprint (Spr/Sum 2009?). This was reduced to 56,250 in the first plan actually submitted for planning permission (Nov 2009). Then in May 2010 this plan was withdrawn and replaced with a revised plan for a 56,250 stadium with the Kop, reduced housing, the retained historic buildings, and no hotel. Both the plans actually submitted were for 56,250.
The initial reduction from 58K to 56K was as a consequence of accommodating a single tier end. There wasn't an interim 56K design that I know of.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Funny you should say that as it was my recollection as well. I had the initial application as 58k with the housing in a crescent.
However, a check of the Nov 2009 application (HGY/2009/2000, Design Access Statement, part 3, p119) clearly states that it was 56,250. So it appears the 58k design was one during the consultation period.
However, a check of the Nov 2009 application (HGY/2009/2000, Design Access Statement, part 3, p119) clearly states that it was 56,250. So it appears the 58k design was one during the consultation period.
Ah...okay. My bad.
I guess the club just never announced that they had already reduced the capacity before they designed in the single tier end.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Or was the Kop already introduced in the first (Nov 2009) application? Then the reduction would be to allow the Kop.
I was thinking this was part of the second proposal, when the historical buildings were retained. If the Kop was already in the design, was this revision just changes to the north and south developments and the plaza, leaving the stadium unchanged.
I was thinking this was part of the second proposal, when the historical buildings were retained. If the Kop was already in the design, was this revision just changes to the north and south developments and the plaza, leaving the stadium unchanged.
Okay......you've got me thinking now! I've done a quick search on the new WHL thread on Skyscrapercity.
This was the headline (and bullet points) on the official Spurs website on 26th October 2009:
So the reduction in capacity to 56K, the inclusion of the single tier end and the fact that our application had finally been submitted to Haringey were announced at the same time.
The planning hearing was originally expected to be in March 2010 but it soon became apparent that there was a great deal of opposition to some elements of the overall scheme - most notably the demolition of some Victorian houses. So Spurs set about tweaking the NDP in an attempt to iron out all the differences before the planning hearing. This process finished on May 19th 2010, with the following headline and bullet points on the official site:
And this was the scheme which finally won planning consent on September 30th 2010.
Within 24 hours, however, Spurs announced that they were also bidding for the Olympic stadium site. And as part of the fallout from that whole farce, the NDP scheme was redesigned once again - this time to help make it more affordable (by virtue of increasing the value of the various enabling developments). This redesign was submitted to Haringey on December 22nd 2011 and received planning consent on 13th February 2012.
Phew!..........so that's the timetable of major events thus far.
Bullet
Luka Modric
Perhaps this is too simple to be true... but could Spurs implement rail seats and tell everyone to sit down, and explicitly state that this is a seated area with rail seats...
And then if those bloody fans decide to stand up, what can they do...?
Then when (not if) safe standing is reintroduced we just flip the seats up.
And then if those bloody fans decide to stand up, what can they do...?
Then when (not if) safe standing is reintroduced we just flip the seats up.
An interesting article about the new housing which will be an element both of the NDP and of the wider regeneration of north Tottenham. I've highlighted a few especially interesting (to me!) sections in bold:
http://www.24housing.co.uk/home-win
Home win
December 2012
Following last year’s riots, Tottenham Hotspur resolved to do more for the Haringey community, including the provision of affordable housing – albeit well away from their stossy new £400m stadium. And much as it will pain them to admit it, they are learning a thing or two from their arch rivals Arsenal. Paul Coleman reports.
Rewind to 6 August 2011; a bright Saturday afternoon in Tottenham, north London. Dads and their little lads stroll contentedly home after watching Spurs edge Athletic Bilbao 2-1 in a pre-season friendly.
These last few stragglers from a 25,000 crowd chat about Spurs’ much-anticipated first 2011/12 Premiership game against Everton, due to be played at the club’s White Hart Lane stadium on August 13. But the fans’ post-match insouciance rapidly turns to anxiety as they near Tottenham Police Station.
An angry protest against the police shooting two days earlier of local black man Mark Duggan has turned violent. Panicking fans bolt for cover beneath a hail of hurled missiles.
