nayenezgani
Jimmy Neighbour
Some of his forward passing, releasing players early was outstanding.
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Kevin Wimmer
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I thought he looked very comfortable defensively. The only foot he put wrong was one time when the Japanese looking forward got a jump on him in the air. With the ball he was superb.
It's hard to know whether the partnership with Alder wasn't established, or whether Alder just had a long overdue off day.
If it was the partnership (and as a CB I do know that these need time to build understanding), for me it's an argument that Wimmer needs to be featuring more alongside one or other of the Dutchmen, so the change is more seamless.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Play both Wimmer and Vertonghen away at Leicester??
Unless we play a full-strength and firing front 4, that'll be a disaster!
Unless we play a full-strength and firing front 4, that'll be a disaster!
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I think he did well. It is a lot to ask of players to come in, perform to top potential for one game.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I think Vertonghen is poor when he is next to CBs who are less experienced or would look to him to be their guide.
Verts would return to his lax/absent-minded style we've all seen before esp in the second half of seasons and Wimmer will suffer as a result. Wimmer will learn and get better far more alongside Alderweireld imo.
Plus aren't both left-footers?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Verts is our vice-captain, 28 years old, and an experienced international. If he can't lead a line, we need to give up. He and Dier played well together last season. I think he just gets bad press still for giving up during those 6-months under Timmeh.
Footedness for CBs is far less of an issue than FM suggests. Front (first ball) and back (sweeping) is more how CBs orientate themselves.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I thought Timmeh was a bellend, but he can't be blamed here for similar lapses we've seen from Vertonghen both before and after Timmeh was in charge. He cannot really lead the line, and i certainly would have given up before his new found partnership with Toby. But make no mistake when Toby isn't there, he'l go back to his usual good but sloppy self. He is NOT line leader material.
Let me first of all state now: I don't play FM! However, you say you play CB so i'll take your word on that. Stil, i'd be worried due to my pints above though: Verts hasn't really formed a good partnership where it was good mainly because of him. It tends to be the other CB that raises the level.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
What did you see as his defensive shortcomings? I didn't notice any in particular - he looked calm, strong, aggressive when he needed to be, decent positioning. Alder was at fault the times they threatened us
Vertonghen is a very good player. Also many top teams play with two right footed centre halves, its not a big deal
Also I like Wimmer, he looks a good young centre half who as he gets fitter and more experienced, looks to be cut out for the perm
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
When Vertonghen is the 'senior' of the CBs AND his partner is as green as Wimmer is in this league, it tends to show up Vertonghen as a good CB who is NOT a good leader of the line. He simply is not good in that way. We have 2/3 years of evidence to see that here.
Am happy to concede that perhaps playing with two left-footers may not be an issue though (however, wasn't that an issue with some of our CB combos in the past, like Gallas and Dawson etc?)
Vidic/Rio - Dawson/King, Woodgate/King Terry/Cahill etc all were excellent together.
Btw I really dont agree with you on Jan and I think he's a player who gets overly criticised because of his style and perceived attitude - I think he is an excellent addition to our squad and we are lucky to have him.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Were these partnerships made up of two CBs that were both left-footed? Genuine question.
I have not said that Jan is not a good player, i'm saying that he is not a good leader/teacher for a rookie CB to play alongside. He tends to go to pot when he is the senior CB and the number of clean sheets we get plummets when this happens. I ask you: when has he formed a good partnership with us when paired with a CB who is younger/less experienced/less senior?
StephenH
David Ginola
Toby was I think trying to help Kevin yesterday and I think this caused a dip in his own game, understandable in circumstances.
Liked what I saw from Wimmer he was just a little unsure at times, but that is not bad when you are comparing him to Jan in the partnership.
Saying "defensive shortcomings" was a tad over critical as I really like what I saw.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
With Dier, second half of last season
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
You thought that was good? Did you see some of the flakyness and some of the poor defending when those two were paired together? I'd say often it was worse than Fazio-Vertonghen, though at least less slow.
As i say, did you think Vertonghen played the senior role well, like say Alderwiereld does now, and elevated Dier to a better level of play at CB?
All of those players are right footed. King and Terry have very good left feet (as did rio) but they are all right footed meaning the right footer/left footer partnership isn't always necessary.