Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

[90sSpursBook]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Harry was good at picking players in their best positions thus putting out a balanced side and in buying players who we needed in positions we needed thus creating a balanced squad. This is what underpinned his 'success' with us; whilst he chose to buy players that appeared to lack imagination (Parker, Crouch, Kranjcar, Friedel even bringing back Defoe, Keane, Kaboul and Chimbonda) they did all provide us stability and from that we were able to build.

Since Harry left, whether it be the fault of Levy/AVB or Baldini we have looked unbalanced and nobody quite knows who is signing the players.

I'm not saying that Poch is dead in the water - probably Baldini is next in the firing line - but should these results and performances (which are all too reminiscent of Ramos) continue until xmas would any of us be surprised if Teflon Daniel pulled the trigger in panic? In the position we could be in we'd need a firefighter (which Harry was seen as in Oct 2008) and if not Harry to return then someone like Pulis would have to come in to keep us up.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Hindsight is wonderful, but I think sacking him was a big mistake. But I still believe a lot of our decline has stemmed from 2 particular days, both beyond our control.

The night Chelsea won the CL in Munich - robbed us of a vital oppurtunity to play in the CL again

The day Capello resigned - for me, right there and then the FA should have told Harry he was wasnt getting the England job and Hodgson was. HR definitely (and I suppose quite understandbly in the circumstances) took his eye off the ball with the Tottenham job and I still say had he known he wasnt in the running he would have guided us to 3rd and the above night would not have mattered to us

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Hindsight is wonderful, but I think sacking him was a big mistake. But I still believe a lot of our decline has stemmed from 2 particular days, both beyond our control.

The night Chelsea won the CL in Munich - robbed us of a vital oppurtunity to play in the CL again

The day Capello resigned - for me, right there and then the FA should have told Harry he was wasnt getting the England job and Hodgson was. HR definitely (and I suppose quite understandbly in the circumstances) took his eye off the ball with the Tottenham job and I still say had he known he wasnt in the running he would have guided us to 3rd and the above night would not have mattered to us

Agree with this. What's worse is the FA did nothing to quell the speculation that Redknapp would get the job even though he was never in the running. Couldn't they have come out and said he's not our man and put it to bed straight away?

I think he does deserve a lot of blame for taking his eye off the ball, although I understand to an extent. But honestly, players at Spurs have behaved far worse than he did and they are still idolised by most of our fans.

 

[Yossarian]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Levy/ENIC is the elephant.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Agree with this. What's worse is the FA did nothing to quell the speculation that Redknapp would get the job even though he was never in the running. Couldn't they have come out and said he's not our man and put it to bed straight away?I think he does deserve a lot of blame for taking his eye off the ball, although I understand to an extent. But honestly, players at Spurs have behaved far worse than he did and they are still idolised by most of our fans.

100% spot on

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Agree with this. What's worse is the FA did nothing to quell the speculation that Redknapp would get the job even though he was never in the running. Couldn't they have come out and said he's not our man and put it to bed straight away?

I think he does deserve a lot of blame for taking his eye off the ball, although I understand to an extent. But honestly, players at Spurs have behaved far worse than he did and they are still idolised by most of our fans.

Despite my antipathy towards this question being raised again, I think this is as fair a viewpoint as can be agreed upon. It isn't the first time the authorities have been happy to do what they could to hinder us IMO.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Despite my antipathy towards this question being raised again, I think this is as fair a viewpoint as can be agreed upon. It isn't the first time the authorities have been happy to do what they could to hinder us IMO.

Exactly I know we could come across as having a chip on the shoulder but they have screwed us a few times.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I hated Harry's flirting off the pitch with everyone about "bigger" jobs and i also hated how he had his favourites

But.....

He kept it simple on the pitch and encouraged attacking football

The game seems to be getting more compacted and more complicated with all these foreign coaches and the football is actually worse IMO

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I miss Burky!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

nope, losing his successor was the mistake

I don't mean the point at which we sacked him, I mean not giving him the right support at the right time

I would argue that 'employing his successor' in the first place was the mistake.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I miss Burky!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was at the game yesterday.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Agree with this. What's worse is the FA did nothing to quell the speculation that Redknapp would get the job even though he was never in the running. Couldn't they have come out and said he's not our man and put it to bed straight away?

I think he does deserve a lot of blame for taking his eye off the ball, although I understand to an extent. But honestly, players at Spurs have behaved far worse than he did and they are still idolised by most of our fans.

We cut our nose off to spite our face.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

He had the best team we've had in a generation playing as less than the sum of their parts.

I dread to think what would happen if he had this bunch of losers (plus the obligatory Chimbonda) to manage.

He wouldn't have this bunch of losers to manage in the first place.... He wouldn't have allowed the club to sign 7 players with no PL experience for example.

Also can I ask why this group of players are now a 'bunch of losers' whereas in the second half of last season you felt our manager was under achieving with those same players? (and we've actually gone and spent about £30 million since then)

Something at Harry (and Tim) both realise is that a football team/squad needs certain characters within it. Sometimes they aren't the best players technically, but winning football matches isn't about have the best 11 technical players. There is that old saying "You have to earn the right to play".... In our case currently our team are simply not prepared to do that. The ONLY player out there giving everything is Ryan Mason... and I even wonder how long he continues to do so when he looks around and sees so many others not doing the same and getting picked week in week out.

