Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[the dza]

Liverpool challenged for the title this season, after finishing 7th last time. Talking of years for us to get a top 4 place is very defeatist.

What we need is for one of our many signings to push on and become a top class player. A match-winner, the fella who turns 1 point into 3. Eriksen looks the most likely, perhaps Lamela will flourish under Poch too.

But if we have that sprinkling of magic, we can most certainly challenge for Champions League places in the very near future. Afterall, our squad, under two fairly turd managers and during a massive period of upheaval for the club, managed to finish 6th whilst not playing to anything like the capability that they have displayed at their previous clubs.

A good coach (hopefully we've sorted this now) and a player 'doing a Bale' (more likely, just 'doing a Bebatov', which would be sufficient) and we'll be right in there again. Utd will do better this season, and I think Liverpool will dip a bit due to European games. Everton, I have no idea as a couple of their key players were loan signings. Arsenal will be up there as always. Chelsea and City nailed on.

We'll be in with a good shout this season. Just don't sign too many new faces and let Poch do his thing.

 

[Cochise]

For the previous two seasons under Rodgers, Liverpool were very much a work in progress and probably didn't look all that good until Sturridge and Coutinho joined. They also had the bonus of not having any midweek football this year and having a first team that rivalled most.

I agree that if some of the younger players develop into stars as a group then we will be onto something. I just don't want to have to listen to a cacophony of anger next May when we are scrapping it out for 5th.

 

[milo]

For the previous two seasons under Rodgers, Liverpool were very much a work in progress and probably didn't look all that good until Sturridge and Coutinho joined. They also had the bonus of not having any midweek football this year and having a first team that rivalled most.

I agree that if some of the younger players develop into stars as a group then we will be onto something. I just don't want to have to listen to a cacophony of anger next May when we are scrapping it out for 5th.

=D>

 

[Grassroots]

For the previous two seasons under Rodgers, Liverpool were very much a work in progress and probably didn't look all that good until Sturridge and Coutinho joined. They also had the bonus of not having any midweek football this year and having a first team that rivalled most.

I agree that if some of the younger players develop into stars as a group then we will be onto something. I just don't want to have to listen to a cacophony of anger next May when we are scrapping it out for 5th.

5th is ok though its progress on 6th

 

[DublinSpur]

My expectations of Mauricio Pochettino (or of any new manager right now) would be as follows...

Season 1:
* Get the team playing decent attacking football
* Develop the team into a coherent unit and address some of the obvious weak spots (e.g left back)
* Put an end to the 5-0 capitulations
* Go deep into one or more cup competition
* Finish no worse than 6th

Season 2:
* Champions League Qualification via a top four finish

Season 3:
* No worse than Season 2
* Win a cup

Season 4:
* Still in the title race by the end of March.

At that point we'll be preparing for our first season in the new stadium, Pochettino will sign a new 6 year contract extension, and the phrase "The Sky Four" will start to include Tottenham in the minds of the masses.



OK, OK, so that last bit is probably more "hope" than "expectation". And I understand that 6th position does indeed "represent our level" as far as expenditure goes, so yes - I'm expecting our new manager to get us punching significantly above our weight. But isn't that an essential part of being a football fan?

That said, I am willing to give him a full season to get the team running the way he wants it. And I hope every Spurs fan does the same. Especially Daniel Levy.

 

[braineclipse]

5th is ok though its progress on 6th

This highlights my problem with purely results (league position) based expectations. The difference between 6th and 5th could be less than 3 points and thus hang on the outcome of a single game. To me it seems like a bad way to judge if someone has done an acceptable job or not.

Why not instead look at performances? Why not instead look at if the team gets better as the season progresses? If the performances are there the results will come, early in Poch's career at Spurs getting that right should be one of the top priorities.

 

[the dza]

My expectations of Mauricio Pochettino (or of any new manager right now) would be as follows...

