Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

[jimmyb]

It does emphasise how inconsistent we've been in the league for most of the past century that even Derby County have been champions of England twice (lead by our very own former midfield general Dave Mackay in 1975) since Spurs last managed to finish in the top 2, whilst Stan Cullis lead Wolves to more league titles between 1954-59 than Spurs have won in total... and yet some of our fans still think we have some sort of entitlement to challenge for the title :-s

True.

However, many people aren't aware these days that winning the FA Cup used to be considered to be as big a deal as winning the league.

 

[Mumorn]

Can we not get a Comolli/Redknapp dream team back?

"I've got to say, I've been working with data since 2005 or 2006 in terms of recruitment," said Comolli, speaking to Irish radio station Newstalks.
"We did it at Spurs. We used data in terms of team selection.
"Spurs actually told Harry Redknapp where to play Gareth Bale, because he wanted to get rid of him.
"Data was showing Bale would be an outstanding left winger when they were playing him at left-back."

 

[thfcsteff]

\It's up there with the Sherwoods Gooner tattoo and a load of other nonsensical myths that are constantly repeated on here

Aaaaaaaaand repeated once again specifically for your benefit. Don't take it from me (which let's be fair, you haven't), take it from Clive Allen. Of course, if you close your eyes and block your ears whilst shouting lalalalalalalalalala, it might not exist!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/23947384

 

[thfcsteff]

Can we not get a Comolli/Redknapp dream team back?

"I've got to say, I've been working with data since 2005 or 2006 in terms of recruitment," said Comolli, speaking to Irish radio station Newstalks.
"We did it at Spurs. We used data in terms of team selection.
"Spurs actually told Harry Redknapp where to play Gareth Bale, because he wanted to get rid of him.
"Data was showing Bale would be an outstanding left winger when they were playing him at left-back."

Ssssssshhhh ssssssssshhhhh sssssssshhhhh, lalalalalalalalalalalalala it never happened it never happened!!!!!!

Nice that Harry was there to collect the praise though...

Let's face it (and I heartily suspect you would agree here mate) this thread is bordering on ludicrous.

 

[Mumorn]

Ssssssshhhh ssssssssshhhhh sssssssshhhhh, lalalalalalalalalalalalala it never happened it never happened!!!!!!

Nice that Harry was there to collect the praise though...

Let's face it (and I heartily suspect you would agree here mate) this thread is bordering on ludicrous.

its embarrassing.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Was it Napolean that said "don't bring me good generals, bring me lucky generals"?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

I think the AVB sacking was more to do with him not being 'up for the fight' - rumors/reports of a meeting taking place after the Liverpool game where he didn't show himself in a good light

That and he had fallen out with and ****ed off everyone at the club and had stopped communicating. It was a repeat of what happened at Chelsea.

Exactly.

It's one of those self perpetuating myths - the more times that everyone repeats it (despite it being wrong), the more true it must be.

So if AVB had been sitting pretty in 4th position he still would have been sacked then? The meeting post Liverpool game would not have even happened had that been the case, and I doubt DL would have really cared about how he was getting on with everyone (in fact he might even have backed him and got rid of a few). So I genuinely don't think so.

Our board, our fans (I know a few who actually put money on us winning the title), the media and everyone else expected us to strongly challenge for 4th that season, when if you had looked at it realistically before the season started it was a totally unrealistic expectation.

 

[milo]

So if AVB had been sitting pretty in 4th position he still would have been sacked then? The meeting post Liverpool game would not have even happened had that been the case, and I doubt DL would have really cared about how he was getting on with everyone (in fact he might even have backed him and got rid of a few). So I genuinely don't think so.

Our board, our fans (I know a few who actually put money on us winning the title), the media and everyone else expected us to strongly challenge for 4th that season, when if you had looked at it realistically before the season started it was a totally unrealistic expectation.

It is difficult to say really. Would AVB have had a meltdown if everything was hunky dory?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

It is difficult to say really. Would AVB have had a meltdown if everything was hunky dory?

Was he having a melt down though? Or was he backed into a corner by a chairman/board that felt a squad that should realistically have finished between 6th and 8th should have been knocking on the door of 4th?

 

[milo]

Was he having a melt down though? Or was he backed into a corner by a chairman/board that felt a squad that should realistically have finished between 6th and 8th should have been knocking on the door of 4th?

We're covering a lot of old ground here but he did not just having a falling out with Levy/Baldini after the Liverpool game.

He had fallen out with and then excluded Freund after the Arsenal game and he fell out with the medical team after Lloris' head injury.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

We're covering a lot of old ground here but he did not just having a falling out with Levy/Baldini after the Liverpool game.

He had fallen out with and then excluded Freund after the Arsenal game and he fell out with the medical team after Lloris' head injury.

Indeed, but had he been sitting where DL expected us to be I would think he may have been backed in those fall outs though.

But you're right, we're covering old ground, so let's leave it there before we end up in one of those circular discussions where we are using metaphors for everything and no-one really knows what is going on anymore!