Sadly, the rest is infamy. Rioters destroy police vehicles and loot Tottenham shops.
The landmark Carpetright store is callously set on fire after midnight, including 26 top floor affordable flats run by the Metropolitan Housing Partnership. Terrified residents wake to a real nightmare and run to save their lives. By daybreak their entire art deco building is nothing but a smouldering ruin.
Riot mayhem spreads to other English cities over the next three long days and nights. The Premier League postpones the upcoming Tottenham-Everton match.
In the aftermath, a “deeply saddened” Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy says the riots have resolved the club to help improve the lives of local people.
“Through the work of the club in our neighbourhood, we know that there is a strong sense of community in Tottenham,” says Levy.
Fast forward to October 2012. Invited developers and housing associations sip wine in Tottenham’s plush Bill Nicholson Suite. Tottenham finance director Matthew Collecott says: “Last year’s huge unrest starkly showed how things can go wrong very quickly.”
Collecott claims Spurs’ new £400 million, 56,000-seater stadium – literally being built a stone’s throw north of its 36,000-capacity current home – reaffirms the club’s commitment to Tottenham. Haringey Council leader Claire Kober tells canapé-nibbling guests the stadium guarantees Tottenham 300 new homes.
“We were prepared to reduce Section 106 terms to get the Spurs scheme moving,” says Kober, referring chiefly to the absence of on-site affordable homes at the new stadium. “We want to see new housing and estate renewal benefiting old and new residents,”.
Afterwards, Collecott explains to 24housing: “The riots strongly refocused Spurs on Tottenham.” Collecott storms off in mock disgust at the suggestion that rival north London club, Arsenal, could teach Tottenham Hotspur how to provide new homes for local people when building a new stadium.
“Seriously, Arsenal did very well,” says Collecott. “But higher Islington property prices have helped them.”
Arsenal rain pelts Newlon Housing Trust chief executive Mike Hinch. “The only housing actually on this Arsenal Emirates site is for key workers,” says Hinch proudly.
Hinch points his umbrella toward the 249 key worker homes towering beside Arsenal’s impressive new Emirates stadium. “Football clubs bring an energy to regeneration and do more in the community than they get credit for,” says Hinch.
Newlon won the right to partner Arsenal and Islington Council in the £1bn Arsenal Regeneration Area (ARA) scheme over 10 years ago. Islington Council cut a Section 106 affordable homes deal with the club in return for planning consent being given for the Emirates.
Housing Corporation grant funding for key worker flats helped expand the original deal from about 400 to 1,500 affordable homes, equally split between shared ownership, key worker intermediate and affordable rent.
Arsenal finally said goodbye in May 2006 to its 93-year Highbury home and moved just across the road to their gleaming new arena. Crowds of 60,000 bring Arsenal an estimated £2 million per match, a big rise on their income from the 38,000 Highbury Stadium.
The move from Highbury to the Emirates was a short step for Arsenal but a big growth leap for Newlon. “It added about a third to our size,” says Hinch, a Spurs fan.
Hinch explains Newlon persuaded Arsenal early on to build mixed tenure housing, ruling out gated market blocks. “We proved to Arsenal our high quality homes wouldn’t drain values,” says Hinch.
Newlon homes also stand at the popular Clock End of the old Highbury Stadium. Luxury market apartments replaced the players’ tunnel and seating areas in the listed East and West grandstands.
A residents’ garden adorns the football pitch once graced by Arsenal legends like Tony Adams and Thierry Henry. Affordable home residents are excused service charges on these more lavish elements.
Hinch says people with smaller deposits seeking mortgages for shared ownership properties still face some unyielding lenders. But a long waiting list exists for Newlon’s final phase of shared ownership homes at Queensland Road right next to the stadium – and shared owners across Newlon’s ARA homes are ‘staircasing’ their property share.
Newlon’s 1,500 homes on eight ARA sites mix neatly with Arsenal’s 1,500 market homes. “Newlon has helped create a very balanced community around Arsenal,” says Hinch.
Hinch says Arsenal directors recommended Newlon to Tottenham Hotspur. He explains Newlon aims to build 250 new social, intermediate and shared ownership homes on a site procured by Tottenham Hotspur that will include a new primary school.
