You can't use hate speech in America either
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Football and Homophobia
- Thread starter Papercut
- Start date
You can't use hate speech in America either
You're allowed to think homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. You can even become vice president believing that.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
Yes you can, the KKK does it daily.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
Because we have freedom of thought and speech protected by the precious first amendment to our constitution.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Yeh true
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Intent/Context is everything. The way some of my friends talk to each other in general would be horrific if they spoke to a stranger the same way.
Of course, they dont. Just as they dont get offended by each other, there is understanding of the intent (or lack of) on either side and that it is in the context of banter between mates.
If Aurier meant it as a homophobic slur then absolutely give him both barrels, and yes he should show remorse.
If he didnt, then people are just choosing to be offended as the opportunity has arose. Something which itself is something of an epidemic these days.
Of course, they dont. Just as they dont get offended by each other, there is understanding of the intent (or lack of) on either side and that it is in the context of banter between mates.
If Aurier meant it as a homophobic slur then absolutely give him both barrels, and yes he should show remorse.
If he didnt, then people are just choosing to be offended as the opportunity has arose. Something which itself is something of an epidemic these days.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Yeh thats a cracking post.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
Exactly.
fudging hell. You really are a brick for brains fudge.
Offended? Really? I am only joking. You need to learn to take a joke. It means something else. You choose to be offended.
You see your argument does not work. i don't think you are a brick for brains fudge. I did not intend to insult you. I am just illustrating a point. Yet you are still offended. Rightly.
What matters is not what I think. It is what you think I meant.
My apologies for the rather crude illustration.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im not offended at all. Actually I was just a little confused reading your post.
Had it been clear you intended to hurt my feelings then yes, Ill be offended and rightly tinkled off.
As it wasnt clear I wasnt offended in the least. And Im not now as there is clearly no intent on your behalf to actually offend.
See what I mean about context and intent?
After that I should have course choose to be offended that you would use such language aimed at me, but thats on me - not you.
Had it been clear you intended to hurt my feelings then yes, Ill be offended and rightly tinkled off.
As it wasnt clear I wasnt offended in the least. And Im not now as there is clearly no intent on your behalf to actually offend.
See what I mean about context and intent?
After that I should have course choose to be offended that you would use such language aimed at me, but thats on me - not you.
glasgowspur
Nayim
Not a good example for comparison as none of those words having anything other one interpretation. That sentence can mean only one thing.
Haha Perfect.
Milo illustrates the point perfectly. He is very offended by this post. You are not offended. It doesn't matter. What matters is not what I think. It is what others think! The same is true of the homophobic comment by Aurier.
"Dear JPBB,
You have been issued with a major infraction of 100 points. These points will not expire.
Offending post is
↑
Intent/Context is everything. The way some of my friends talk to each other in general would be horrific if they spoke to a stranger the same way.
Of course, they dont. Just as they dont get offended by each other, there is understanding of the intent (or lack of) on either side and that it is in the context of banter between mates.
If Aurier meant it as a homophobic slur then absolutely give him both barrels, and yes he should show remorse.
If he didnt, then people are just choosing to be offended as the opportunity has arose. Something which itself is something of an epidemic these days.
fudging hell. You really are a brick for brains fudge.
Offended? Really? I am only joking. You need to learn to take a joke. It means something else. You choose to be offended.
You see your argument does not work. i don't think you are a brick for brains fudge. I did not intend to insult you. I am just illustrating a point. Yet you are still offended. Rightly.
What matters is not what I think. It is what you think I meant.
My apologies for the rather crude illustration.[/quote}
In the thread:
Homophobia in Football"
Milo illustrates the point perfectly. He is very offended by this post. You are not offended. It doesn't matter. What matters is not what I think. It is what others think! The same is true of the homophobic comment by Aurier.
"Dear JPBB,
You have been issued with a major infraction of 100 points. These points will not expire.
Offending post is
↑
Intent/Context is everything. The way some of my friends talk to each other in general would be horrific if they spoke to a stranger the same way.
Of course, they dont. Just as they dont get offended by each other, there is understanding of the intent (or lack of) on either side and that it is in the context of banter between mates.
If Aurier meant it as a homophobic slur then absolutely give him both barrels, and yes he should show remorse.
