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I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

Yoof said:
The problem with chances created is that set pieces are included, that's why the likes of Baines and Downing were amongst the top "chance creators" in the league. You're right that you can't get an assist if the player doesn't score but without Eriksen's goals we still scored 48, you'd think that within those goals Eriksen would've managed more than one assist in open play if he's apparently so creative.
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I feel like I keep repeating myself but chances created are a more accurate representation of creativity rather than limiting it to assists. What if a player had 5 assists but did diddly squat besides that compared to a player who created loads of chances but they weren't converted? Are you saying we should stick with Lamela in favour of Eriksen?
 
Another thing to add, two former Spurs players were also not big assisters; Modric and Bale but that doesn't mean they weren't creative. I don't think anyone is arguing that Eriksen doesn't need to create more, but let's put it into perspective, comparing Eriksen and Lamela's form and stats from last season is just silly.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I feel like I keep repeating myself but chances created are a more accurate representation of creativity rather than limiting it to assists. What if a player had 5 assists but did diddly squat besides that compared to a player who created loads of chances but they weren't converted? Are you saying we should stick with Lamela in favour of Eriksen?
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No, I just think that this is one facet of the game that Lamela has shown to be superior than Eriksen at, it's probably also the only one. I don't think chances created is a more accurate representation of creativity than assists as they're too vague, last week against Leicester Lamela apparently created five chances but I can't remember a single one of them. Eriksen would have to be seriously unlucky to only register one open play assist in an entire season if he's setting up all of these high quality chances, or maybe he's just not as creative as you think.

As for Modric, he plays deeper so I'd never expect him to put up assist numbers. Bale hit double digits for assists a couple of times but then only managed something like 3 or 4 in his final season because his game became centered more around scoring than assisting.
 
Yoof said:
No, I just think that this is one facet of the game that Lamela has shown to be superior than Eriksen at, it's probably also the only one. I don't think chances created is a more accurate representation of creativity than assists as they're too vague, last week against Leicester Lamela apparently created five chances but I can't remember a single one of them. Eriksen would have to be seriously unlucky to only register one open play assist in an entire season if he's setting up all of these high quality chances, or maybe he's just not as creative as you think.

As for Modric, he plays deeper so I'd never expect him to put up assist numbers. Bale hit double digits for assists a couple of times but then only managed something like 3 or 4 in his final season because his game became centered more around scoring than assisting.
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We will have to agree to disagree. Eriksen is and was the more creative player of the two, assists can also be subjective as you can get one for making a simple pass to a player who hits a 20 yard screamer.

As for Bale, I seem to recall he never got more than around 5 or 6 league assists.
 
According to Di Marzio fella on twitter
To Marseille apparently! Must be a loan cos i doubt they got the kind of cash we'd want for him
 
Yoof said:
No, I just think that this is one facet of the game that Lamela has shown to be superior than Eriksen at, it's probably also the only one. I don't think chances created is a more accurate representation of creativity than assists as they're too vague, last week against Leicester Lamela apparently created five chances but I can't remember a single one of them. Eriksen would have to be seriously unlucky to only register one open play assist in an entire season if he's setting up all of these high quality chances, or maybe he's just not as creative as you think.

As for Modric, he plays deeper so I'd never expect him to put up assist numbers. Bale hit double digits for assists a couple of times but then only managed something like 3 or 4 in his final season because his game became centered more around scoring than assisting.
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For all fancy stats, the best stats source are always the pair of eyes in front of our head. And, unless a visit to Specsavers is on the agenda, for anyone to claim that Lamela was superior to Eriksen in ANY creative ability is very, very difficult to agree with.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
For all fancy stats, the best stats source are always the pair of eyes in front of our head. And, unless a visit to Specsavers is on the agenda, for anyone to claim that Lamela was superior to Eriksen in ANY creative ability is very, very difficult to agree with.
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Well the eyes in my head saw Lamela create more goals than Eriksen so argue your way out of that one ;)
 
