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Etienne Capoue

africanspurs said:
an out and out midfield destroyer its necessarily by choice, its a skills set limitation. if an out and out destroyer could pass with range then he gets utilised as a playmaker...and so on and so forth

Sandro therefore is an out and out destroyer...capoue potentially is a little bit more but primarily BOTH are defensive mids whose primary duty is to protect the back....now most teams have 2 players that are capable of doing that....the teams that dont have two...have enough technical guys to make the need for two DMs null and void

we dont have enough of said technical guy....

therefore......ipso facto shmactastico radcalo.....we need two DMs in case one goes down
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So we dont have good enough central midfielders so we need two hackers in there to make up for it.
**** that lets get some decent midfielders, play eriksen and carroll in there more often, let paulinho off the leash again. Top passing sides dont need two midfield destroyers in their squad. I love Sandro but I dont want to see him in our team every week. I see him as specialist we should only play against tough opponents. If he wants to play more he needs to improve his all round game.

None of the other sides in the top 7 have two limited tackling midfielders.
Aresnal have Flamini, Liverpool Lucas, Chelsea Mikel, City Garcia, Everton none, United have Fletcher when hes fit. None have them have backup. Most of these are back up as it is.

And this is worth a read. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/18/question-holding-midfielders-changing-role
 
Modric THFC said:
So we dont have good enough central midfielders so we need two hackers in there to make up for it.
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That's assuming you see Capoue and Sandro as "hackers".

I know stats don't tell the whole story, but if you check out the "chalk-boards" for Capoue's first few games for us (before his injury) you'll note the fact that he was arguably our best passer of the ball during those games. I'm not saying he's a Carrick-type player, but if you only see him as a limited "hacker" then I have to disagree with your analysis.

Similarly Sandro has more to his game than that. There's a real intelligence to his positioning and he adds so much to our play - defensively - that he completely frees up the rest of our midfield to be more attack-minded.

Again, I'm not suggesting either player qualifies as a Cruyff "total footballer" but to describe either of them as just "hackers" is grossly unfair.
 
DublinSpur said:
That's assuming you see Capoue and Sandro as "hackers".

I know stats don't tell the whole story, but if you check out the "chalk-boards" for Capoue's first few games for us (before his injury) you'll note the fact that he was arguably our best passer of the ball during those games. I'm not saying he's a Carrick-type player, but if you only see him as a limited "hacker" then I have to disagree with your analysis.

Similarly Sandro has more to his game than that. There's a real intelligence to his positioning and he adds so much to our play - defensively - that he completely frees up the rest of our midfield to be more attack-minded.

Again, I'm not suggesting either player qualifies as a Cruyff "total footballer" but to describe either of them as just "hackers" is grossly unfair.
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He had 55% pass completion against United. Sure he retained possession adequately in some of AVB's safety first snorefests.
 
Modric THFC said:
He had 55% pass completion against United. Sure he retained possession adequately in some of AVB's safety first snorefests.
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I'm well aware that his more recent performances haven't been great (especially, though not limited to, those played out of position). Which is why I specifically mentioned his early games with us. Are you suggesting he's become a bad player in the past few months? Or that his early performances weren't representative? (people who saw him play in France would disagree with that, but I never did so maybe you're right on that... were you familiar with him while he played in France?)

I simply said that he demonstrated he could pass the ball in multiple early games which would make him a bit more than a "hacker". You then pointed at a stat from a single game where he clearly didn't play too well. Not sure that's really a valid point.
 
We need cover for injuries.
Capoue and Holtby are settled at Spurs.
We don't need a few million, it makes no difference to us fans unless we are going to spend it on a new forward or left back and that is the only way of funding it.
 
Roland Beurre said:
The question was posed in terms of Sherwood having shown signs of preferring youth players he has worked with.

I have no idea how they compare, to be honest. I was impressed with Capoue's early performances; less so with his recent ones.

