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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

billyiddo said:
I would dispute the legacy, it was a great period but his team had grown tired/stale and been allowed to regress, so any legacy had petered out by the time he left. We could have given him the 160m net over two seasons to rebuild the team and taken the hit on last season but we didn't and now we're going to be stretching the problems in to a 3rd season.

Would love to get Levys thoughts on what he'd do differently.
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His legacy is the games we played
And the stadium
We wouldn’t have that without him. He helped fund it through the CL achievements
Yes we have debt... hell we wouldn’t have got Jose without levy
The guy clearly has left a legacy here
 
AdamB said:
Do you feel that Villa and Leicester have better teams or squads than us?
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I think their players are more motivated
I don’t think their squad is better
I do think Leicester’s first 11 is more balanced for the system they play. It’s quite key.. having players who suit the managers system. We don’t clearly abs it’s showing
Hence our problems
 
Please can we get away from "the players aren't performing" - they're being set up in a way that is causing that. The pundits highlighted this well yesterday. don't get me wrong, we have some bang average players, but if you're gonna continually pick Eric Dier at CB and continually watch him rooster up and not learn from it, then what do you expect?

We literally have no attacking system. Craig Dawson at West Ham has a better xG in the last 3 games than Tottenham because Jose hasn't got a method that works, especially when Kane --> Son doesn't work.

Yesterday we went 74 minutes between our first and second shot on goal. I highlighted several pages ago our lack of intent, our lack of shots etc in multiple games where our final shot on game was on the first half.

Chelsea manager has been in the job for like a week and they looked well drilled and well instructed. We had players all over the shop.

The Jose experiment is a failure, you can point to cups but would you want Juande Ramos back? Accept this, get an interim manager in and hopefully start again in the Summer.
 
On the subject of player effort and motivation - I would just ask everyone if they've ever felt unmotivated at work due to crap management? Personally I have, and so I can understand how football players could feel the same way. (I appreciate they earn a lot more money and have a very different kind of job to most of us, but I don't think that overrides basic human psychology). And as others have said, I don't think it's always a case of consciously 'downing tools' or purposefully not trying hard - it's just that you can't voluntarily manufacture 100% motivation if your environment and context is sapping it from you, and at this level of hyper-elite sport small reductions in motivation have a massive impact on performance.
 
Mikey10 said:
We need to ‘stop acting like a small club’, yet we should appoint Potter as boss...?
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This is where Levy ballsed up. Getting Mourinho or any "name" in does not automatically make Spurs better. Poch proved that then Mourinho underlined it at United and again at Spurs. Potter may fall flat on his face as Mourinho has. ATM does it matter?
 
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The players have to take some responsibility, they might not be drilled but that doesn't mean they have to stop running, making themselves available for a pass, putting in some effort etc. As Jenas said that's the minimum expected for a player.

What Jose can and should do is actually change those players who aren't doing it around - so he could play Winks for Sissoko and stick Tangana at left back, Rodon in place of Dier and maybe Lamela for Bergwyn and I'm sure we'd play a lot better.
 
elltrev said:
On the subject of player effort and motivation - I would just ask everyone if they've ever felt unmotivated at work due to crap management? Personally I have, and so I can understand how football players could feel the same way. (I appreciate they earn a lot more money and have a very different kind of job to most of us, but I don't think that overrides basic human psychology). And as others have said, I don't think it's always a case of consciously 'downing tools' or purposefully not trying hard - it's just that you can't voluntarily manufacture 400% motivation if your environment and context is sapping it from you, and at this level of hyper-elite sport small reductions in motivation have a massive impact on performance.
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Reading through the posts here about players not trying I was going to reply with basically what you have written.
How many have had a clown of a manager but still give 100% until we eventually get to the point that we see we are wasting our time and start slacking off?
It can even be a subconscious slacking off, but human nature leads us to give less effort if we don't see the point or any rewards for the effort.
Once there's a new manager with a clear plan that we can see the point of can quickly increase motivation again.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
I do. And they lost faith in Pochettino, too? Why don't they conduct the interviews themselves, then? Even Kane, who's by far the best player at the club, has won nothing so far in his career. You could argue that it's because he's been with us the whole time but he's yet to make a difference with England too.

If it's true (we don't know that), it's a very unprofessional attitude. Granted, you see that a lot these days but that doesn't make it ok. They should be giving their all, regardless of what they think about the manager or the system. If they're not good enough or if the system is flawed, fair enough, but as a supporter, I find it hard to accept that a whole season goes down the drain because 'a bunch of players no longer believe in the manager'.

