Djed Spence

[Yiddo]

Yeah. Also some reports that he didn't want to sign for someone just to go straight out on loan.

A long wait for a start for him. Can only hope he's developing in training and that when he gets his chance he'll be better for it.

He has to become negative and forget how to cross a ball to do well in this team.

 

[braineclipse]

He had to become negative and forget how to cross a ball to do well in this team.

I guess that's tongue in cheek with a hint of something real?

What we've seen with Sessegnon (imo) is a real improvement of his defensive ability first. We've seen Emerson, clearly more defensively solid than an attacking threat getting a lot of trust from Conte. We've seen it elsewhere too, experience and solidity, don't make too many mistakes. That's high up for Conte.

If I had to guess I think Conte doesn't trust Spence defensively yet. And in this system, under Conte, if you're not good enough defensively you'll be seen as a liability and not get the trust to play. Other managers are more accepting of defensive shortcomings as a trade off for attacking quality.

He has one good season in the Championship. We're near the top of the PL, it's a big step up and defensively perhaps more than anything. Facing better teams, better players, more punishment for mistakes.

Do hope to see him get some chances soon. Both as it would be exciting, but also that it would indicate that Conte thinks he's ready. That would be really good for him and us.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I guess that's tongue in cheek with a hint of something real?

What we've seen with Sessegnon (imo) is a real improvement of his defensive ability first. We've seen Emerson, clearly more defensively solid than an attacking threat getting a lot of trust from Conte. We've seen it elsewhere too, experience and solidity, don't make too many mistakes. That's high up for Conte.

If I had to guess I think Conte doesn't trust Spence defensively yet. And in this system, under Conte, if you're not good enough defensively you'll be seen as a liability and not get the trust to play. Other managers are more accepting of defensive shortcomings as a trade off for attacking quality.

He has one good season in the Championship. We're near the top of the PL, it's a big step up and defensively perhaps more than anything. Facing better teams, better players, more punishment for mistakes.

Do hope to see him get some chances soon. Both as it would be exciting, but also that it would indicate that Conte thinks he's ready. That would be really good for him and us.

He's said much the same about Bissouma. Lacking in understanding/adapting to the defensive side of his position (the way Conte wants him to play that is). And you'd guess Bissouma would be much more ready to roll after a successful spell at Brighton and the PL. So it shows the level of requirement.

That said, all these judgements must be made solely from training...so you do end up in a chicken and egg situation if it rolls on too long.

 

[braineclipse]

He's said much the same about Bissouma. Lacking in understanding/adapting to the defensive side of his position (the way Conte wants him to play that is). And you'd guess Bissouma would be much more ready to roll after a successful spell at Brighton and the PL. So it shows the level of requirement.

That said, all these judgements must be made solely from training...so you do end up in a chicken and egg situation if it rolls on too long.

I agree. I think we've seen in the past, particularly under Pochettino, how much young players can grow and grow into roles when shown that trust even though not perhaps fully "ready".

One difference between Conte and someone like Pochettino. Conte wants the players to be closer to a finished product before giving them that trust. More short term term focus perhaps?

Upsides and downsides to both btw imo. No one right way to do things. But for someone like Spence if this goes on for half a season or a full season it may end up feeling like an opportunity missed.

 

[Lilbaz]

He even sent perisic on loan to learn the role required.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

He is undoubtedly ready (and I suspect Conte also feels that) he is a specialist rwb after all of a high level. And there isn’t much unique about Conte’s wing back requirements compared to those required of wing backs at other clubs using wing backs.

Bissouma is not a comparable case as he played in a 3 man midfield at Brighton and went marauding around breaking up play etc, whereas Conte has different needs from him playing in our 2.

Spence is simply missing out because Conte has our two from last year ahead of him because in his view they continue to perform well so there is no reason to not play them when fit. His idea of a rwb upgrade on them two would have been a Hakimi not a Spence so he wont play him unless we are up against Crawley Village or Swindon Supermarket.

There will need to be an injury for him to get a chance to prove he deserves to keep the shirt and failing that he wont play again until a season long loan next season (where imo he will rip it up) or if Doherty starts to show his age and leaves the club next summer. Emerson wont leave primarily because Conte is in love with his physique as much as his ability to play the role.

 

[Lilbaz]

He is undoubtedly ready (and I suspect Conte also feels that) he is a specialist rwb after all of a high level. And there isn’t much unique about Conte’s wing back requirements compared to those required of wing backs at other clubs using wing backs.