If he didnt, then people are just choosing to be offended as the opportunity has arose. Something which itself is something of an epidemic these days.
fudging hell. You really are a brick for brains fudge.
Offended? Really? I am only joking. You need to learn to take a joke. It means something else. You choose to be offended.
You see your argument does not work. i don't think you are a brick for brains fudge. I did not intend to insult you. I am just illustrating a point. Yet you are still offended. Rightly.
What matters is not what I think. It is what you think I meant.
My apologies for the rather crude illustration.[/quote}
In the thread:
Homophobia in Football"
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
What I see is that you really WANT to take it badly. You seem overly sensitive to it.
Had you not added disclaimers I would have likely still not been particularly bothered. I would have read it as a rather extreme response and figured you werent worth the effort. Would I have been offended? A bit maybe, but equally in the context of this being an internet forum and you being an internet anon, its not something I would be to upset by. Ive been on the internet a while, there is always someone who gets a bit excited, and the only power you would have over me is that which I give you.
Had you come to me in person and spoken to me that way? Whole different scenario, different context, and with obvious intent you can be damn sure Ill be offended and react accordingly.
Had you come to me in person and spoken to me that way as a friend of mine? I will have responded with something just as inflamatory, we both laugh and then get a drink.
Context, intent.
Ive no problem with the post at all. Im not sure @milo read it fully and reprimanded you without understanding, or if perhaps you broke a rule I am unaware of. Milo - can you review? I see no need for JPBB to have been moderated, is it actually appropriate? (understanding fully I may have missed something)
I am forcing the issue because I am shocked how many Spurs fans are homophobic. Or simply tolerate it.
Some of the casual homophobia on here is saddening and I feel worse than on other clubs forum. i am sure when you are with your friends you do not banter with them with racist terms. You shouldn't use homophobic ones either (if indeed you do)
glasgowspur
Nayim
You're complaining about be moderated when some takes offence about something being said to some one else who isn't offended.
Priceless.
The whole argument you are putting up is that it doesn't matter what is said, is some one is offended it's wrong.
Hoisted by your own petard.
Give it up, you've been rumbled.
Legohamster
Cecil Poynton
I really hope an active pro in the English leagues comes out soon, I really don't see it being a big deal when it does.
Half the issue is the build up to someone coming out.
Half the issue is the build up to someone coming out.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
You are making rather too many assumptions and leaps for my liking. Clearly its a matter close to your heart and you have got worked up about it.
Id suggest taking a step back, cooling off a bit, and re-reading much of what has been said.
Otherwise if you continue branding posters on here as homophobic, tolerant of homophobic slurs etc I suspect you will be digging a hole from which you cannot climb out of.
The term used is not explicitly homophobic, it has multiple meanings. And that is to say nothing of the intent of the player, his education (or lack of), his upbringing or general ignorance. He could well have been using a rather inflammatory term without even realising just what he was doing. There are so many points to this which offer a more nuanced view than the very binary one you have adopted.
Very few things in life really are that black and white, and to take such a position does little to further the conversation.
Id suggest taking a step back, cooling off a bit, and re-reading much of what has been said.
Otherwise if you continue branding posters on here as homophobic, tolerant of homophobic slurs etc I suspect you will be digging a hole from which you cannot climb out of.
The term used is not explicitly homophobic, it has multiple meanings. And that is to say nothing of the intent of the player, his education (or lack of), his upbringing or general ignorance. He could well have been using a rather inflammatory term without even realising just what he was doing. There are so many points to this which offer a more nuanced view than the very binary one you have adopted.
Very few things in life really are that black and white, and to take such a position does little to further the conversation.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'll PM JPBB about it. No action has been taken.
I do not follow your logic.
Milo was offended by the post. He punished me for it.
NFTHWL was not.
I did not intend to insult NFTHWT
However, because Milo was offended by the post. And it was reasonable for him to be offended. It was wrong.
It supports my argument.
i am not complaining. It is inevitable that Milo will ban me. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Who knows when he can justify it to himself.
It is an uncomfortable message. Many Spurs fans are homophobic, many Spurs fans turn a blind eye to homophobia, many Spurs fans do not want to speak out. And the new star signing is a poster boy for homophobia.
No one wants to hear that.