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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Jurgen the German said:
See my answers above

I love how AVB gets credit for doing well without VDV when he chose to sell him.
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Wow... I live a my dad's bigger than Your dad battle

For what it's worth (very little)... I don't think anyone would argue that Redknapp did not have us playing the best football in recent history, christ we were breathtaking at times. But Redknapp as what's be the case for a lot of his career is not a manager that wins important games e.g cup semis. Yes he won the cup with Portsmouth and yes we are by far and away the best side he has managed but his record in big big games isn't great.

But I lived the champions league run like we all did. I went to Berne, Bremen, Milan, Madrid all off then cal of it and it was great. It's set the bar at a level were now struggling to get too cause if we don't win a trophy soon then that's as good as it's gets (same as what wets ham and Southampton are experiencing now). We would never win the league under Harry without mega investment (not thenoennro two players people think) as we never had that kind of money and may never will. But it was fun

AVB has the hugest point total and did a great job to get that. He was incredibly unlucky not to get champions league with that. He was also a manager (similar to Redknapp) who seemed to be able to get to the press when he wasn't happy. Would he have been happy if we had brought certain players... Maybe. Hell we sold the 3rd best player in the world at the time from him and he had a big contribution to that. .


What they oth have in comm,on is zero trophies so therefore they will not be recognised long term as legends or club favourites. I can't even remember seeing any photos if either manager in the box jokers lounge or the bill Nich lounge (I'll have a look soon)... But there are definitely photos of Ramos with the carling cup
 
Redknapp's legacy will be determined by what happens in the next couple of years. If we qualify for the Champions League again any time soon and stay there, his achievements will be diluted and forgotten about by new generations - fun as they were at the time. If we endure a 20 year period like the one prior to his arrival, I think this generation of Spurs fans will look back on those days as fondly as some of the trophy wins. I was there when after 9 years of waiting to beat them, we spanked Arsenal 5-1 in the semi, but I'll remember the buzz after the Danny Rose Arsenal game when we re-ignited our season after the FA Cup semi defeat, singing "we ****ed your season up" in the streets outside the ground after we put them out of the title race with the same win, just as fondly. And I know I celebrated Crouch's goal against City and the final whistle in that game with at least as much intense joy as Woodgate's goal against Chelsea and the moment we won the cup.

AVB won't have much of a legacy. Record points total or not, the football was boring for the most part, Bale aside, and we ultimately ended up with nothing to show for it. The "big" wins, bar maybe the one at Old Trafford, don't compare to the big wins of the Redknapp era - at the Emirates, at the San Siro, against Inter, the 9-1 etc...
 
SUIYHA said:
AVB won't have much of a legacy. Record points total or not, the football was boring for the most part, Bale aside, and we ultimately ended up with nothing to show for it. The "big" wins, bar maybe the one at Old Trafford, don't compare to the big wins of the Redknapp era - at the Emirates, at the San Siro, against Inter, the 9-1 etc...
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I think it depends on one's preferences. I hate ManU the most, so I will always regard the win over ManU at their own place higher than any of our wins against Arsenal or Inter Milan. Afterall, ManU are the team who fecked us the most in the PL era. So, that win at their place was really sweet.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If you're going to belittle that cup run, then I could easily point out that Ramos only beat two decent sides the year we won the league cup but I won't do that. Despite his crap management in the league, winning the carling cup was an achievement.
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I think the key here are words like 'won the league cup'...I am absolutely proud of what happened subsequently under Redknapp, but it is the illusion that he was a messiah which always troubles me. COULD he have been a messiah? Absolutely. The tools were there, the vibe was great, he had a backroom staff which seemed to gel with the squad, he had the fans on his side...yet...yet...yet...the same issues which always plague him plagued him again. Harry didn't win anything.
 
Yeah, but come on. There were some real fun moments under Harry. Crushing Arsenal's spirit with that massive 4-4 moral victory. That gritty 1-0 away win at City. Beating Inter at home, Milan away. Gattuso and Jordan in a Vulcan death grip duel. It was good for us to have a proper Cokcney manager. We got noticed all over the world.

Not complaining about how it all ended. He had to go. But I never dwell on the negative. Just celebrate the good moments and he gave us a fair few.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Yeah, but come on. There were some real fun moments under Harry. Crushing Arsenal's spirit with that massive 4-4 moral victory. That gritty 1-0 away win at City. Beating Inter at home, Milan away. Gattuso and Jordan in a Vulcan death grip duel. It was good for us to have a proper Cokcney manager. We got noticed all over the world.