Bissouma is not a comparable case as he played in a 3 man midfield at Brighton and went marauding around breaking up play etc, whereas Conte has different needs from him playing in our 2.

Spence is simply missing out because Conte has our two from last year ahead of him because in his view they continue to perform well so there is no reason to not play them when fit. His idea of a rwb upgrade on them two would have been a Hakimi not a Spence so he wont play him unless we are up against Crawley Village or Swindon Supermarket.

There will need to be an injury for him to get a chance to prove he deserves to keep the shirt and failing that he wont play again until a season long loan next season (where imo he will rip it up) or if Doherty starts to show his age and leaves the club next summer. Emerson wont leave primarily because Conte is in love with his physique as much as his ability to play the role.

Undoubtedly is a bit strong. A lot of scout reports from the championship said he had a lot of work to do. Often caught out of position or ball watching but had great potential.

Edit here is one from may. https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/djed-spence/

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He is undoubtedly ready (and I suspect Conte also feels that) he is a specialist rwb after all of a high level. And there isn’t much unique about Conte’s wing back requirements compared to those required of wing backs at other clubs using wing backs.

Bissouma is not a comparable case as he played in a 3 man midfield at Brighton and went marauding around breaking up play etc, whereas Conte has different needs from him playing in our 2.

Spence is simply missing out because Conte has our two from last year ahead of him because in his view they continue to perform well so there is no reason to not play them when fit. His idea of a rwb upgrade on them two would have been a Hakimi not a Spence so he wont play him unless we are up against Crawley Village or Swindon Supermarket.

There will need to be an injury for him to get a chance to prove he deserves to keep the shirt and failing that he wont play again until a season long loan next season (where imo he will rip it up) or if Doherty starts to show his age and leaves the club next summer. Emerson wont leave primarily because Conte is in love with his physique as much as his ability to play the role.

I think you're too bullish on him.

He's a championship player by way of that is the highest level he's played at. He had a very good season for Forest BUT even then you have to remember he was on loan there from a team that didn't fancy him (for whatever reason).

Fwiw, I think he has the blend of Royal and Doherty and doesn't look to be wanting for energy or physique. But it's up to Conte at the end of the day . It makes me wonder how deep in injuries and/or suspensions we'll have to be for Spence to get the nod.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think you're too bullish on him.

He's a championship player by way of that is the highest level he's played at. He had a very good season for Forest BUT even then you have to remember he was on loan there from a team that didn't fancy him (for whatever reason).

Fwiw, I think he has the blend of Royal and Doherty and doesn't look to be wanting for energy or physique. But it's up to Conte at the end of the day . It makes me wonder how deep in injuries and/or suspensions we'll have to be for Spence to get the nod.

Think he'll come on as a sub in the next 2 games (everton more likely).

 

[Grays_1890]

I think you're too bullish on him.

He's a championship player by way of that is the highest level he's played at. He had a very good season for Forest BUT even then you have to remember he was on loan there from a team that didn't fancy him (for whatever reason).
.

All players have to come from somewhere and springboard from somewhere though so its not really an issue where they come from as long as they are good enough. Seen many come from bigger clubs fail and its rare many come through our system (same for other prem clubs) so the idea there is a set route that players take to the top is slightly flawed.

 

[Bullet]

I think Conte got confirmation tonight, against Frankfurt, that even against 10 men, if you make 5 subs, players lose focus and can drop down a gear and suddenly the game comes down to a late scuffle in the box.
Conte will be wary of a repeat of that scenario, he wants older heads and calm execution.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

he wants older heads and calm execution.

So you're saying Harry is off penalties?

 

[thfcsteff]

I think you're too bullish on him.

He's a championship player by way of that is the highest level he's played at. He had a very good season for Forest BUT even then you have to remember he was on loan there from a team that didn't fancy him (for whatever reason).

Fwiw, I think he has the blend of Royal and Doherty and doesn't look to be wanting for energy or physique. But it's up to Conte at the end of the day . It makes me wonder how deep in injuries and/or suspensions we'll have to be for Spence to get the nod.

I think we will see him at Forest in the CC for sure, and if we have already qualified for the CL knock-outs (especially as top of the group) in Marseille. His time will come but not so much this season I don’t think.

