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Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

Which Ex-Manager?

  • Martin Jol

    Votes: 22 40.0%

  • Juande Ramos

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Harry Redknapp

    Votes: 22 40.0%

  • Andre Villas Boas

    Votes: 8 14.5%

  • Tim Sherwood

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Total voters
    55
Ryan said:
I wouldn't pine after any of our former managers. It looks bad on paper that so many have left the club in a short period of time but can we really disagree with any of the sackings?

Jol - Gutted when he left but looked to be taking us backwards. The way the club handled it was appalling, but him leaving his job wasn't that controversial or undeserved a decision

Ramos - Clearly a terrible fit for the club, undoubtedly deserved

Redknapp - Many now have rose-tinted glasses with regards to Harry, but we had absolutely hit a ceiling under him. Consistently finished seasons poorly, especially in his final season. Also I would have had severe doubts as to how he would handled the loss of Modric and definitely wouldn't trust him with a big budget when we re-invested heavily. That's not even to mention his conduct with regards to the England job and gobbing off in the press. Deserved in my view

AVB - By all accounts AVB forced the decision for him to leave, things were pretty bleak under him too, save Bale.

Sherwood - Interim in everything but official title. Could have remained in the job if he wasn't so arrogant and abrasive but keeping him would have been a gigantic gamble.

We hit a plateau under Redknapp and we're trying to get back up there again. We had a period of sustained progression and success and that's extremely difficult to maintain. Heavy re-investment and constant transition definitely hasn't helped but I reckon we can hit those heights again. The core of the squad from '2points8games' went on to our most successful modern period. What's to say that this squad, or at least a proportion of it can't repeat the acheivements of Redknapp.

Time, patience and a little faith is required, difficult as it is at the moment, but I'm certainly not pining for any of our past managers.
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Agreed with pretty much all of that.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Icelander said:
I think things were a lot more complicated behind the scenes. There's a difference between showing interest and openly flirting. With the court case prior to that and the way he conducted himself in public, no, I don't think Levy could've handled things differently.

Yes, I can understand Harry wanting the England job and in all fairness he probably deserved it. But at the same time, we deserved more from him. Since the 5-0 trashing of Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home in February (3 days earlier Harry's court case was settled), we picked up 18 points out of a possible 39, eventually costing us a place in the Champions League. During that time the England rumours were in overdrive.

The club stood by Harry during his court case but when the England rumours started flying, he handled things poorly. Always expressing interest but never really saying he wanted the job. Who knows what went on behind the scenes, but our form crashed and rumours circled that Harry's head had been turned. Admittedly, only rumours, but our league form doesn't lie.

Maybe Levy also got tired of our usual late season slump. The same thing happened the season before. 18 points out of a possible 39 in our last 13 games (Not that that's a valid measurement of any kind, could've been 15 or 12 games for that matter...).

For me Harry was a good manager. We played brilliant football at times under him and were in and around the Champions League. He had his limitations and maybe (a BIG maybe) never would've been able to take us further. At times I miss having him as manager, but in the end I think this was the only possible solution when you figure in everything that went on during those final months of his last season.
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Agreed with pretty much all of this too!
 
thfcsteff said:
No. We are arguably in the mess we're in now due to Redknapp. I know that earlier you said something about people begrudging him wanting the England job. No. Not even close.

I have repeatedly said that my biggest single gripe with Redknapp is that he took his eye off the ball for two half-seasons running (court case one year, England job and court case the next) when even 80% of his focus in the final 3 months would've comfortably seen us in 4th and 3rd and thus CL. I can break this down if you really want me to, but the facts are out there. Oh, I also did not like the fact that he tried to absolve himself of any responsibility whatsoever. It was everyone else's fault.

So, IF yo believe what I believe, then yes, he cost us big-time.
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There was only one court case wasn't there? He had a heart opp in the season before.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Spur of the moment said:
So we just carry on burying our heads in the sand and keep changing managers every fourth Wednesday after a new moon is that it?
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Why the straw man fallacy?

Steff neither said nor suggested anything of the sort.

He simply commented on the continued discussion about Harry Redknapp's time at Spurs.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

jimmyb said:
I think it went deeper than merely Harry's behaviour re the England job and taking his eye off the ball at Spurs.

Another contributing factor was Harry's constant undermining of Levy in the media - the worst and highest profile incident being Harry's failure to toe the party line during the Modric saga in summer 2011. Levy had taken the rare step of speaking to the media and categorically ruling out any sale. The media wouldn't let the story go, of course, but all Harry had to do was refer back to Levy's comments. But no........he couldn't keep his fat gob shut. After a few weeks, he openly stated that Spurs ought to sell. It was an appalling public betrayal of both his chairman and the club. It enraged me and most other fans at the time. I can only imagine how angry it must have made Levy. To rub salt into the wounds, later that season, Harry typically tried to claim credit for Modric not having been sold! It really beggars belief.

The final straw was likely Harry going to see Levy about a new contract immediately after he failed to land the England job. But not in a humble, somewhat contrite way. No, he and his newly appointed agent, Paul Stretford, tried to play hardball with Levy, aggressively demanding a massive pay rise. Not a clever move in the light of what had happened over the previous four months. It was especially insensitive for Harry to have behaved thus during the week that Levy was still observing the Jewish period of mourning for his late mother.
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Indeed! I really don't know why people seem to forget all this.