I've only seen MotD highlights of Livermore at Hull but he seems to have improved somewhat from a "tremendous athlete" type to a more rounded player.
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Livermore was a senior player by the time Sherwood took over responsibility for the development squad.
 
Briddo1882 said:
I don't think it was a dig at AVB, I think that is Sherwood making a humourous comment to the media. Of course he knew Paulie can do that. How many times to we see a coach/player comment on what another individual does on the training pitch?

Anyway, I would be sad to see Capoue go, I think he has massive potential and as was posted earlier, we need cover for Sandro, this is one of the areas where we suffered last season when the Beast got injured. I do believe that Sandro would be poached were we not to secure Champs League so Capoue would then become no. 1 in that position. I do feel that 5 months is too short for our new additions to prove themselves though and they should all stay, at least until the summer.
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I agree on both counts
 
Not convinced by Capoue , certainly yet to see anything to suggest why we got rid of Thudd to bring him in - is it because he is French and flavour of the month? African not seen anything to suggest yet he is a very good player. Agree with Modric's posts we have more than enough cover in midfield especially now bentaleb has broken through. If we get the right money for him and he is causing problems behind the scenes then let him go.
 
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Modric THFC said:
So we dont have good enough central midfielders so we need two hackers in there to make up for it.
**** that lets get some decent midfielders, play eriksen and carroll in there more often, let paulinho off the leash again. Top passing sides dont need two midfield destroyers in their squad. I love Sandro but I dont want to see him in our team every week. I see him as specialist we should only play against tough opponents. If he wants to play more he needs to improve his all round game.

None of the other sides in the top 7 have two limited tackling midfielders.
Aresnal have Flamini, Liverpool Lucas, Chelsea Mikel, City Garcia, Everton none, United have Fletcher when hes fit. None have them have backup. Most of these are back up as it is.

And this is worth a read. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/18/question-holding-midfielders-changing-role
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its not really easy getting those players in just so you know.

the key phrase here is 'limited'. you said none of the top 7 sides right? thats not strictly true.......everton have more than one for instance. and oddly enough now so do chelsea, and city for that matter

the point is that the better team with better pull will always have better calibre players which will make them escape the term of limited. thats the main reason why you wont find more than one limited tackler in those teams

and in all honesty i dont think either of those two are that limited to begin with..sandro and capoue

a two man midfield of any of eriksen / paulinho / carrol would get torn to shreds by any half decent team
 
If Capoue is sold or indeed any of our summer signings it makes a complete mockery of our summer strategy. I've said before Levy and co should be accountable for this. It just feels like a complete mess.

Fortunately results recently have made most of us feel ok about it all, but it's been absolutely amateurish from Levy and co imo.

I would love for him to have some dialogue with the fans whether it be through the trust or whatever. Right now there seems to be a growing frustration with a lot of fans who are simply being made to feel we are not "real football people".

Even if we recoup the money it would have been shamblolic if he's sold after just 6 months
 
diego_maradona said:
If Capoue is sold or indeed any of our summer signings it makes a complete mockery of our summer strategy. I've said before Levy and co should be accountable for this. It just feels like a complete mess.

Fortunately results recently have made most of us feel ok about it all, but it's been absolutely amateurish from Levy and co imo.

I would love for him to have some dialogue with the fans whether it be through the trust or whatever. Right now there seems to be a growing frustration with a lot of fans who are simply being made to feel we are not "real football people".

Even if we recoup the money it would have been shamblolic if he's sold after just 6 months
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Perhaps this (and the mooted moves for Holtby and Chadli) is a problem when buying shi t loads of players in a World Cup year. I like the look of Capoue, especially from his earlier performances before his injury, but how can a non-CL team like us keep so many internationals happy when they are not playing and therefore less likely to get selected by their national sides?
 
diego_maradona said:
If Capoue is sold or indeed any of our summer signings it makes a complete mockery of our summer strategy. I've said before Levy and co should be accountable for this. It just feels like a complete mess.

