Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[parklane1]

problem with that is we seem to flip them so regularly will we be the team that gets the benefit?

Sorry i do not get your point :-k

 

[braineclipse]

Indeed, someone at the game last night said that was the youngest team we have fielded for several years ( not sure if it was or not). A lot of those players will improve with age and getting used to the system Poch wants to play, they just need time which unfortunately some fans are not good at giving.

Luckily it's up to Levy, not "some fans"

Benni was like that for about 18 months before he got good, it can take time with some players.

True. At this point he has to learn quickly though as he won't get all that many more chances...

problem with that is we seem to flip them so regularly will we be the team that gets the benefit?

Even though we sold players like Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale I really don't think it can be said that we didn't get the benefit of them playing for us and being awesome.

I suppose for us to really push on we have to produce/sign more than one or two of the really top class players at the same time. Width the amount of talent in the current young crop of players I think there's at least a small chance of some kind of synergistic Dortmund/Atletico Madrid thing happening. If not having one or two really step up, perform for a couple of seasons and then bring us a massive transfer fee is hardly the end of the world either.

 

[NWND]

We were bright and worked hard, but in the end were clinically beaten by a stronger, street-wise, professional team playing with confidence and swagger.

I don't think I or most fans would take issue with the performance or result last night.

We gave them a bit of a game last night, although let's be honest, it wasn't too uncomfortable for them after the two goals in quick succession. We didn't let our tails go down and we did keep trying to play.

It's early days for this team but i'm liking what i've seen in the last few games.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Some good signs, but I do worry that this 'Bielsa, constant-press method' that people keep saying that Poch employs will always leave us vulnerable to late-game (and esp late season) collapses.
I also fear that we will constantly play into the hands of coaches like Jose, Van Gaal and even Wenger (at times) who will employ tactics to allow us have the ball and tire ourselves out before picking us off at key moments.

Oh well..

I had that same worry as well, but having seen us play this season a few things strike me.

1. We are not playing anything like a constant press. In early games it was clear to me that there was no press at all (or at least no orchestrated press involving any more than a single player).

2. In recent games I think I have started to see signs of an 'intelligent press'. i.e. certain situations where 2, 3 or even 4 of the team have pressed as a unit. It is not headless chicken running for the sake of it and there is is no reason why this would have a negative impact on our player's fitness either late in the game or at the end of the season.

3. It also seems as though we change our gameplan a little and play deep and compact when we get the lead, looking to hit teams on the break.

 

[NWND]

I had that same worry as well, but having seen us play this season a few things strike me.

1. We are not playing anything like a constant press. In early games it was clear to me that there was no press at all (or at least no orchestrated press involving any more than a single player).

2. In recent games I think I have started to see signs of an 'intelligent press'. i.e. certain situations where 2, 3 or even 4 of the team have pressed as a unit. It is not headless chicken running for the sake of it and there is is no reason why this would have a negative impact on our player's fitness either late in the game or at the end of the season.

3. It also seems as though we change our gameplan a little and play deep and compact when we get the lead, looking to hit teams on the break.

Plus if anyone did a number on the other manager's tactics in the Poch v Wenger battle so far this season it was Poch, who effectively nullified and exposed the other manager's failings in that particular contest.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Simply because in Kane and Soldado we had two strikers who alternated the lead role a lot. Today we had pedestrians behind the hard working Kane offering pretty much nothing. Kane and Soldado have proven that they work. I know you like Lamella and have defended him a lot on his post but he really offers us nothing so far to merit a place other than the fact he is so expensive we have to persevere with him.

And if were playing the same system why did we have no width at all today???? Again because of the players chosen we switched Lennon to accommodate others and he became non existent too

The best teams don't necessarily have the best players, they have players that work as part of the whole. Our front 4 apart form Kane didn't do that today and yet again our defence were strangers to each other

Excellent points I think. I thought after the most cohesive performance of the season at the weekend the same team deserved a go again.