I'm truly amazed that so many people think it's part of the game. It was the same thing in the late 90s when nobody was good enough for the sorry bunch of losers we called our players and that we had to endure for much longer than any of the managers they 'didn't believe in'.

(rant over - collects toys back into the pram)
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I don't believe it's as simple as the players saying "I don't believe in Jose so I'm not trying". That indicates that a player has made a conscious decision to give up. That isn't the point I'm trying to make.

Let's say you're Sonny. You're a world class player and thrive on attacking opposing players. You're now being asked to wait for 2-3 opportunities a game to do that. The rest of the time, you're being asked to do defensive work. Track back, mark opposition players. You see Dele being mistreated. That's going to have an effect. Ever questioned your manager? You'll still come in and be professional but if you don't believe your manager knows what he is doing, your performance will suffer. Not because you don't want to try but because deep down, you know what you're being asked to do doesn't make sense, is doomed to failure and it becomes impossible to give that extra 1%-2%. At this level, that makes the world of difference.

Good managers get the best out of players that elevates their performance. That's nothing to do with the players' professionalism, that's human nature. Jose, Poch and other managers spoke about creating a good feeling amongst the squad. This is why. Fergie apparently was brilliant with names of players' families and would often ask about them. Why would be bother if a professional should just deliver the same performance regardless of everything else? It's because people need to feel valued and need to believe in the person they are following to give their absolute best. Our lads are good pros from what I can see, they're just being failed by a manager whose tactics are brick and whose behaviour has started to raise questions.
 
DubSpur said:
Reading through the posts here about players not trying I was going to reply with basically what you have written.
How many have had a clown of a manager but still give 400% until we eventually get to the point that we see we are wasting our time and start slacking off?
It can even be a subconscious slacking off, but human nature leads us to give less effort if we don't see the point or any rewards for the effort.
Once there's a new manager with a clear plan that we can see the point of can quickly increase motivation again.
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But as we have seen before it’s not new.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think their players are more motivated
I don’t think their squad is better
I do think Leicester’s first 11 is more balanced for the system they play. It’s quite key.. having players who suit the managers system. We don’t clearly abs it’s showing
Hence our problems
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Yes, though we brought in 6-7 players this summer, so the system and line-up should be somewhat aligned now. We dont really have a system so its hard to have players which suit it!!!!
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don't believe it's as simple as the players saying "I don't believe in Jose so I'm not trying". That indicates that a player has made a conscious decision to give up. That isn't the point I'm trying to make.

Let's say you're Sonny. You're a world class player and thrive on attacking opposing players. You're now being asked to wait for 2-3 opportunities a game to do that. The rest of the time, you're being asked to do defensive work. Track back, mark opposition players. You see Dele being mistreated. That's going to have an effect. Ever questioned your manager? You'll still come in and be professional but if you don't believe your manager knows what he is doing, your performance will suffer. Not because you don't want to try but because deep down, you know what you're being asked to do doesn't make sense, is doomed to failure and it becomes impossible to give that extra 1%-2%. At this level, that makes the world of difference.

Good managers get the best out of players that elevates their performance. That's nothing to do with the players' professionalism, that's human nature. Jose, Poch and other managers spoke about creating a good feeling amongst the squad. This is why. Fergie apparently was brilliant with names of players' families and would often ask about them. Why would be bother if a professional should just deliver the same performance regardless of everything else? It's because people need to feel valued and need to believe in the person they are following to give their absolute best. Our lads are good pros from what I can see, they're just being failed by a manager whose tactics are brick and whose behaviour has started to raise questions.
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The dele thing is interesting as I’ve heard from too many people in the last week of an issue with his “health” ....

And I’ll add that good pros dont drink and drive... breach lockdown multiple times... punch the police... hit their girlfriends... walk out at half time... racially abuse people in airports... try to attack a fan in the stand... . I mean there is quite a list there to start with . Maybe the6 literally got the wrong half of the words being a smart clam
 
AdamB said:
Yes, though we brought in 6-7 players this summer, so the system and line-up should be somewhat aligned now. We dont really have a system so its hard to have players which suit it!!!!
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I’ll be honest
The players we brought in did include a few subs, a prospect and bale
Plus some starters in Reggie and PEH who along with Tanguy (new player) and the world class Kane and son have actually performed
Serge has also stepped up big time (I thought he was good last night too)
But we still have so much crap here it’s kinda scary. Maybe you could get more from them (we have seen it this season) but I doubt it would last. Players like normal people need change and that also men’s changing clubs

people have already mentioned the manager at work situation and I see it frequently. But I also see stale people who should left a long time ago becoming unmotivated and draining the companies. There is a balance
 
StephenH said:
This is where Levy ballsed up. Getting Mourinho or any "name" in does not automatically make Spurs better. Poch proved that then Mourinho underlined it at United and again at Spurs. Potter may fall flat on his face as Mourinho has. ATM does it matter?
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I'd take Potter over Mourinho. At least Brighton try to play and Swansea and Östersund were very good.

