Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Baleforce]

I think the 'downing tools' phrase is a little misleading personally.

When you have a system and way of playing which is engrained and which the players are bought in to, then that carries you through difficult periods.

The problem is that we have no system or way of attack, and many people (fans or pundits, but probably players too) don't see how we will get results beyond our two mega-stars conjuring something up

So if players lack the belief as a result of us not having any attacking tactics, its not hard to see how you might only get 90% or 95% out of them. Unfortunately that last few % makes a big difference in the PL

I'm afraid it comes back to Jose. He needs to install a way of attacking, which in turn will help get the best out of players. We're utterly dreadful at the moment, both in terms of attractiveness and getting results

Irrespective of Jose, there are multiple examples of this happening at clubs where there was a system, us under Poch, Bournemouth under Howe, Wolves under Santo, it's happened to Pep everywhere he's been, its arguably starting to happen to Klopp now, it certainly did at Dortmund.

 

[AdamB]

11 goals in our last 10 league games
9 points in our last 10 league games

 

[billyiddo]

I agree with your first bit
But players do down tools. Plenty of Ex players have said that many times
They manipulate the situations as much as they can. Their human beings and it may not always be intentional or conscious
But the manager has to pick it up and be accountable
I do think we have a huge problem with accountability in the current set up

It’s always amazing when things are going well players don’t get injured... they fight to play
But it always works the other way when it’s going wrong

Yeah look there are going to be examples of it but for the most part what people say is downing tools is more what i describe above.

Poch was a death by a thousand cuts, there were a multitude of reasons why we tailed off over the last year which don't really overlap with why we are now (imo) it's only the end result is the same (woeful form)

 

[StephenH]

I’d go Potter and start the squad rebuilding.

 

[AdamB]

Irrespective of Jose, there are multiple examples of this happening at clubs where there was a system, us under Poch, Bournemouth under Howe, Wolves under Santo, it's happened to Pep everywhere he's been, its arguably starting to happen to Klopp now, it certainly did at Dortmund.

Sure, there's many reasons a manager can fail.

However installing some tactics and basic way of attacking and defending are one of the first requirements of a manager. We don't have that. At least Sean Dyche has a way of attacking - we may not like it, but you can see what they try to do. We have no way of attacking

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah look there are going to be examples of it but for the most part what people say is downing tools is more what i describe above.

Poch was a death by a thousand cuts, there were a multitude of reasons why we tailed off over the last year which don't really overlap with why we are now (imo) it's only the end result is the same (woeful form)

It’s always the same
Players stop playing/listening/self motivating
New manager comes in and gets a bounce and we go on
We need a philosophy and continuity and as many have identified that starts above the manager

 

[Baleforce]

Sure, there's many reasons a manager can fail.

However installing some tactics and basic way of attacking and defending are one of the first requirements of a manager. We don't have that. At least Sean Dyche has a way of attacking - we may not like it, but you can see what they try to do. We have no way of attacking

I think we do, it's just that people don't like it, and right now it's not working.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’d go Potter and start the rebuilding.

I would
Most wouldn’t take him I’m convinced
But he has done so much a Brighton on the pitch

 

[StephenH]

We need to stop acting like a small club and start to act. Hoping Mourinho can magically turn this round is foolhardy.

 

[AdamB]

I think we do, it's just that people don't like it, and right now it's not working.

Can you explain it to me (genuine question!)? Our way of attacking is hit it long and hope Kane and Son can do something. That isn't a plan

I fail to see any sort of attacking plan or build-up which we have

 

[billyiddo]

It’s always the same
Players stop playing/listening/self motivating
New manager comes in and gets a bounce and we go on
We need a philosophy and continuity and as many have identified that starts above the manager

That won't protect clubs from appointing the wrong managers or managers that fail. It will happen eventually whatever the set up.

We tend to go Good appointment > Bad appointment and we're just following that pattern right now.

 

[Baleforce]

Can you explain it to me (genuine question!)? Our way of attacking is hit it long and hope Kane and Son can do something. That isn't a plan

I fail to see any sort of attacking plan or build-up which we have

We played a few long balls last night, but I think the main plan is to win the ball on the edge of our box, move the ball wide through the full backs, get it up to Son/Bergwijn then be attacking an out of shape retreating defence with 3 on 3, 3 on 4, we did get into good positions a couple of times last night only for Son/Bergwijn/Vini to fudge up a key pass or stop running into space.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think the 'downing tools' phrase is a little misleading personally.

When you have a system and way of playing which is engrained and which the players are bought in to, then that carries you through difficult periods.

The problem is that we have no system or way of attack, and many people (fans or pundits, but probably players too) don't see how we will get results beyond our two mega-stars conjuring something up

So if players lack the belief as a result of us not having any attacking tactics, its not hard to see how you might only get 90% or 95% out of them. Unfortunately that last few % makes a big difference in the PL

I'm afraid it comes back to Jose. He needs to install a way of attacking, which in turn will help get the best out of players. We're utterly dreadful at the moment, both in terms of attractiveness and getting results

Please please please don’t excuse the players efforts
The tactics are not working. Their cannot be any defence of that
But the players are not working either. It was a team devoid of confidence and effort

The Chelsea team that won the league under conte was basically the same team that downed tools the year before under Jose (won the league the year before playing his way). That shows to me exactly how players can and of operate. That was the season they took off. They also got Conte sacked too (text to Costa)..

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That won't protect clubs from appointing the wrong managers

It never will
Most get it wrong
We have as a club many many times
It happens
Getting it right is key of course

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We played a few long balls last night, but I think the main plan is to win the ball on the edge of our box, move the ball wide through the full backs, get it up to Son/Bergwijn then be attacking an out of shape retreating defence with 3 on 3, 3 on 4, we did get into good positions a couple of times last night only for Son/Bergwijn/Vini to fudge up a key pass or stop running into space.

Those tactics can work... with the right players. We don’t have or he selected the wrong players. So it doesn’t work

 

[billyiddo]

It never will
Most get it wrong
We have as a club many many times
It happens
Getting it right is key of course

So much has to click for it to work that it's not just a simple case of just appointing a 'good' manager.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So much has to click for it to work that it's not just a simple case of just appointing a 'good' manager.

You need the right player me for a start
We’re clearly lacking them

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That won't protect clubs from appointing the wrong managers or managers that fail. It will happen eventually whatever the set up.

We tend to go Good appointment > Bad appointment and we're just following that pattern right now.

Yep
As I say it happens
It was always gonna be hard whenever followed Poch as he had a left a legacy here and was our longest serving manager in a long time

 

[billyiddo]

Yep
As I say it happens
It was always gonna be hard whenever followed Poch as he had a left a legacy here and was our longest serving manager in a long time

I would dispute the legacy, it was a great period but his team had grown tired/stale and been allowed to regress, so any legacy had petered out by the time he left. We could have given him the 160m net over two seasons to rebuild the team and taken the hit on last season but we didn't and now we're going to be stretching the problems in to a 3rd season.

Would love to get Levys thoughts on what he'd do differently.

 

[AdamB]

You need the right player me for a start
We’re clearly lacking them

Do you feel that Villa and Leicester have better teams or squads than us?