Eric Dier

[BrainOfLevy]

Was asked to play on the right hand side of a 442 diamond today and was unsurprisingly shocking.


The first half it was

------Dembele
Dier------------Alli
------Eriksen

Second half it was

------Dembele
Dier-----------Eriksen
--------Alli


Still have no idea what that was all about. Surely Dier should have been the one playing deep.

I’d guess it was Poch’s attempt to get Dier away from the responsibility of being the prime press beater while still retaining his defensive nous. And maybe if he didn’t gift the opposition a goal we may be congratulating Poch on a solid half.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's not about the obviously wrong pass, I'd be criticising Wanyama if he kept doing that, and I'm not.

It's about how often he makes the pass that isn't the obvious one, one that takes more defenders out of the game than the others, or the one that slows us down when we look like we've overcommitted.

Wanyama almost never makes a pass that's a bad enough choice to make you ask WTF? But when was the last time Wanyama made a pass that the defence didn't expect? I can't think of one in all the time he's been with us.

Ok, I see what you’re saying. To be honest I haven’t looked at Wanyama enough with this in mind to decide if he is capable or otherwise, or whether Dier is that far ahead of him in this regard. I would say Dier often drills a good incisive pass forwards into the feet of the attackers better than Wanyama can, but Wanyama can get out of trouble easier and has his own strengths, to the point that they almost even out.

If it’s about incisive forward passing on the floor I’d say Dier edges Wanyama, but I just don’t know enough to debate whether attacking pass selection is a big strength of his otherwise. Poch may instruct both of them to play to their strengths but as for decisions...I just don’t know enough.

 

[Cochise]

When we play the double pivot Dier does drift over to the right hand channel with Dembele moving more central and Davies advancing when play starts to switch. Roles change when play is on the other flank.

At the moment though, we are seeing Trippier playing higher up and most of our play coming through there which means Dier is on average gonna spend more time on the right side than dead centre.

 

[thfcsteff]

Scara, I can’t figure out if you’re overrating Dier or underrating the other players who play a similar role to him. Wanyama is not only a better defensive midfielder but his passing is miles better, his pass to Eriksen just before his goal was class, can’t recall Dier playing a pass of that level in his career.

Winks is also on another level to Dier going forward despite not being as good in the DM role.

If happily sell dier if a silly offer came in.

Glad you are not the manager mate!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

That's amiguous enough that you can just carry on saying Dier is a better passer than Wanyama without having to show why- it's total nonsense - knows what's the most beneficial pass and when to turn and pass ten yards, shame he doesn't know when not to fudge up and gift the opponent chance after chance

I think one thing to consider is that because Dier plays several positions, there is every chance that subconsciously team mates occasionally leave him to get in there and take the responsibility. The error yesterday came when he took charge over the other two in the situation. Had that been, say, Winks, I think one of the defenders would’ve just cleared it out. Dier is a player who never hides and takes on possibly more than he should sometimes. Even if it costs us the odd goal, I will take that 10 times out of 10. He is a leader. We cherish that and not jump on a mistake IMO...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[elltrev]

I think one thing to consider is that because Dier plays several positions, there is every chance that subconsciously team mates occasionally leave him to get in there and take the responsibility. The error yesterday came when he took charge over the other two in the situation. Had that been, say, Winks, I think one of the defenders would’ve just cleared it out. Dier is a player who never hides and takes on possibly more than he should sometimes. Even if it costs us the odd goal, I will take that 10 times out of 10. He is a leader. We cherish that and not jump on a mistake IMO...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Mate with all due respect that is surely seriously reaching - Sanchez and Trippier were both just trying to get something on it, and it happened to fall Dier - don't think anyone can seriously claim that they were specifically trying to poke the ball to Dier because they subconsciously trust him more than others?!

And he didn't take charge more than them, they were just in different situations - Sanchez and Trippier were both in 50-50s (but managed to get a foot in), whereas Dier got to the ball first (but passed the ball straight to Salah).

 

[FatBloke]

Mate with all due respect that is surely seriously reaching - Sanchez and Trippier were both just trying to get something on it, and it happened to fall Dier - don't think anyone can seriously claim that they were specifically trying to poke the ball to Dier because they subconsciously trust him more than others?!

And he didn't take charge more than them, they were just in different situations - Sanchez and Trippier were both in 50-50s (but managed to get a foot in), whereas Dier got to the ball first (but passed the ball straight to Salah).

I must have looked at that "pass" about 10 times on MotD last night. I reckon Dier's trying to play it back to Lloris so that he could hit it first time, hence not playing it too hard. It's hard to tell from the footage, but it seems to me that Lloris was unusually far back, or at least didn't rush forwards to meet the ball as quickly as he usually would. Perhaps he got caught on his heels, or he saw Salah, realised he'd be too late and decided to play the percentages.