They just announced 2 players and neither was Lamela.I would be happy for him to stay but if he does go out on loan the most benefit would be for a PL team to take him surely.
 
they cant announce lamela as a loan because they have too many loans meaning they have to terminate one. only way marseille sign him is permanently.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
For all fancy stats, the best stats source are always the pair of eyes in front of our head. And, unless a visit to Specsavers is on the agenda, for anyone to claim that Lamela was superior to Eriksen in ANY creative ability is very, very difficult to agree with.
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Dr. Steven Novella said:
When someone looks at me and earnestly says, “I know what I saw,” I am fond of replying, “No you don’t.” You have a distorted and constructed memory of a distorted and constructed perception, both of which are subservient to whatever narrative your brain is operating under.
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Stats are like memory, but without the bias.
 
scaramanga said:
Stats are like memory, but without the bias.
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but just as (if not more) selective.

Lies, damned lies and statistics did not just make itself up.

But then we've been here before, plenty of times...

By your argument, let's get rid of all our scouts and just use stats to recruit all our players
 
Papercut said:
Perhaps the new signings may work better with Lamela?
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If we don't find a deal for him, I suspect he will play centrally/off the striker in the EL.
Could be a good way to get any form & confidence back - will be his best, and last, chance to succeed here
 
Maltese Falcon said:
but just as (if not more) selective.
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Stats can't be selective, they don't have agency.

Maltese Falcon said:
Lies, damned lies and statistics did not just make itself up.
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If your point there is that some people are a bit thick and can't properly grasp statistics then don't waste your time - you're preaching to the converted.

Maltese Falcon said:
But then we've been here before,
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It's tough being at the front of a learning curve but we'll get there.

Maltese Falcon said:
By your argument, let's get rid of all our scouts and just use stats to recruit all our players
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What do you think those scouts use to record performances?

Do you think they just go out and watch 100 players and come back to the club suggesting we buy the first 5 that pop into their heads?
 
Maltese Falcon said:
but just as (if not more) selective.

Lies, damned lies and statistics did not just make itself up.

But then we've been here before, plenty of times...

By your argument, let's get rid of all our scouts and just use stats to recruit all our players
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That's exactly what Brentford are doing so we will be able to see just how successful that is.

My own personal opinion is that you need to use both. Stats alone could lead to some spurious answers, likewise just relying on scouts but that's where the people that interpret the stats are so important and probably why people like Mitchell are getting paid quite a lot of money. Transfers are huge financial committments, so it stands to reason that these are not left just on the say so of a couple of scouts and perhaps the manager. There needs to be more science behind it and other sports with similar transfer fees have used statistics to good effect in player recruitment.

Clearly and very simplistically, when buying a striker you will look at their goal-scoring stats. So why should the logic change for any other position. Sure, the stats that you need to analyse would be different and perhaps in conjunction with other stats but the fact remains.

Now, with regards to the Lamela debate. It is clear he has a lot of assists. That is a fact. So for all those people saying he is useless, he is useless but has the most assists of all of our team. He also creates quite a few chances. Sure, some of this is muddied by the fact he takes corners or what not. However, I say this to you all. If he was so useless, just how does he still manage to get picked for his country. It's not just Spurs therefore that think there is a player there.

I'm not saying he is a great player, nor am I saying he is a good player. I'm just saying he's not brick. But this argument has only started because of a difference of opinion between those who think Lamela is a waste of space/useless player versus those who think he's better than that. The argument put forward for him not being useless were the stats showing assists and chances created plus the fact he is picked for his country. The argument put against is "use your eyes", "stats are gonad*s" and "he's just appalling". At least that's my summary so correct me if I've got that wrong.
 
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Maltese Falcon said:
but just as (if not more) selective.

Lies, damned lies and statistics did not just make itself up.

But then we've been here before, plenty of times...

By your argument, let's get rid of all our scouts and just use stats to recruit all our players
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The problem is with stats is that they are used by some to push a point they want to use, and they can be turned on their head as they are not always the full story.

But I guess it makes those who swear by them feel it makes them sound as if they know what they are talking about.
 
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