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Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Great find Steve. IF RA was serious about buying us, and he was rebuffed by a 'silly price', then that would be the saddest day in our history. A once in a lifetime opportunity to become a major player in British and European football once again. Plus Chelsea left facing administration as a beautiful bonus.
If that's what happened then it's the best thing Levy ever did.

If RA owned Spurs it would make us as classless as the new money chavs down the road.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

For me, all CH would need to do better is win two trophies in fourteen years and keep us in the Prem, and I'm fairly confident that any reasonably competent set of owners could manage that.

When you consider that in the 14 years previous to ENIC we won the FA Cup and League Cup, compared to ENIC's one Lge Cup, it's not too hard a task. Especially considering that in those previous 14 years we were owned by Sugar and Scholar, who have been massively criticised by our fans, often with justification. Yet still they delivered two trophies and two 3rd places in the same time frame as ENIC's one Lge Cup and two fourth place finishes..

So as I suggested, ENIC have hardly set the bar high, and hence my confidence (though of course not certainty) that CH could outperform them.

Have a look at the squad we had when ENIC took over compared to where we are now when Cain Hoy potentially will take over. Not exactly the same starting spot is it? To look only at cup wins as a measure of success seems rather biased.

How likely do you think it is that new owners will be at least "reasonaby competent" by your standards?
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I know it's backwards of me, but I'd really prefer to see us carry on as we are. I want us to be a club that produces great players, be that buying promising youngsters or developing our own youth. Two or Three quality buys but not an entire team. I'd feel happier about seeing us get somewhere with that model than the the Emirates Marketing Project/Chelski one.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I know it's backwards of me, but I'd really prefer to see us carry on as we are. I want us to be a club that produces great players, be that buying promising youngsters or developing our own youth. Two or Three quality buys but not an entire team. I'd feel happier about seeing us get somewhere with that model than the the Emirates Marketing Project/Chelski one.

Agreed.

I also want to see where the current direction of our academy will take us. A brilliant academy (not saying ours is, yet) can be worth a lot more than some short term player investments.

With Livermore, Kane, Caulker, Townsend and now Carroll we have at least 5 PL players that are proper academy products from us playing PL football. Pritchard is on his way there too. That, as far as I can see, is very solid. Still waiting for "the next big thing" to come out of our academy, but it's surely a numbers game.

That's not counting players that were signed as (relative) youngsters like Rose and Bentaleb, although the ability to further develop players like that is obviously also very valuable.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If this article is to believed, Levy quoted Abramovich an exorbitant price and Roman decided that Chelsea was a better investment...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2421675/Levy-breaks-his-silence-on-Abramovich-link.html

Than **** for that.
This is a guy who's company stole oil and all the infrastructure behind oil from the Russian state through intimidation. Then the company paid him billions in profits as dividends whilst buying off Putin and the like.
Then he comes to Britain to protect his money welcomed with open arms by the slime in Westminster and trys to build respectability through football
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Fair play to all those who disagree with me, and are happy with ENIC/glad we didn't go down the City/Chelsea route.

There's an absolute schism between those views and my own, but c'est la foot. I know I'm still very much in a minority on this, I'd have thought after 14 years and one Lge Cup some more 'voters' would have been switching sides, but from this thread at least, apparently not.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

i think there is growing number of Spurs fans who share your view Shelfie, tbf - id hazard a guess that it's probably around 60-40
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Fair play to all those who disagree with me, and are happy with ENIC/glad we didn't go down the City/Chelsea route.

There's an absolute schism between those views and my own, but c'est la foot. I know I'm still very much in a minority on this, I'd have thought after 14 years and one Lge Cup some more 'voters' would have been switching sides, but from this thread at least, apparently not.