 

[metalgear]

I think Conte got confirmation tonight, against Frankfurt, that even against 10 men, if you make 5 subs, players lose focus and can drop down a gear and suddenly the game comes down to a late scuffle in the box.
Conte will be wary of a repeat of that scenario, he wants older heads and calm execution.

Opposite team plays 343 goes a man down and makes as many subs without losing focus, relative to us.

 

[parklane1]

I think Conte got confirmation tonight, against Frankfurt, that even against 10 men, if you make 5 subs, players lose focus and can drop down a gear and suddenly the game comes down to a late scuffle in the box.
Conte will be wary of a repeat of that scenario, he wants older heads and calm execution.

Said the same to my mate last night, fans moan about not making many subs but as last night showed it can and does backfire.

 

[papaspur]

Said the same to my mate last night, fans moan about not making many subs but as last night showed it can and does backfire.

I think most of us were complaining that we didn't make subs when we're drawing/trailing a match. Your point is absolutely valid when we're ahead since there could be a hint of complacency that creeps into the team.
Moura was brought on as a CM, that pretty much sums it up for me. Also, the other team made a lot of subs and then scored a goal even while a man down so that's an argument for making subs, no? Mostly playing devil's advocate there but it's all situational; any judgment needs to occur in the proper context.

 

[parklane1]

I think most of us were complaining that we didn't make subs when we're drawing/trailing a match. Your point is absolutely valid when we're ahead since there could be a hint of complacency that creeps into the team.
Moura was brought on as a CM, that pretty much sums it up for me. Also, the other team made a lot of subs and then scored a goal even while a man down so that's an argument for making subs, no? Mostly playing devil's advocate there but it's all situational; any judgment needs to occur in the proper context.

Some of what you say is fair comment, however i have heard at most matches fans bitching about not making this or that sub, when we are winning or losing.

 

[papaspur]

Some of what you say is fair comment, however i have heard at most matches fans bitching about not making this or that sub, when we are winning or losing.

I think we'd have to look at each match individually to figure out whether Conte should've done more or was right in his decision-making. Also, let's look at this season under the proper context: there's a World Cup sticking out like a sore in the middle of the season, thus condensing the domestic league season into less time which means more fatigue. We have to look at the bigger picture here to prevent running our players into the ground by the new year. I get what you're saying though, some fans do think they know better than the manager. For me, I just get a bit confused sometimes but he's done an impossible job for us so far, hopefully he decides to stick around.

I've wanted to see Spence because Royal is just not good enough for me, but I also get that Spence has other players ahead of him so it's not fair at all for those guys to get looked over either. It's not that I don't trust Conte, I get his comments from last season about looking at the bench, then looking back at the pitch. Not many options when it came to squad management but this season, I feel like we can actually have these discussions about who warrants a start etc. and that's a healthy thing. We've come a long way when we can actually think about benching Kane for a match so he can get a proper rest.

 

[parklane1]

I think we'd have to look at each match individually to figure out whether Conte should've done more or was right in his decision-making. Also, let's look at this season under the proper context: there's a World Cup sticking out like a sore in the middle of the season, thus condensing the domestic league season into less time which means more fatigue. We have to look at the bigger picture here to prevent running our players into the ground by the new year. I get what you're saying though, some fans do think they know better than the manager. For me, I just get a bit confused sometimes but he's done an impossible job for us so far, hopefully he decides to stick around.

I've wanted to see Spence because Royal is just not good enough for me, but I also get that Spence has other players ahead of him so it's not fair at all for those guys to get looked over either. It's not that I don't trust Conte, I get his comments from last season about looking at the bench, then looking back at the pitch. Not many options when it came to squad management but this season, I feel like we can actually have these discussions about who warrants a start etc. and that's a healthy thing. We've come a long way when we can actually think about benching Kane for a match so he can get a proper rest.

Again i I can't dance with a lot of what you say there, personally i think having 5 subs allowed into games is the big problem and that is what gets fans moaning about it more. I accept why they made the choice to go for five but for me it upsets the balance of games when that many are made.

 

[papaspur]

Again i I can't dance with a lot of what you say there, personally i think having 5 subs allowed into games is the big problem and that is what gets fans moaning about it more. I accept why they made the choice to go for five but for me it upsets the balance of games when that many are made.

I assumed that this decision would only be for this season, hopefully it's not here to stay. Would the clubs have to vote on it again for reverting it next season?