Season 1:
* Get the team playing decent attacking football
* Develop the team into a coherent unit and address some of the obvious weak spots (e.g left back)
* Put an end to the 5-0 capitulations
* Go deep into one or more cup competition
* Finish no worse than 6th

Season 2:
* Champions League Qualification via a top four finish

Season 3:
* No worse than Season 2
* Win a cup

Season 4:
* Still in the title race by the end of March.

At that point we'll be preparing for our first season in the new stadium, Pochettino will sign a new 6 year contract extension, and the phrase "The Sky Four" will start to include Tottenham in the minds of the masses.



OK, OK, so that last bit is probably more "hope" than "expectation". And I understand that 6th position does indeed "represent our level" as far as expenditure goes, so yes - I'm expecting our new manager to get us punching significantly above our weight. But isn't that an essential part of being a football fan?

That said, I am willing to give him a full season to get the team running the way he wants it. And I hope every Spurs fan does the same. Especially Daniel Levy.

Good post.

 

[LutonSpurs]

If you look at what Pellegrini did at City this season you can see that his biggest win was getting the players to really enjoy being part of that setup. The cohesion was excellent. The dressing room bust ups of the Mancini era were no longer ever heard about.

I hope Pochetinno can really focus on making sure the players are happy and enjoying themselves as Pellegrini did at City.

This would take us a long way I feel.

 

[milo]

If you look at what Pellegrini did at City this season you can see that his biggest win was getting the players to really enjoy being part of that setup. The cohesion was excellent. The dressing room bust ups of the Mancini era were no longer ever heard about.

I hope Pochetinno can really focus on making sure the players are happy and enjoying themselves as Pellegrini did at City.

This would take us a long way I feel.

I think that a lot of that had to do with getting rid of Tevez and Balotelli. I don't think that we have a problem with those type of players disrupting the squad. If anything, I think that we have a lack of ****s who will fight for a win.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I think that a lot of that had to do with getting rid of Tevez and Balotelli. I don't think that we have a problem with those type of players disrupting the squad. If anything, I think that we have a lack of ****s who will fight for a win.

That is very true. I do think that Nasri has been very well managed by Pellegrini. Looks a top class player again and seems very happy even when he has been benched.

Regarding Spurs and the lack of fighters. Who could we bring in to fill this void? Did Pochettino have any of these types at Saints?

 

[sc25]

Cant agree to be honest if rafa b got the job would he have been given 4 years to get it right?
Same for fdb.

Sherwood = 5 seconds.
Rafa = 5 days.
FDB = 5 months.
Poch = 5 years.

 

[africanspurs]

I think his goal is top 6. Anything less than that should be considered an unsuccessful season. It would be considered a failure in his part if there wasnt any significant visual evidence of improvement on the pitch

 

[africanspurs]

Sherwood = 5 seconds.
Rafa = 5 days.
FDB = 5 months.
Poch = 5 years.

Kind of see what you mean, and agreed

It seemed to have a decent voice on here pretty much said that CL qualification was sherwoods goal, by the yard stick you would think that it was Poch's as well

I dont think he will come anywhere near that in his first season and i dont expect him to...he'll flirt with it for a while , the talk will always be about it somewhere in the background but i doubt the true belief is that he will pull this off in his first year

I say this before we have had a chance to analyse his signings....actually no, even with new signings i dont expect him to make that mark...

 

[billyiddo]

Lot of people seemed to be demanding top 4 from AVB in his first season, hopefully they won't be so demanding this time around - give the manager a season to make the side his, get us playing how he wants us to and then see where we are come next summer - if we're in a good position come Jan maybe reassess the situation but the key points for me remain the same as when AVB took charge : performance > league position (to a degree, playing like Brazil but footing the table may be a bit hatd to swallow)

 

[thfcsteff]

Lot of people seemed to be demanding top 4 from AVB in his first season, hopefully they won't be so demanding this time around - give the manager a season to make the side his, get us playing how he wants us to and then see where we are come next summer - if we're in a good position come Jan maybe reassess the situation but the key points for me remain the same as when AVB took charge : performance > league position (to a degree, playing like Brazil but footing the table may be a bit hatd to swallow)

For this to happen everyone needs to wipe the recent history slate clean and start over.