I can't believe people actually are pleased that Chelsea became a worldwide phenomenon while we languished in the relative obscurity of upper mid-table. They won trophies and league titles galore, became the first London club to win the CL, and are now recognised as the biggest club in London by a huge number of overseas football supporters.....while we plodded along consolidating our position and winning one League Cup, trying painfully to get a stadium built without the owner spending anything, laughing in glee as we registered net profit after net profit in transfer windows, as our best players left us citing our lack of ambition and their desires to play for 'bigger' clubs, and as manager after manager kept climbing hopefully up to Levy's office and emerging ashen-faced shortly afterwards, their 'transfer shortlists' crumpled up in their fists. And yet, people think this austerity is good and wholesome, like the Byzantine stylites from the days of old who tortured themselves by sitting mostly unclothed on top of windy, often scorching pillars in the desert because they thought it would bring them closer to GHod.

We had a chance to end Chelsea forever: they'd have gone into administration if RA hadn't bought them. We would have become the London club everyone had heard about (well, apart from those clams down the road, anyway). We'd have become the first London club to win the CL, and to win all those PL titles and FA Cups. And if the reply should arise 'well, all those trophies don't count because they weren't won fairly'......in ten, twenty, thirty years, do you really think people would give a damn about how Chelsea won their trophies? Those trophies are etched into their (and football's) history: the circumstances behind those trophies are rarely remembered down the line, and football history has proven this time and again. All people will remember thirty years from now is that Chelsea were the first London club to win the CL. Same logic goes for City, to be honest. And that could have been us.

Like Shelfie says, fair play to those that disagree with this view, but history won't give a damn about us when they portray this period in our history as being the most barren and lifeless one for many, many years: I'm just surprised that so many people are completely accepting and even delighted at that fact.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If this article is to believed, Levy quoted Abramovich an exorbitant price and Roman decided that Chelsea was a better investment...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2421675/Levy-breaks-his-silence-on-Abramovich-link.html

Yes, I've read that article a few times over the years.

As I said, Abramovich was clearly never serious about buying Spurs.

If he had been, he would have made an offer. He wasn't a wet behind the years rookie in business at the time. He was a billionaire eight times over. He knew the score. If you ask the owner of a company how much it would take to buy his company, he will NEVER give you a true valuation - unless he's an idiot. And Levy is no idiot. A savvy company owner will either give you no response at all, and wait for you to make the first move, or he will give you a hugely inflated valuation as a starting point for negotiations (or, as was the case with Abramovich, to weed out time wasters).

If Abramovich had been serious about Spurs, he would have seen Levy's response as the beginning of a game. The to and fro of negotiations would have commenced. But he did nothing. He clearly wasn't seriously interested. And to be fair, why would he have been when the alternative was Chelsea? Stamford Bridge is a short, easy drive from his Kensington home. White Hart Lane is a good hour's drive. Stamford Bridge is in a relatively smart, affluent area. White Hart Lane is in one of the most deprived areas of London (and rich Russians in London don't do deprived areas). Stamford Bridge was a 42K stadium that came with a couple of hotels attached. White Hart Lane was a 36K stadium that came with the Chanticleer attached (for those that remember!). Chelsea was, on and off, a Champions League team that had won the odd trophy over the previous six or seven years. Spurs was a club that languished in mid to lower table and rarely challenged for trophies.

More important still, Chelsea was a distressed seller. They were in debt to the tune of £100m+ and they were due to go into administration within three days. They were in last chance saloon. And that's where savvy buyers go shopping for bargains. By contrast, ENIC had no pressing reason to sell. Relatively speaking, they had only just got their feet under the desk. The club was in good financial health. And given what has happened since and how the club's value has grown, you'd have to admit that Levy was perfectly within his rights to quote Zahavi a figure that was well above market rate. Why should ENIC have sold their stake unless they were made an offer that was way over the odds?

Last but not least, Ken Bates spoke for (even if he didn't own) all the shares in Chelsea, so there were no complications with buying 100% of the company - important for a man planning to pump billions into it. By contrast, ENIC spoke for only 30% of Spurs shares. There were something in the region of 20,000 other shareholders at the time. Messy. In this respect too, therefore, Chelsea would have been comfortably the superior option.
 