I actually think in the end Harry purposely did the Paul Stretford thing purposely to actually get the sack: he f-ed up, and he knew the consequences; one of which would have been rebuilding bot morale and the squad itself which was about to lose Modric and King, possibly/probably Ade.
I think he knew how tough that task was and rather than take the chance and fail attempting, he's be better off being known as "the one that got sacked after two 4th placed finishes."*

Harry might have been an ass-hole to some (he certainly annoyed me at the end and I was not sad to see him go), but he wasn't stupid either...

*(...of course never mentioning the two consecutive end of season slumps and the fact that in the season that had just finished Spurs were title challengers, which HE HIMSELF talked up the fact.)
 
Re: Which Ex-Manager?

SteveAWOL said:
These cheeky whippersnappers are merely jealous of the fact that we are old enough to remember when Spurs were the undisputed kings of the FA Cup \o/

Whilst they have to live with the knowledge that Spurs have won precisely as much major silverware over the past 2 decades as lowly Leicester City!
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These youngsters will never know the sheer elegance, beauty and panache of Pat Van Den Hauwe \o/
 
We should create/merge a similar thread for ex players. There are always threads knocking about re Modric, Bale and Berbatov pining for them to come back.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We should create/merge a similar thread for ex players. There are always threads knocking about re Modric, Bale and Berbatov pining for them to come back.
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There's no problem with separate threads for ex-players or managers over on general, we'd just like to avoid SN&V being filled with threads about people who are no longer at the club.
 
milo said:
There's no problem with separate threads for ex-players or managers over on general, we'd just like to avoid SN&V being filled with threads about people who are no longer at the club.
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I started a Former Players Appreciation Thread in General, it pops up from time-to-time.
 
milo said:
There was only one court case wasn't there? He had a heart opp in the season before.
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He did but I was told that he also spent in inordinate amount of time during those months preparing his defense as it was at a critical stage. Apparently the pressure and worry were all-consuming (something, to be fair, he ended up alluding to in his book too after the event)...
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

glorygloryeze said:
Indeed! I really don't know why people seem to forget all this.

I actually think in the end Harry purposely did the Paul Stretford thing purposely to actually get the sack: he f-ed up, and he knew the consequences; one of which would have been rebuilding bot morale and the squad itself which was about to lose Modric and King, possibly/probably Ade.
I think he knew how tough that task was and rather than take the chance and fail attempting, he's be better off being known as "the one that got sacked after two 4th placed finishes."*

Harry might have been an ass-hole to some (he certainly annoyed me at the end and I was not sad to see him go), but he wasn't stupid either...

*(...of course never mentioning the two consecutive end of season slumps and the fact that in the season that had just finished Spurs were title challengers, which HE HIMSELF talked up the fact.)
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Yes. I agree Stretford was an exit strategy.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

thfcsteff said:
Er...no.
What's that got to do with re-visiting Harry Redknapp every time we go through a rough patch?
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Probably because we seem to be in a fairly permanent 'rough patch' since his departure maybe? Yes we had a decent first season under AVB with a record points tally etc etc, but you could use the argument how much of that was down to the groundwork put down by Redknapp and the emergency of Bale as a world class player (lets be fair, he saved our **** on numerous occasions)?
 
Mulletperm said:
Probably because we seem to be in a fairly permanent 'rough patch' since his departure maybe? Yes we had a decent first season under AVB with a record points tally etc etc, but you could use the argument how much of that was down to the groundwork put down by Redknapp and the emergency of Bale as a world class player (lets be fair, he saved our **** on numerous occasions)?
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For me mate, it is important that we do not re-write history in these matters. Harry was ready to loan him to Birmingham at one point and then nearly took 3 million for him from Forest; I'll let you guess who blocked it, and that was because said-Voldemort was very friendly with his family and had assured them on signing that the boy would be developed properly.

I would say the 'permanent' rough patch was more down to losing first Luka Modric (a player signed by Ramos and Commoli who Harry very much appreciated and used superbly), then Bale (who Harry certainly had a hand in helping but did not, in all blunt reality, fully develop) and finally Ledley King, who quite frankly I'd start every week right now sans training and with one knee if he'd grace us with the kit. We're basically talking about the spine of Harry's team being ripped out...a spine that Harry inherited remember. So much like when Ramos came into the first game of the season after that cup win to find no Berbatov & Keane (52 goals the previous season) and Frazier Campbell instead (bless), neither AVB or Poch have had much to play with. AVB ended up psyching himself out of the job, which is a great shame but is undeniably what ended up happening IMO, and I believe Poch deserves time and backing to see if he can make it work.

One final thing about Redknapp. He didn't always get the market support from DL, I won't disagree, but it's worth looking at who he wanted to sign in most cases. They wouldn't have been good enough. The fact remains mate, Harry blew it not once but twice and he knew he had. But he's always been a great self-protector.

I have some great memories from his era and thank them for it, but I won't be sitting regretting his departure or praying for his return.

Best as always,
Steff
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Mulletperm said:
Probably because we seem to be in a fairly permanent 'rough patch' since his departure maybe? Yes we had a decent first season under AVB with a record points tally etc etc, but you could use the argument how much of that was down to the groundwork put down by Redknapp and the emergency of Bale as a world class player (lets be fair, he saved our **** on numerous occasions)?
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All his clubs have an extended "rough patch" after he leaves. That's what happens when you employ a manger that only thinks about/is capable of thinking about the very short term.
 
I'd just like to add - how the **** is this thread still going?

I go away for a couple of days and people are still banging on about the bad old days :3walls: <-- Needs more walls.
 
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