I may be overestimating our appeal but should we not aim higher?
 
Diamond Lights said:
Please can we get away from "the players aren't performing" - they're being set up in a way that is causing that. The pundits highlighted this well yesterday. don't get me wrong, we have some bang average players, but if you're gonna continually pick Eric Dier at CB and continually watch him rooster up and not learn from it, then what do you expect?

We non-figuratively have no attacking system. Craig Dawson at West Ham has a better xG in the last 3 games than Tottenham because Jose hasn't got a method that works, especially when Kane --> Son doesn't work.

Yesterday we went 74 minutes between our first and second shot on goal. I highlighted several pages ago our lack of intent, our lack of shots etc in multiple games where our final shot on game was on the first half.

Chelsea manager has been in the job for like a week and they looked well drilled and well instructed. We had players all over the shop.

The Jose experiment is a failure, you can point to cups but would you want Juande Ramos back? Accept this, get an interim manager in and hopefully start again in the Summer.
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Not digging you out at all but as you mentioned Eric Dier
Where would you play him?

Id get rid together with quite a few others
 
richie_spur said:
I'd take Potter over Mourinho. At least Brighton try to play and Swansea and Östersund were very good.

I may be overestimating our appeal but should we not aim higher?
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Aim higher? maybe that’s part of the problem
Potter is a quality coach who has proven it everywhere
But he isn’t a big name or a new trend
I’ll add... neither was Poch when he came here. Southampton fans didn’t want him either when he joined them
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don't believe it's as simple as the players saying "I don't believe in Jose so I'm not trying". That indicates that a player has made a conscious decision to give up. That isn't the point I'm trying to make.

Let's say you're Sonny. You're a world class player and thrive on attacking opposing players. You're now being asked to wait for 2-3 opportunities a game to do that. The rest of the time, you're being asked to do defensive work. Track back, mark opposition players. You see Dele being mistreated. That's going to have an effect. Ever questioned your manager? You'll still come in and be professional but if you don't believe your manager knows what he is doing, your performance will suffer. Not because you don't want to try but because deep down, you know what you're being asked to do doesn't make sense, is doomed to failure and it becomes impossible to give that extra 1%-2%. At this level, that makes the world of difference.

Good managers get the best out of players that elevates their performance. That's nothing to do with the players' professionalism, that's human nature. Jose, Poch and other managers spoke about creating a good feeling amongst the squad. This is why. Fergie apparently was brilliant with names of players' families and would often ask about them. Why would be bother if a professional should just deliver the same performance regardless of everything else? It's because people need to feel valued and need to believe in the person they are following to give their absolute best. Our lads are good pros from what I can see, they're just being failed by a manager whose tactics are brick and whose behaviour has started to raise questions.
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What makes it difficult is that we don't know what happens behind the scene. That means we (myself included, of course) make assumptions based on what we're seeing on the pitch at matchdays, but that's only a small part of a club's life.

With that said, I don't think Mourinho specifically instructed his players to be second best in every challenge at Brighton. I've read a billion times that we have no attacking strategy. I'd rather say our plan isn't working but I find it difficult to believe that a guy who's won more trophies than our entire club in his career simply got lucky. I don't think you can win at this level by simply asking a couple of world-class players to 'do their stuff'. Maybe his system is out-dated but (what I feel are) over-the-top comments like that remind me of people who thought Graham was losing games on purpose when he was out manager. Hardly makes any sense, if you ask me.

What I've been seeing from games is a system that clearly doesn't work and offers very little offensively. What I've been seeing for a couple of years is defensive mistake after defensive mistake and players who are supposedly very talented but have very little end product.

On a side note, I have my doubts over my managers but I can assure you that it never prevented me from doing my best at work. It certainly discouraged me from investing more than a 100% of my efforts in getting involved in things outside of my job description but, at this point, I'd be happy if our players did the same.

Again, this system isn't producing any results and apparently, Mourinho thinks persisting with it will produce results. Serves him well for saying he was happy with the squad when he was appointed.
 
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