Either way, Dier's pass was too soft, Salah was too fast, goal. My argument is that Lloris makes it look worse than it was -- an extra couple of yards on the pass and he'd have had it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I must have looked at that "pass" about 10 times on MotD last night. I reckon Dier's trying to play it back to Lloris so that he could hit it first time, hence not playing it too hard. It's hard to tell from the footage, but it seems to me that Lloris was unusually far back, or at least didn't rush forwards to meet the ball as quickly as he usually would. Perhaps he got caught on his heels, or he saw Salah, realised he'd be too late and decided to play the percentages.

Either way, Dier's pass was too soft, Salah was too fast, goal. My argument is that Lloris makes it look worse than it was -- an extra couple of yards on the pass and he'd have had it.

Lloris was never going to get to that ahead of Salah. It was difficult to make that ball look worse than it was as it was a very poor ball. I was impressed that Dier didn't let it get to him however and improved as the game went on.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Glad you are not the manager mate!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Each to their own. I like him but personally, I feel like he has been off form for the majority of this season. He’s a vital player to have purely for his versatility but I would like to see Wanyama or Winks (preferably Wanyama) replace him when they are 100% as I believe they both offer more going forward and have a wider range of passing. Despite his strengths I’ve always thought Dier is limited on the ball.

And yes I would still sell him but to reiterate, only if a silly offer came in. Starting to feel the same about Alli as well unfortunately but not for the same reasons.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

If it was just this pass, it would be unfortunate but Dier seems to be having a brain fart every couple of games. He did something similar early in the United game which could have easily resulted in a goal.

It's fine saying that his game has a range of passing that the likes of Wanyama and Sissoko do not possess but if that same game costs us avoidable goals then the risk-benefit of playing suddenly takes a new perspective.

 

[Bullet]

Lloris was never going to get to that ahead of Salah. It was difficult to make that ball look worse than it was as it was a very poor ball. I was impressed that Dier didn't let it get to him however and improved as the game went on.

Agreed, but I can see the original poster's point that Lloris scampered all the way back to his goal line, allowing Salah an ocean of space to score. Lloris should have been somewhere around his penalty spot, ready to pounce, but he backpedalled so much he was almost over his own goal-line, then sat down to his right as the ball rolled left... but YES it was all Dier's fault, a weak backpass/decision.

 

[Jurgen the German]

If it was just this pass, it would be unfortunate but Dier seems to be having a brain fart every couple of games. He did something similar early in the United game which could have easily resulted in a goal.

It's fine saying that his game has a range of passing that the likes of Wanyama and Sissoko do not possess but if that same game costs us avoidable goals then the risk-benefit of playing suddenly takes a new perspective.

The thing is, he doesn't possess a range of passing that Wanyama does not possess. Sissoko yeah fair enough he's clearly a better footballer than him. But Wanyama for me personally is a much better footballer than Dier and has a better range of passing. It's a myth that Dier is better going forward.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I wouldnt be at all surprised if he is simply exhausted. There is a fair argument to say, thanks to injury, he has had to play far more than we would have ideally liked. Full matches too - I bet he could use some rest.

Personally I think he is an excellent and under valued (and understated) player.

 

[thfcsteff]

Mate with all due respect that is surely seriously reaching - Sanchez and Trippier were both just trying to get something on it, and it happened to fall Dier - don't think anyone can seriously claim that they were specifically trying to poke the ball to Dier because they subconsciously trust him more than others?!

And he didn't take charge more than them, they were just in different situations - Sanchez and Trippier were both in 50-50s (but managed to get a foot in), whereas Dier got to the ball first (but passed the ball straight to Salah).

It might be reaching but I swear they stopped moving onto the ball because Dier was there/maybe gave a shout?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Rorschach]

It was an underhit pass, nothing more than that. Happens all the time.

Dier is multi-tool, a dream player for most managers. He does need to think and act a little quicker on the ball on occasion, sometimes just clearing it, but I'm sure he'll improve on that front with experience.

 

[braineclipse]

It was an underhit pass, nothing more than that. Happens all the time.

Dier is multi-tool, a dream player for most managers. He does need to think and act a little quicker on the ball on occasion, sometimes just clearing it, but I'm sure he'll improve on that front with experience.

Either underhit or mishit. Not sure if he tried to pass it to Lloris, looked more like he tried to pass it to Sanchez.

It's poor either way. Not good enough. But our players should be brave and try those passes fairly often instead of just clearing it with us being put under more pressure.