 

[braineclipse]

Simply because in Kane and Soldado we had two strikers who alternated the lead role a lot. Today we had pedestrians behind the hard working Kane offering pretty much nothing. Kane and Soldado have proven that they work. I know you like Lamella and have defended him a lot on his post but he really offers us nothing so far to merit a place other than the fact he is so expensive we have to persevere with him.

And if were playing the same system why did we have no width at all today???? Again because of the players chosen we switched Lennon to accommodate others and he became non existent too

The best teams don't necessarily have the best players, they have players that work as part of the whole. Our front 4 apart form Kane didn't do that today and yet again our defence were strangers to each other

Or perhaps against Chelsea we faced the best defensive unit in the league and arguably in Europe/the world. And we had played a very tiring game on Sunday, just 3 days ahead of the Chelsea game. And Soldado played over an hour in the Thursday game against Partizan before that (and 79 minutes in the Hull game the Sunday before that again). We saw Kane visibly tiring towards the end, we saw Mason come off and to me looked exhausted and not up to his usual standard and I thought Eriksen looked a bit off pace too. Very much so compared to the Everton game, but again, different opposition so difficult to say.

I really don't get how making one change to the team that beat Everton is that big of a deal. Part of working as part of the whole is to get players out there with the energy to actually do the job. This is why smaller teams that do well when they usually play just once a week often start struggling when the fixture list gets congested.

Lamela was our best attacking player yesterday along with Kane imo. I know he gets a lot of stick, I think a lot of it is undeserved. But was he really any worse than Eriksen yesterday? Was he really any worse than Soldado has been in several games where he's failed to score? I just don't see it.

 

[indianspur]

Very disappointed with the dropping of Bob. He was the hero on Sunday, feeling on top of the world and he is left out the next game. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Raziel]

Very disappointed with the dropping of Bob. He was the hero on Sunday, feeling on top of the world and he is left out the next game. Makes no sense to me.

I said it in the OMT, if Poch pulled Bobby aside and let him know it was a tactics adjustment and that he would absolutely be starting against Palace, then it's acceptable.

Other than that, its very hard to accept.

 

[Baleforce]

Sorry i do not get your point :-k

over the last couple of years we seem very quick to move players on, Dempsey, Siggy, holtby for example, without giving them a real chance in the side to see what they can do

 

[Baleforce]

Luckily it's up to Levy, not "some fans"



True. At this point he has to learn quickly though as he won't get all that many more chances...



Even though we sold players like Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale I really don't think it can be said that we didn't get the benefit of them playing for us and being awesome.

I suppose for us to really push on we have to produce/sign more than one or two of the really top class players at the same time. Width the amount of talent in the current young crop of players I think there's at least a small chance of some kind of synergistic Dortmund/Atletico Madrid thing happening. If not having one or two really step up, perform for a couple of seasons and then bring us a massive transfer fee is hardly the end of the world either.

I was thinking more of fringe players who we never really give a first team chance to rather than the obvious superstars, we bring em in for decent money, develop them, give them a few EL starts then let em leave as a make weight in the deal for the next prospect only to realise we've actually just flogged someone really really good on the cheap, siggy for example, if the deal was being done now it would have been vorm, Davies and a pile of cash

 

[braineclipse]

I said it in the OMT, if Poch pulled Bobby aside and let him know it was a tactics adjustment and that he would absolutely be starting against Palace, then it's acceptable.

Other than that, its very hard to accept.

Poch seems much more like the "open door" talking to the players type than the more old fashioned "closed door", hand the players a line-up and leave type manager/coach. I would be surprised if he didn't have a small chat with Soldado about it.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Too much stuff to get into without making this an unreadable long post. I tried to focus on the stuff that happened in the Chelsea game in my post.

We played really well in the opening 20 minutes against Chelsea. Harry Kane, somehow incapable of playing as a lone striker got into two massive scoring positions that could have changed the flow of the game completely. Mason and Bentaleb were at the centre of that.

Seriously. If you cannot see the logic in dropping one of Kane and Soldado for our toughest away game of the season that came 3 days after a massive effort against Everton without calling it a loser mentality I don't think you're capable of seeing the validity of other viewpoints than your own on this and I give up. Enjoy....