Speaking objectively, I think top 6 would be acceptable right now with signs of growth and flow. The truth is, is we get a quality left-back and another centre-back, and the vibe is right between coach and squad, then there is every reason to think we could weasel into the top 4. It is the tragedy of last season really, that despite all the bull****, we still didn't need too many more points to have forced 4th, and lost some games in the most pathetic of manners. The talent is there, we just need the alchemist…maybe Pochettino is that?

 

[milo]

Sherwood = 5 seconds.
Rafa = 5 days.
FDB = 5 months.
Poch = 5 years.

Surely, someone's methods have an impact on how much bedding in time you can reasonably expect someone to need.

One of the arguments being put forward for FSW was that he would have an immediate impact but this would possibly come at the expense of long term planning.

I think that Poch and FdB would need and get longer because they bring something different to the job. The main arguments in favour of them is that they could work with and improve the squad, that takes more time.

I did not like the hostility that Sherwood's caretaker stint brought out but in the end, it became a bit of a circus. If his behaviour had been better, I think that he would have been given more time by the only person who matters, Levy.

 

[Grassroots]

Surely, someone's methods have an impact on how much bedding in time you can reasonably expect someone to need.

One of the arguments being put forward for FSW was that he would have an immediate impact but this would possibly come at the expense of long term planning.

I think that Poch and FdB would need and get longer because they bring something different to the job. The main arguments in favour of them is that they could work with and improve the squad, that takes more time.

I did not like the hostility that Sherwood's caretaker stint brought out but in the end, it became a bit of a circus. If his behaviour had been better, I think that he would have been given more time by the only person who matters, Levy.

I think people forget they are full time footballers its not like the twice a week I get with my squad for a total of 3 hrs a week
It can be 5 hrs a day if needed.
I know your average footballer isn't the brightest but they should be able to get most of the system and positional training in a summer plus an average of 4/6 warm up games to get it right and tweak the worst of the mistakes out no ?

I think by week 5 of the season proper if they haven't got it pretty well locked down then they are either really thick or not up to it or poch is not communicating he's system effectively or am I being to harsh on the players/manager ?

 

[milo]

I think people forget they are full time footballers its not like the twice a week I get with my squad for a total of 3 hrs a week
It can be 5 hrs a day if needed.
I know your average footballer isn't the brightest but they should be able to get most of the system and positional training in a summer plus an average of 4/6 warm up games to get it right and tweak the worst of the mistakes out no ?

I think by week 5 of the season proper if they haven't got it pretty well locked down then they are either really thick or not up to it or poch is not communicating he's system effectively or am I being to harsh on the players/manager ?

Poch got the Southampton playing his preferred style of football really quickly, so that is a promising sign.

I think that people do under estimate how much work goes into preparing a Premier League side though. I bore on about this Secret Footballer column frequently but for me it was quite eye opening

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

 

[Kingdawson]

]Lot of people seemed to be demanding top 4 from AVB in his first season[/B], hopefully they won't be so demanding this time around - give the manager a season to make the side his, get us playing how he wants us to and then see where we are come next summer - if we're in a good position come Jan maybe reassess the situation but the key points for me remain the same as when AVB took charge : performance > league position (to a degree, playing like Brazil but footing the table may be a bit hatd to swallow)

I don't think that's true. I specifically remember the thread where people were asked what's the realistic expectation and i think 5th was ahead in the poll (i said i would be happy with 6th and a good brand of football).

 

[Bullet]

Poch got the Southampton playing his preferred style of football really quickly, so that is a promising sign.