My overridding point is that I'm not sure we would be in a particularly different situation right now had we stuck with Redknapp, Sherwood or AVB. As a club we are probably 6th biggest in the 'modern premier league' in terms of revenue and all that modern business jazz. It's difficult for any manager to overcome that for a sustained period of time just because of how the club has to be run in that environment.

Even though Alex Ferguson was probably the best manager this country has ever seen, he still had the best players in the league at his disposal for most of his career (once he was given the time to establish himself).

 

[harr1984]

Indeed, but had he been sitting where DL expected us to be I would think he may have been backed in those fall outs though.

But you're right, we're covering old ground, so let's leave it there before we end up in one of those circular discussions where we are using metaphors for everything and no-one really knows what is going on anymore!

My overridding point is that I'm not sure we would be in a particularly different situation right now had we stuck with Redknapp, Sherwood or AVB. As a club we are probably 6th biggest in the 'modern premier league' in terms of revenue and all that modern business jazz. It's difficult for any manager to overcome that for a sustained period of time just because of how the club has to be run in that environment.

Even though Alex Ferguson was probably the best manager this country has ever seen, he still had the best players in the league at his disposal for most of his career (once he was given the time to establish himself).

Levy had fallen out with AVB on a personal level, he made no qualms about telling this to friends of his at his golf club some time before he was sacked...

 

[jimmyb]

So if AVB had been sitting pretty in 4th position he still would have been sacked then? The meeting post Liverpool game would not have even happened had that been the case, and I doubt DL would have really cared about how he was getting on with everyone (in fact he might even have backed him and got rid of a few). So I genuinely don't think so.

Our board, our fans (I know a few who actually put money on us winning the title), the media and everyone else expected us to strongly challenge for 4th that season, when if you had looked at it realistically before the season started it was a totally unrealistic expectation.

But the point is that neither AVB's departure nor that of any other manager during Levy's time at the club was for the specific failure to finish 4th, as is so frequently claimed.

 

[DTA]

Ssssssshhhh ssssssssshhhhh sssssssshhhhh, lalalalalalalalalalalalala it never happened it never happened!!!!!!

Nice that Harry was there to collect the praise though...

Let's face it (and I heartily suspect you would agree here mate) this thread is bordering on ludicrous.

Even if that was the case. Old pie and chips man harry was able and willing to listen to data and review his opinion. Something that avb was not will to do re: ade

 

[mudshark]

Why am I still reading about AVB's "sacking"? Unless I'm mistaken, the announcement was "left the club by mutual consent," or words to that effect, and all the evidence points to that being closer to the truth. IMO, Villas-Boas never got over the breach of the promise not to sell Bale, albeit that the issue was forced by the player and his agent, and that festered in his mind for the remainder of his time here. By the time things came to a head after the Liverpool defeat, he'd given up on the club, I think, and I believe it was probably more his own decision to go than Levy's, especially when you consider the acute mess it left us in with the emergency appointment of Sherwood. I think he wanted out and deliberately made himself persona non grata.

 

[milo]

Even if that was the case. Old pie and chips man harry was able and willing to listen to data and review his opinion. Something that avb was not will to do re: ade

I'm not quite sure how you draw those conclusions from the available information.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

But the point is that neither AVB's departure nor that of any other manager during Levy's time at the club was for the specific failure to finish 4th, as is so frequently claimed.

Again, this will end up going round in circles so lets leave it be. But, my point is that if Levy had more realistic expectations, the fall outs or other issues that lead to the eventual sacking may not have happened. It's an impossible argument though, because non of us know and it's impossible to know if that would have been the case. It's just my opinion.

 

[jimmyb]

Again, this will end up going round in circles so lets leave it be. But, my point is that if Levy had more realistic expectations, the fall outs or other issues that lead to the eventual sacking may not have happened. It's an impossible argument though, because non of us know and it's impossible to know if that would have been the case. It's just my opinion.

Actually, I think it is possible to know. AVB wasn't sacked when he finished 5th.

And when he eventually left in December the following season (as much of his own volition as Levy's), there was still every chance that we would finish 4th. We weren't far off.

Graham wasn't sacked for the specific failure to finish 4th. Nor was Hoddle. Nor Jol. Nor Ramos. Nor Redknapp.

So clearly there are other factors at play.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

it would definitely have been interesting to see how Redknapp couldve coped without Modric and King. Would we have signed Lloris? Would we have had the likes of Bale turn into a world class star or that Dembele/Sandro partnership that dealt us so well early on? That season was always going to be a tough one.

Would have bought some players that know how to play football in England.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Actually, I think it is possible to know. AVB wasn't sacked when he finished 5th.

And when he eventually left in December the following season (as much of his own volition as Levy's), there was still every chance that we would finish 4th. We weren't far off.

Graham wasn't sacked for the specific failure to finish 4th. Nor was Hoddle. Nor Jol. Nor Ramos. Nor Redknapp.

So clearly there are other factors at play.

Again, my point is that the 'other factors' are often born out of Levy's unrealistic expectations. That's what is impossible to tell.