It's not about seeing other points of view, I said I j dier stand the logic, but I still think it's wrong. We got battered 3-0 so its not like dropping him worked is it. And in my opinion we should've dropped Kane if any of them.

 

[braineclipse]

I was thinking more of fringe players who we never really give a first team chance to rather than the obvious superstars, we bring em in for decent money, develop them, give them a few EL starts then let em leave as a make weight in the deal for the next prospect only to realise we've actually just flogged someone really really good on the cheap, siggy for example, if the deal was being done now it would have been vorm, Davies and a pile of cash

Ah, right.

Not sure that's really an apt comparison for players actually getting game time at home to Everton and away to Chelsea. Of the current players I suppose Vorm, Dembele, Paulinho etc are more in that boat.

But I agree that replacing one good player with another good player, spending money in the process and having to go through another bedding in period is no good. Becomes a much of a muchness situation that doesn't benefit the team.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

I said it in the OMT, if Poch pulled Bobby aside and let him know it was a tactics adjustment and that he would absolutely be starting against Palace, then it's acceptable.

Other than that, its very hard to accept.

Even if he did then he absolutely shattered it by bringing him in 3-0 down. Did he get more than 3 touches of the ball? Really awful by poch.

 

[harr1984]

Even if he did then he absolutely shattered it by bringing him in 3-0 down. Did he get more than 3 touches of the ball? Really awful by poch.

What has he shattered?

 

[braineclipse]

It's not about seeing other points of view, I said I j dier stand the logic, but I still think it's wrong. We got battered 3-0 so its not like dropping him worked is it. And in my opinion we should've dropped Kane if any of them.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30204433

Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho: "We played against a very good team and they showed that during some periods in the game.

"They started better than us and should have scored before us, but after our first goal our team became more stable and confident and we controlled the game.

"I'm really happy with the points, performance and spirit of the players. It's too heavy a result, though, for Tottenham."

But sure. "We got battered 3-0" is also a description of the game I suppose.

Chances are that whatever we tried we most likely would have lost. Just because we lost 3-0 away to a massively impressive Chelsea team, arguably one of the top 5 teams in Europe at the moment, doesn't mean that what Pochettino did was the wrong choice.

 

[braineclipse]

Even if he did then he absolutely shattered it by bringing him in 3-0 down. Did he get more than 3 touches of the ball? Really awful by poch.

Really? 15 minutes away against Chelsea not scoring and the confidence Soldado gained against Everton is just shattered? I don't see how you can claim to know that...

Could just as easily say that if he hadn't brought him on at all it would have indicated to Soldado that Poch didn't trust him and thus shattered his confidence. Would have just as equally been picked out of the blue though.

 

[harr1984]

Really? 15 minutes away against Chelsea not scoring and the confidence Soldado gained against Everton is just shattered? I don't see how you can claim to know that...

Could just as easily say that if he hadn't brought him on at all it would have indicated to Soldado that Poch didn't trust him and thus shattered his confidence. Would have just as equally been picked out of the blue though.

Considering his goal scoring drought, you would have thought that if anything would have 'shattered' his confidence yet his performances of late suggest otherwise. So coming off the bench for a few minutes and not having an impact is obvious not going to have any affect on his confidence....

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Really? 15 minutes away against Chelsea not scoring and the confidence Soldado gained against Everton is just shattered? I don't see how you can claim to know that...

Could just as easily say that if he hadn't brought him on at all it would have indicated to Soldado that Poch didn't trust him and thus shattered his confidence. Would have just as equally been picked out of the blue though.

I was referencing so keen saying maybe poch said to him he's playing it tight and he'll save him fkr palace. If he did this piece of Man manabemrnt it was ruined by this act.

And yeah, you can argue not playing him is a confidence breaker, I agree, this is even worse though.

Crazy thought, but how about just starting him and showing that trust? Especially if we were "going to lose whatever we tried".

Some bizarre rationalisation going on.