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Well they would have to match the investment ENIC have put into us I guess, but again that's hardly setting the bar high is it. What have ENIC invested, about 150m over 14 years, including the purchase price? About 80m, discounting what it cost to buy us?

I would expect any competent set of owners to match that. Indeed considering one of our main problems coming up is likely to be the eye watering price ENIC ask for us (about 500m plus stadium costs?), just buying us will mean new owners will have ploughed far more into the club than ENIC.

I do grant that new owners might not want to invest significantly more having met ENIC's demands. Then for me it's unlikely I'll see them as competent owners, unless of course the new stadium revenue monies are sufficient for us to better ENIC's one lge cup in 14 years.

ENIC's total investment into Tottenham is actually £66m (£11m towards the £15m share issue in 2004; all of the £15m raised by share placement in 2009; and a £40m loan earlier this year that will be converted into equity).

And if a new owner of Spurs was to invest as much as or more than that into the club, that wouldn't necessarily make them competent. Sacha Gaydamak invested plenty into Portsmouth. And he ruined the club. Rich but incompetent.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

This Glazers v Abramovich discussion..............I can't believe that some people would prefer the Glazers!

I don't like the fact that Abramovich and Mansour have bought success for their teams - mostly because Spurs, more than any other club, has suffered as a consequence. But there is nothing wrong with what they've done. Why shouldn't a company owner be allowed to invest in it? It happens in countless other businesses in every other business sector, after all. And, to be honest, the notion that financial inequality and being able to buy success is just fine and dandy so long as the money has been earned.......that doesn't wash. It's still not true and fair sport. The likes of Man Utd and Arsenal just happened to be successful at the right time, soon after the advent of both the Premier League and the Champions League (and the huge rise in revenues that came with them). As a consequence, they found themselves in a virtuous circle - success leading to money; leading to more success; leading to more money leading to........and so on ad infinitum. Is it right that they should henceforward forever occupy the top table and keep the rest (including Spurs) out? Just because of fortuitous timing on their part?

I don't think it is.

And if the only way to break out of the vicious cycle in which we find ourselves is as the beneficiaries of a generous and fabulously wealthy owner, then I would feel no shame in it. Especially not now that two clubs have already jumped the queue by precisely such means. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, there are only two ways in which club football could ever become a fair test of sporting prowess again - either all clubs have to share all income on a strictly equal basis (or at least, all clubs must spend the same amount on wages and signings) or all clubs must be allowed to spend as much as their owner allows them to spend (so long as their owner has already made over the funds to the club).

The former is a lovely idea but is never going to happen. The latter, by contrast, is easily workable and at least promises the potential, in the future, for upward mobility for clubs that find themselves outside the elite.

As to the Glazers, they are odious parasites - leeching £60m per annum out of the game (£600m in total now) to fund their debts. It is the greatest irony of FFP that they are allowed to carry on regardless while those who have invested in the game have been put in a financial straightjacket.
 
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Yes, I've read that article a few times over the years.

As I said, Abramovich was clearly never serious about buying Spurs.

If he had been, he would have made an offer. He wasn't a wet behind the years rookie in business at the time. He was a billionaire eight times over. He knew the score. If you ask the owner of a company how much it would take to buy his company, the owner will NEVER give you a true valuation - unless he's an idiot. And Levy is no idiot. A savvy company owner will either give you no response at all, and wait for you to make the first move, or he will give you a hugely inflated valuation as a starting point for negotiations (or, as was the case with Abramovich, to weed out time wasters).