Hinch stresses Newlon and Tottenham have already delivered over 30 affordable homes, offered at social and affordable rents, at Berland Court near Northumberland Park station. “Berland Court is the perfect place to live,” says Hinch. “It’s got a Spurs souvenir shop!”
But Tottenham won’t chase Arsenal up the Premiership affordable homes league table. No affordable homes will arise on-site at their new stadium.
Both Collecott and Hinch agree relatively lower Tottenham land values and house prices make market homes less profitable and affordable homes less viable.
Hype engulfed Halifax research, published last summer, claiming to show average house prices near 20 Premier League clubs rose by 137 percent between 2002-12, compared to an equivalent 90 percent rise elsewhere.
Prices around Tottenham’s ground rose by 95 percent to just shy of £259,000, compared to £546,000 around Arsenal. Prices close to the Etihad, home of 2011-12 Premier League champions Emirates Marketing Project, rose on average by 271 percent to £79,098.
Hinch explains reduced government grants for housing associations, in the wake of the 2008-09 financial meltdown, means football clubs find them less attractive as development partners. “Spurs aren’t averse to affordable housing but it’s a question of what works financially for the club,” says Hinch.
On top of these market realities, Haringey Council’s risky, long-haul regeneration strategy wants wealthier homeowners and more up-market multiple retailers to regenerate the area. Haringey planners hint a renewed Victoria Line spur to a new Northumberland Park tube station might be Tottenham’s ticket to regeneration.
A new Premiership football stadium helps greatly but investment in transport infrastructure still seems the most effective way to leverage new affordable homes.
http://www.24housing.co.uk/home-win
Home win
December 2012
Following last year’s riots, Tottenham Hotspur resolved to do more for the Haringey community, including the provision of affordable housing – albeit well away from their stossy new £400m stadium. And much as it will pain them to admit it, they are learning a thing or two from their arch rivals Arsenal. Paul Coleman reports.
Rewind to 6 August 2011; a bright Saturday afternoon in Tottenham, north London. Dads and their little lads stroll contentedly home after watching Spurs edge Athletic Bilbao 2-1 in a pre-season friendly.
These last few stragglers from a 25,000 crowd chat about Spurs’ much-anticipated first 2011/12 Premiership game against Everton, due to be played at the club’s White Hart Lane stadium on August 13. But the fans’ post-match insouciance rapidly turns to anxiety as they near Tottenham Police Station.
An angry protest against the police shooting two days earlier of local black man Mark Duggan has turned violent. Panicking fans bolt for cover beneath a hail of hurled missiles.
Sadly, the rest is infamy. Rioters destroy police vehicles and loot Tottenham shops.
The landmark Carpetright store is callously set on fire after midnight, including 26 top floor affordable flats run by the Metropolitan Housing Partnership. Terrified residents wake to a real nightmare and run to save their lives. By daybreak their entire art deco building is nothing but a smouldering ruin.
Riot mayhem spreads to other English cities over the next three long days and nights. The Premier League postpones the upcoming Tottenham-Everton match.
In the aftermath, a “deeply saddened” Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy says the riots have resolved the club to help improve the lives of local people.
“Through the work of the club in our neighbourhood, we know that there is a strong sense of community in Tottenham,” says Levy.
Fast forward to October 2012. Invited developers and housing associations sip wine in Tottenham’s plush Bill Nicholson Suite. Tottenham finance director Matthew Collecott says: “Last year’s huge unrest starkly showed how things can go wrong very quickly.”
Collecott claims Spurs’ new £400 million, 56,000-seater stadium – literally being built a stone’s throw north of its 36,000-capacity current home – reaffirms the club’s commitment to Tottenham. Haringey Council leader Claire Kober tells canapé-nibbling guests the stadium guarantees Tottenham 300 new homes.
“We were prepared to reduce Section 106 terms to get the Spurs scheme moving,” says Kober, referring chiefly to the absence of on-site affordable homes at the new stadium. “We want to see new housing and estate renewal benefiting old and new residents,”.
Afterwards, Collecott explains to 24housing: “The riots strongly refocused Spurs on Tottenham.” Collecott storms off in mock disgust at the suggestion that rival north London club, Arsenal, could teach Tottenham Hotspur how to provide new homes for local people when building a new stadium.