It's all about decision making. How much of a risk is acceptable... Had Dier found Sanchez with that pass no one would have raised an eyebrow to his decision to make that pass.

Some mistakes will happen, that should be expected and accepted. That's what it means to be brave in those situations, if there's never any risk there's no bravery. The frequency of those mistakes from Dier has been a bit too high, or perhaps he's been unusually harshly punished for his mistakes?

 

[the dza]

Either underhit or mishit. Not sure if he tried to pass it to Lloris, looked more like he tried to pass it to Sanchez.

It's poor either way. Not good enough. But our players should be brave and try those passes fairly often instead of just clearing it with us being put under more pressure.

It's all about decision making. How much of a risk is acceptable... Had Dier found Sanchez with that pass no one would have raised an eyebrow to his decision to make that pass.

Some mistakes will happen, that should be expected and accepted. That's what it means to be brave in those situations, if there's never any risk there's no bravery. The frequency of those mistakes from Dier has been a bit too high, or perhaps he's been unusually harshly punished for his mistakes?

I think, at the start of games against top sides away from home, we should play very low risk to try and ensure we get off to a solid start. Particularly when we are playing a side that thrives on pressing mistakes from the opposition. It's important to build a foundation in these type of games and try to minimise risk and mistakes early on. IMO, once the players are settled down into the game, then they can play with a bit more freedom. But we should try and minimise the risk of being caught cold in these big games.

 

[braineclipse]

I think, at the start of games against top sides away from home, we should play very low risk to try and ensure we get off to a solid start. Particularly when we are playing a side that thrives on pressing mistakes from the opposition. It's important to build a foundation in these type of games and try to minimise risk and mistakes early on. IMO, once the players are settled down into the game, then they can play with a bit more freedom. But we should try and minimise the risk of being caught cold in these big games.

The other side of that coin is that a low risk approach in those situations probably means us being reduced to a long ball team fairly easily. Especially by a team as good at pressing as Liverpool are.

Not sure if this is quite defeatist to be reduced to long balls in those situations, but I don't think it's the way Pochettino wants us to play.

Many of our best games against big teams have come when we've been brave in playing through pressure. Obviously having Winks back and firing would make that easier. But even without him, are we happy with Kane ending up essentially playing as a target man up against Lovren and van Dijk and our creative attacking midfielders looking for knock downs and second balls?

I like the way we approach this. And the way to get better at it is to try and learn from our mistakes along the way. We don't get better at playing through pressure by booting it long to Kane at the first sight of trouble.

 

[the dza]

The other side of that coin is that a low risk approach in those situations probably means us being reduced to a long ball team fairly easily. Especially by a team as good at pressing as Liverpool are.

Not sure if this is quite defeatist to be reduced to long balls in those situations, but I don't think it's the way Pochettino wants us to play.

Many of our best games against big teams have come when we've been brave in playing through pressure. Obviously having Winks back and firing would make that easier. But even without him, are we happy with Kane ending up essentially playing as a target man up against Lovren and van Dijk and our creative attacking midfielders looking for knock downs and second balls?

I like the way we approach this. And the way to get better at it is to try and learn from our mistakes along the way. We don't get better at playing through pressure by booting it long to Kane at the first sight of trouble.

I don't think we're gonna turn into 80s Wimbledon by just taking fewer risks in the opening periods to these games. You say earlier "If Dier completed the pass to Sanchez" and to that I say "If Dier had just cleared his lines." Knocking it long early on against Man Utd didn't work out too badly! And hitting Liverpool on the break at Wembley whilst playing out from the back less was far more successful than the tactics we employed at Anfield, which were wrong imo. We did well 2nd half, but compared to what we created against them at Wembley we didn't really do that well overall. Against bigger sides, we've done better this season when we've had less of the ball and played counter attack (Utd at home excepted, and even then the opening goal was scored from a long ball). The Madrid games, Dortmund, Liverpool at Wembley. When we just rocked up and played our normal game v City, we were smashed. When we had 30-something percent possession at Wembley, we could have scored 5 in the first half (and scored 3).

Now I don't necessarily think we need to cede possession all the time against good sides, but I do think it's a prudent approach to be starting the game playing the percentages more. I think we'd have won against Liverpool if we had done that, rather than hand them the initiative with naive football.

 

[billyiddo]

^ It was our dominating approach which saw us turn the first half defecit on it's head and ultimately we looked good value for a win by the end if the game so i think there is justification for Pochettino approaching the game in that manner. Dier doesn't gift Liverpool the chance they score from and maybe the first half would have been a different beast, more inline with what happened in the second, maybe.