If Abramovich had been serious about Spurs, he would have seen Levy's response as the beginning of a game. The to and fro of negotiations would have commenced. But he did nothing. He clearly wasn't seriously interested. And to be fair, why would he have been when the alternative was Chelsea? Stamford Bridge is a short, easy drive from his Kensington home. White Hart Lane is a good hour's drive. Stamford Bridge is in a relatively smart, affluent area. White Hart Lane is in one of the most deprived areas of London (and rich Russians in London don't do deprived areas). Stamford Bridge was a 42K stadium that came with a couple of hotels attached. White Hart Lane was a 36K stadium that came with the Chanticleer attached (for those that remember!). Chelsea was, on and off, a Champions League team that had won the odd trophy over the previous six or seven years. Spurs was a club that languished in mid to lower table and rarely challenged for trophies.

Let's not forget, too, that Chelsea was a distressed seller. They were in debt to the tune of £100m+ and they were due to go into administration within three days. They were in last chance saloon. And that's where savvy buyers go shopping for bargains. By contrast, ENIC had no pressing reason to sell. Relatively speaking, they had only just got their feet under the desk. The club was in good financial health. And given what has happened since and how the club's value has grown, you'd have to admit that Levy was perfectly within his rights to quote Zahavi a figure that was well above market rate. Why should ENIC have sold their stake unless they were made an offer that was way over the odds?

Last but not least, Ken Bates spoke for (even if he didn't own) all the shares in Chelsea, so there were no complications with buying 100% of the company - important for a man planning to pump billions into it. By contrast, ENIC spoke for only 30% of Spurs shares. There were something in the region of 20,000 other shareholders at the time. Messy. In this respect too, therefore, Chelsea would have been comfortably the superior option.

Can you turn a few of your excellent posts like this one into blog posts or a website so that every time people come along taking potshots at ENIC and dreaming of what could have been, they can just be directed to www.SpursCheatskiRomanENIC.com please? Otherwise you'll be typing them all out every month for the rest of your life.

Ditto your posts in the Stadium Thread. I'm sure there are hundreds like me who can't be bothered any more to wade in and argue about it again, so hats off to you for persisting over the last few years.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I can't believe people actually are pleased that Chelsea became a worldwide phenomenon while we languished in the relative obscurity of upper mid-table. They won trophies and league titles galore, became the first London club to win the CL, and are now recognised as the biggest club in London by a huge number of overseas football supporters.....while we plodded along consolidating our position and winning one League Cup, trying painfully to get a stadium built without the owner spending anything, laughing in glee as we registered net profit after net profit in transfer windows, as our best players left us citing our lack of ambition and their desires to play for 'bigger' clubs, and as manager after manager kept climbing hopefully up to Levy's office and emerging ashen-faced shortly afterwards, their 'transfer shortlists' crumpled up in their fists. And yet, people think this austerity is good and wholesome, like the Byzantine stylites from the days of old who tortured themselves by sitting mostly unclothed on top of windy, often scorching pillars in the desert because they thought it would bring them closer to GHod.

We had a chance to end Chelsea forever: they'd have gone into administration if RA hadn't bought them. We would have become the London club everyone had heard about (well, apart from those clams down the road, anyway). We'd have become the first London club to win the CL, and to win all those PL titles and FA Cups. And if the reply should arise 'well, all those trophies don't count because they weren't won fairly'......in ten, twenty, thirty years, do you really think people would give a damn about how Chelsea won their trophies? Those trophies are etched into their (and football's) history: the circumstances behind those trophies are rarely remembered down the line, and football history has proven this time and again. All people will remember thirty years from now is that Chelsea were the first London club to win the CL. Same logic goes for City, to be honest. And that could have been us.

Like Shelfie says, fair play to those that disagree with this view, but history won't give a damn about us when they portray this period in our history as being the most barren and lifeless one for many, many years: I'm just surprised that so many people are completely accepting and even delighted at that fact.

When I die, I will leave behind (among other things of course) a wonderful set of Tottenham Hotspur memories. A sense that we always tried to do things the right way. And a pride in what our club is known for by people who know football; not the new crop of 'trophy hunters' but people who understand what this beautiful game is at it's best of hearts. I probably could've played the stock-market and got filthy rich too, but I elected to take another path there too, one which involved living life and placing time as the priority commodity in my life over money.