I want Pochettino to succeed here more than anyone (unlike some on here I want all our managers to succeed). However I seriously worry that he hasn't got the support of the dressing room and without that it is almost impossible to succeed. Usually a manager will overcome this by bringing his own players in, the problem here is that none of the 4 that our manager has brought in are first choice (and having watched a couple of them I can see why). We are going to be forced to do business in January I think and that is an awful time to buy, it will probably also result in us spending our budget for the next couple of seasons as it did when Redknapp came in and addressed problems with the character of the squad.

People will laugh at this but a player like Robbie Keane coming back for a loan spell this Winter would probably help us in the short term in terms of character in the dressing room and on the pitch.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

We cut our nose off to spite our face.

We cut our nose off because it was cancerous and would have killed us from the inside out.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

1) His short-termism is the cause of many of our problems now. Buying too many Parkers, Friedels, Defoes, Keanes, Nelsen and Sahas, and not enough Walkers and Sandros, have meant we've spent the last 2 years having to replace pretty much his entire aged squad. It was also an imbalanced squad heavily reliant of 4 superstars (3 of whom he inherited).

2) He's been a flop since he left - 1 relegation, a very botched promotion, and another relegation on the way. The same bad old traits coming to the fore (spend loads signing loads of players, tell them to run about a bit, hope a few gems will emerge from the soup to carry the team).

3) Don't forget that in his last 2 seasons, the wheels came off Redknapp teams around about February time, costing us CL qualification. He just couldn't manage a squad to compete in all competitions over a whole season.

Redknapp was always a patch over the wound. A system manager like Poch is a surgeon who will fix the underlying problems through proper structural reforms.

There's also the issue of sustainability. Redknapp's buy them in on high wages approach isn't really compatible with the austerity needed for the stadium build; whereas the Dortmund/Ajax model of organic growth by coaching youth-team products and raw bought it talent is.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Anyway, the real question is - do the 4-4-2 boys now want Neil Warnock (this generation's Redknapp)?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Anyway, the real question is - do the 4-4-2 boys now want Neil Warnock (this generation's Redknapp)?

Why do you call out Neil Warnock in particular? What makes him similar to Redknapp? I see little similarity in the sorts of players they like and the way they get their teams to play.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

can't argue with much of that GB

not sure Poch has done enough to be considered a surgeon yet but right now he is as good as anyone, he seems like he wants to do it which is a good start

I've always liked warnock, not sure if want him here though, if we did go down the old school English manager route pulis would be the best shout

I want us to stick with poch though, there is no magic button here, we need to give the manager the time and the support to rebuild the squad

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Redknapp gave us the best days we are ever likely to know again until we are all old and grey.

We just did'nt realise it at the time.

And this is what we get for thinking we deserved better. We should hang our heads in shame.

... and those of us who did were shouted down by the noisy majority who couldn't see past his big mouth and saggy cheeks. =P~

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

1) His short-termism is the cause of many of our problems now. Buying too many Parkers, Friedels, Defoes, Keanes, Nelsen and Sahas, and not enough Walkers and Sandros, have meant we've spent the last 2 years having to replace pretty much his entire aged squad. It was also an imbalanced squad heavily reliant of 4 superstars (3 of whom he inherited).

2) He's been a flop since he left - 1 relegation, a very botched promotion, and another relegation on the way. The same bad old traits coming to the fore (spend loads signing loads of players, tell them to run about a bit, hope a few gems will emerge from the soup to carry the team).

3) Don't forget that in his last 2 seasons, the wheels came off Redknapp teams around about February time, costing us CL qualification. He just couldn't manage a squad to compete in all competitions over a whole season.

Redknapp was always a patch over the wound. A system manager like Poch is a surgeon who will fix the underlying problems through proper structural reforms.

There's also the issue of sustainability. Redknapp's buy them in on high wages approach isn't really compatible with the austerity needed for the stadium build; whereas the Dortmund/Ajax model of organic growth by coaching youth-team products and raw bought it talent is.

Parker was a very good player for us, we had a need for a player like him, Redknapp identified that and signed him. We need more of that type of pragmatism now. Imagine if instead of having the absolutely dreadful Etienne Capoue in the team we instead had the same Scott Parker that Harry signed? We would have been so abject and gutless as we were yesterday against Stoke? Going and getting Gareth Barry in the Summer would've been a good, pragmatic option for example and provided our attacking players with a platform to play. That is the sort of signing that Redknapp would've made. There was also nothing wrong with signing Friedel at the time - a good, solid, experienced keeper who cost us nothing/almost nothing, did well for us for a few years and still serves the club today. Also I would rather have Defoe than Soldado (even now) and Keane was brought back to give some character and passion in our dressing room (something that we lack in bundles today!) Nelsen and Saha were free signings that Redknapp brought in to bolster the squad after Levy wouldn't/couldn't get him who he wanted.