Fortunately results recently have made most of us feel ok about it all, but it's been absolutely amateurish from Levy and co imo.

I would love for him to have some dialogue with the fans whether it be through the trust or whatever. Right now there seems to be a growing frustration with a lot of fans who are simply being made to feel we are not "real football people".

Even if we recoup the money it would have been shamblolic if he's sold after just 6 months
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Just like every other club then.

Chelsea just forked out over 20 million for a player they gave away not too long ago. Liverpool take huge losses on players they never should have signed in the first place every season. History is riddled with examples of clubs getting it wrong. I would say most signings fail to justify their price tag.

What should Levy do? Resign because every signing isn't a massive success? You got to look at the big picture. The club is in an excellent state right now, but we might need a bit of luck to improve further. Someone crazy enough to sponsor our stadium, unearthing another Bale or Sherwood turning out to be the next Wenger or Cruyff. What's good about our transfer policy these days is that we're unlikely to suffer big losses.
 
diego_maradona said:
If Capoue is sold or indeed any of our summer signings it makes a complete mockery of our summer strategy. I've said before Levy and co should be accountable for this. It just feels like a complete mess.

Fortunately results recently have made most of us feel ok about it all, but it's been absolutely amateurish from Levy and co imo.

I would love for him to have some dialogue with the fans whether it be through the trust or whatever. Right now there seems to be a growing frustration with a lot of fans who are simply being made to feel we are not "real football people".

Even if we recoup the money it would have been shamblolic if he's sold after just 6 months
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but why are levy and co accountable? did they just go out and buy people we didnt need with no other input?
 
Robspur12 said:
Not convinced by Capoue , certainly yet to see anything to suggest why we got rid of Thudd to bring him in - is it because he is French and flavour of the month? African not seen anything to suggest yet he is a very good player. Agree with Modric's posts we have more than enough cover in midfield especially now bentaleb has broken through. If we get the right money for him and he is causing problems behind the scenes then let him go.
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wasup rob, yeah i guess i would come to that conclusion too if i assessed the player like you did and came to that conclusion

but the thing is that the things i look for in a holding defensive destroyer type mid....i think capoue is at the very least 2 shades above average . in reality i think he is very good in that role....and his short range distribution is pretty decent too, add to this his versatility

i dont see any reason to get rid of a versatile defensive international class stalworth on the cheap for no reason.

oddly enough we do have lots of capable cMs but only 2 that can perform that role adequately

i agree with your reasoning and logic though, just my starting point is one of "very good defensive mid"

IF however he is causing grief because he doesnt like competition or something , then by all means get rid
 
I tend to agree with Modric in that 2 "destroyer" type midfielders is excessive. Surely better to have 1 destroyer and one passing/interceptor type defensive midfielder a la Arsenal. We have seen after all when we play midfielders with limited passing ability it effects our creativity. I am assuming bentaleb is the passing midfielder alongside Sandro the destroyer. Sadly as I said previously we let thudd go. In any case don't think capoue at his age will want to play understudy to Sandro which is where I see him.
 
Hang on, is this about playing them both at the same time, or having squad depth?! I don't think we should ever play Capoue and sandro together, but I do feel, and the last few matches have proven, that a more DM is really needed to protect the defence. Sandro is injured, so for me Capoue should play against better opposition. Without Capoue it leaves us relying on Sandro...
 
Sell Capoue, Holtby, Chadli - I don't care. Name me one squad player we've sold who has then gone and done big things elsewhere. I'll give you KPB, but that's it.
 
Rock Strongo said:
Sell Capoue, Holtby, Chadli - I don't care. Name me one squad player we've sold who has then gone and done big things elsewhere. I'll give you KPB, but that's it.
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Kanoute?

I'm guessing you don't include Teddy, Carrick, Berba as we didn't want to sell. To be fair, Capoue, Holtby and Chadli look to be very capable players of a much higher calibre than those we've let go before.
 
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