Not complaining about how it all ended. He had to go. But I never dwell on the negative. Just celebrate the good moments and he gave us a fair few.
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Absolutely agreed. The 4-4 and the 1-0 at Emirates Marketing Project are two of my favorite match-attending memories...and I go back to the '70s so I saw all that fun stuff in the early 80s in person too! I like your last couple of sentences mate, and to be fair, many of us would be delighted to leave it there methinks.
 
The truth is Redknapp could have done much better with the squad he had. In the 2010/11 season, we had a midfield of VDV, Bale, Modric, Lennon, Kranjcar and Palacios and a defence of King and Woodgate. It is unforgivable why we never achieved anything with that squad. It is clear Redknapp does knows how to assemble a good team but don't know how to get the best out of them.
 
Please can we get this thread back on topic.

There is a very similar discussion on the AVB thread in general so please take it there.

And hands up, it is in part my fault for replying to a Redknapp post a few pages back.

Now where were we? Pochettinho...
 
Considering we finished 6th last season and did not lose anyone, what would represent progress? I'm not looking for definitive "he has to finish 6th or he's gone" kinds of responses, but surely some kind of targets were agreed at the beginning?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Considering we finished 6th last season and did not lose anyone, what would represent progress? I'm not looking for definitive "he has to finish 6th or he's gone" kinds of responses, but surely some kind of targets were agreed at the beginning?
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Supposedly the target was simply to get the current squad playing better. In that context a 10th place finish with some of the worst performances seen by a Spurs team in 6-7 years doesn't bode well for Poch's midterm review with Levy
 
If the players are behind him and we start to show signs of understanding and tactical awareness and movement and the team clicking, he will stay.

If the players are not behind him and we don't show the above, Levy will have a tough decision to make. Of course on paper he wants to stick with it and wants to back Pock above the players, but after 10 months of turgid groaning he might just change his mind.
 
Ultimately we want Poch to be successful as Spurs manager. The concept of success is relative though. there are a myriad of factors involved which will define success for him.

League position
Football style
Team spirit
Trophies
Promoting youth

So all of these play a part.

In his first season which ones are key to define whether it has been a success or not?

Other successful managers - what was their first season like in terms of these factors?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Considering we finished 6th last season and did not lose anyone, what would represent progress? I'm not looking for definitive "he has to finish 6th or he's gone" kinds of responses, but surely some kind of targets were agreed at the beginning?
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To me (in Levy's place and with some experience in large business goals)

- Europa Qualification (the club has done this 7 out of 8 years now I believe) = so 6th or 7th based on the variables
- SF run in one of the cups
- Improvement/Validation of at least 3 of the infamous 7 players we bought
- Development of a more entertaining and visible style of play
- Identification and plan to remediate challenges of last 3 years (and that would include determining the appropriate players to keep/sell)

I'm not sure Poch is under huge pressure to show progress (outside of style/system and creating groundwork for future success), he will be under pressure not to regress significantly during that period.
 
I wonder how many turgid and ridiculous performances we will have to sit through before Poch gets the bullet? It's got that kind of fatal look about things...
 
Jurgen the German said:
Considering we finished 6th last season and did not lose anyone, what would represent progress? I'm not looking for definitive "he has to finish 6th or he's gone" kinds of responses, but surely some kind of targets were agreed at the beginning?
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For me more about the development of a system of play for the team with the players that are kept around and played regularly.

We've started defending better as a unit, we also need to start attacking better as a unit.
 
NWND said:
I wonder how many turgid and ridiculous performances we will have to sit through before Poch gets the bullet? It's got that kind of fatal look about things...
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Really? Tonight was fine. Besiktas had about 2 shots, scored one of them and the entire game was played in their half.

We just has a striker that left his confidence in Spain and a bunch of players returning to the team after injury.

I've seen much worse performances than this to suggest that a manager should go, across a number of reigns.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Really? Tonight was fine. Besiktas had about 2 shots, scored one of them and the entire game was played in their half.

We just has a striker that left his confidence in Spain and a bunch of players returning to the team after injury.

I've seen much worse performances than this to suggest that a manager should go, across a number of reigns.
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Well I have to say I saw the same old poor performance characterised by indecision, comedy defending, lack of penetration, low confidence, catastrophic finishing. The only good thing was that with Rose and Walker we looked more of a threat on the flanks than we have done.
 
NWND said:
I wonder how many turgid and ridiculous performances we will have to sit through before Poch gets the bullet? It's got that kind of fatal look about things...
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Well he's got a 5 year contract, so that's obviously how long Levy thought this project would take to come to fruition.
 
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