“Seriously, Arsenal did very well,” says Collecott. “But higher Islington property prices have helped them.”
Arsenal rain pelts Newlon Housing Trust chief executive Mike Hinch. “The only housing actually on this Arsenal Emirates site is for key workers,” says Hinch proudly.
Hinch points his umbrella toward the 249 key worker homes towering beside Arsenal’s impressive new Emirates stadium. “Football clubs bring an energy to regeneration and do more in the community than they get credit for,” says Hinch.
Newlon won the right to partner Arsenal and Islington Council in the £1bn Arsenal Regeneration Area (ARA) scheme over 10 years ago. Islington Council cut a Section 106 affordable homes deal with the club in return for planning consent being given for the Emirates.
Housing Corporation grant funding for key worker flats helped expand the original deal from about 400 to 1,500 affordable homes, equally split between shared ownership, key worker intermediate and affordable rent.
Arsenal finally said goodbye in May 2006 to its 93-year Highbury home and moved just across the road to their gleaming new arena. Crowds of 60,000 bring Arsenal an estimated £2 million per match, a big rise on their income from the 38,000 Highbury Stadium.
The move from Highbury to the Emirates was a short step for Arsenal but a big growth leap for Newlon. “It added about a third to our size,” says Hinch, a Spurs fan.
Hinch explains Newlon persuaded Arsenal early on to build mixed tenure housing, ruling out gated market blocks. “We proved to Arsenal our high quality homes wouldn’t drain values,” says Hinch.
Newlon homes also stand at the popular Clock End of the old Highbury Stadium. Luxury market apartments replaced the players’ tunnel and seating areas in the listed East and West grandstands.
A residents’ garden adorns the football pitch once graced by Arsenal legends like Tony Adams and Thierry Henry. Affordable home residents are excused service charges on these more lavish elements.
Hinch says people with smaller deposits seeking mortgages for shared ownership properties still face some unyielding lenders. But a long waiting list exists for Newlon’s final phase of shared ownership homes at Queensland Road right next to the stadium – and shared owners across Newlon’s ARA homes are ‘staircasing’ their property share.
Newlon’s 1,500 homes on eight ARA sites mix neatly with Arsenal’s 1,500 market homes. “Newlon has helped create a very balanced community around Arsenal,” says Hinch.
Hinch says Arsenal directors recommended Newlon to Tottenham Hotspur. He explains Newlon aims to build 250 new social, intermediate and shared ownership homes on a site procured by Tottenham Hotspur that will include a new primary school.
Hinch stresses Newlon and Tottenham have already delivered over 30 affordable homes, offered at social and affordable rents, at Berland Court near Northumberland Park station. “Berland Court is the perfect place to live,” says Hinch. “It’s got a Spurs souvenir shop!”
But Tottenham won’t chase Arsenal up the Premiership affordable homes league table. No affordable homes will arise on-site at their new stadium.
Both Collecott and Hinch agree relatively lower Tottenham land values and house prices make market homes less profitable and affordable homes less viable.
Hype engulfed Halifax research, published last summer, claiming to show average house prices near 20 Premier League clubs rose by 137 percent between 2002-12, compared to an equivalent 90 percent rise elsewhere.
Prices around Tottenham’s ground rose by 95 percent to just shy of £259,000, compared to £546,000 around Arsenal. Prices close to the Etihad, home of 2011-12 Premier League champions Emirates Marketing Project, rose on average by 271 percent to £79,098.
Hinch explains reduced government grants for housing associations, in the wake of the 2008-09 financial meltdown, means football clubs find them less attractive as development partners. “Spurs aren’t averse to affordable housing but it’s a question of what works financially for the club,” says Hinch.
On top of these market realities, Haringey Council’s risky, long-haul regeneration strategy wants wealthier homeowners and more up-market multiple retailers to regenerate the area. Haringey planners hint a renewed Victoria Line spur to a new Northumberland Park tube station might be Tottenham’s ticket to regeneration.
A new Premiership football stadium helps greatly but investment in transport infrastructure still seems the most effective way to leverage new affordable homes.