I think that people do under estimate how much work goes into preparing a Premier League side though. I bore on about this Secret Footballer column frequently but for me it was quite eye opening

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

Thanks milo, that is a very interesting read. I don't actually agree with him on a couple of points. Firstly, that players read all about opposition runs and tactics and where they should be and analyse things... players in the main are fairly thick and self centred and would rather be sexting or joking around. Did you read that excerpt the other day from Jimmy Bullard's autobiography about training with Fabio Capello on England duty? Jimmy and David Bentley took it in turns to call Fabio Capello "Postman Pat" to his face as loud as possible. Strange how they didn't win more caps?

Secondly, he says that putting someone on the post is not very useful, better to put someone in the 6 yard box. I strongly disagree as there are 10 outfield players and 1 should be on the post.



What if Sky Sports offered me Andy Gray's job? Not a chance. Let me tell you something, football pundits are universally despised by players and not just because at some point in the past they would have been on the receiving end of criticism themselves.

It doesn't matter what you've done in the game, where you've played, what you might have won or how much money you earned – pundits are held in the same regard by players as female assistant referees once were at Sky.

And while on that subject, prepare to be disappointed. While I found the whole episode with Gray and Richard Keys at Molineux cringeworthy, inside the world of football nobody is particularly bothered. Don't interpret that as evidence that players are condoning Gray and Keys for their behaviour. It's more a case that most of my team-mates would have no interest in listening to anything pundits say in the first place.

There's no obvious reason why those sat on the sofa are thought of in such low terms, but it may have something to do with a sense that they are going against the inner sanctum that we pretend we are a part of. Perhaps, subconsciously, it tugs at those still playing, who realise the ex-players know things about them that they probably wish they didn't.

Their new position of influence over millions of people is a little uncomfortable for some, I'm sure, and their failure to go the extra mile when analysing matches can also grate.

Switch to our world and the level of detail that goes into games still, to this day, amazes me. Every player has his own script, what to do, when to do it, information on the player he's up against, including weight, height, age, strengths, weaknesses, even what that opponent is likely to do when the ball comes to him in certain situations. We memorise every single set piece, where we have to stand, run and end up. We even memorise this for the other players so we know where everyone else will be at any given time.

You know that pass when you say to yourself: "How did he spot that?" Often he didn't need to; he knew the player would be there because, the night before in the hotel, he read about the runs he would be making.

It's exactly the same pass after which sometimes you might find yourself saying: "Who was that to?" The receiving player either forgot to be there or was taken out of the game by a tactical manoeuvre by his opposite number.

Football at this level is very chess-like, maybe not to those outside of football but certainly to those inside. I sometimes wonder whether it's more enjoyable playing lower down the leagues. After all, who wants to play chess?

With top-level football being so complex, it is very difficult to deconstruct a live game within a couple of minutes of it being over, and because of this the "analysis" is usually reduced to goals and individual performance. But the fact that many pundits don't even try to scratch beneath the surface, despite knowing what it takes to win a match at this level, annoys me. It's the trivialisation of what we do by people that we used to call our own and, more importantly, deprives the viewer of some very interesting ***-bits that would, I feel, add to the entertainment.

Anyone can navigate a giant iPad, sliding faces of famous players around with their pinkie while throwing out phrases like "Third man run" and other such rubbish. What particularly riles me is when you hear a pundit or co-commentator say something like, "I can't understand, Martin, why Drogba is not on the post here. That header would have fallen to him and if I'm Petr Cech I'm saying: 'Go on son, clear that off the line for me!'"

The fact is corners are routinely cleared by a man stationed on the six-yard line, exactly where Chelsea position Didier Drogba. If somebody scores inside that post it is for no other reason than a player having lost his man. That is the mistake. If there is a player on the post he will clear one, possibly two shots off the line a season. If that same player stands on the six-yard line he will probably clear 100 corners away over the course of the season.

The worst thing, though, is when this dross gets into popular culture and my friends start saying stupid things to me like, "We should have a man on the post, our manager doesn't know what he's doing", just because it sounds like the right thing to say. It's such an easy way of analysing that it infuriates me. It's lazy and it takes you, the viewer, for a fool. But, then again, Sky is an expert in creating a villain.