If we had been owned by Abramovich, I'm sure the chaffinch in me would accept the trophies which came. But it would be a lot emptier. One of the main reasons I got so angry at Redknapp was because he got so close to delivering 'the dream' for me. Trophies and entertainment.

It's coming. I know we're going to end up being bought by big money. I just hope it is someone like the Liverpool owner John Henry, whip have injected financial support yet managed to maintain the underlying club culture.

Abramovich? No thanks. Oligarch money? No thanks. Middle Eastern money? I don't think we need to worry about that. Far Eastern money? No thanks.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Last but not least, Ken Bates spoke for (even if he didn't own) all the shares in Chelsea, so there were no complications with buying 100% of the company - important for a man planning to pump billions into it. By contrast, ENIC spoke for only 30% of Spurs shares. There were something in the region of 20,000 other shareholders at the time. Messy. In this respect too, therefore, Chelsea would have been comfortably the superior option.

Jimmy, you know full well that if someone owns 30% of a company they have the right to purchase the other 70%. There would not have been any difficulty in purchasing the remaining 70%. Ultimately owners of that 70% would have got a cheque in the post. ;)
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Agreed Jimmy.

Just because ManU and ARSEnal happen to be bankrolled by legions of plastic fans across the globe rather than a billionaire benefactor doesn't make it any more right that they should be allowed to financially dominate the Premier League, as they use to before Abramovich and Mansour upset the status quo.

And whilst it is annoying that Spurs have been overtaken by these nouveau riche, at least they have ensured that Wenger hasn't added to ARSEnal' haul of league titles since 2004.

In decades to come, as Shelfie and Dubai say, few will remember how Chelsea and City became the dominant forces in English football and they'll eventually have their own hordes of plastic fans across the globe to swell their coffers long after the oil money dries up.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Jimmy, you know full well that if someone owns 30% of a company they have the right to purchase the other 70%. There would not have been any difficulty in purchasing the remaining 70%. Ultimately owners of that 70% would have got a cheque in the post. ;)

Err...............no, they don't!

I think you're getting confused with the fact that, once an investor's shareholding in a particular company reaches the 30% threshold, he is obliged by Stock Market rules to make a mandatory offer for all remaining shares in the company. That absolutely does NOT mean that the shareholders who own the other 70% of the shares are obliged to accept his offer!

What you're thinking of is a "squeeze out" - when a majority shareholder has enough shares to be able to enforce a compulsory purchase of the remaining shares in the company. And on the London Stock Exchange, that threshold is 90%.

So ENIC (or Abramovich, if he had chosen to buy ENIC's 30%) were 60% short. That's quite a lot. ;)
 
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Agreed Jimmy.

Just because ManU and ARSEnal happen to be bankrolled by legions of plastic fans across the globe rather than a billionaire benefactor doesn't make it any more right that they should be allowed to financially dominate the Premier League, as they use to before Abramovich and Mansour upset the status quo.

And whilst it is annoying that Spurs have been overtaken by these nouveau riche, at least they have ensured that Wenger hasn't added to ARSEnal' haul of league titles since 2004.

In decades to come, as Shelfie and Dubai say, few will remember how Chelsea and City became the dominant forces in English football and they'll eventually have their own hordes of plastic fans across the globe to swell their coffers long after the oil money dries up.

Spot on, mate.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

ITK from Billy White on COYS. Apparently, he posts very rarely but, when he does, it's normally pretty reliable:

This is bang on the money. I've just had a conversation with an old source who confirmed that this is a full takeover and it's very likely going to happen. Very good credentials on the people involved with Cain Hoy, lots to be excited about. Wish I could speak to more specifics, but there is a TON at play here. More to come when I can, as always.
BW

I don't see how he can say that it's "bang on the money". It will only be so if Cain Hoy bid and are successful! I think he probably just meant that it was from a good source.

As to "there is a TON at play here", if I had to guess, I'd say that he's at least partially referring to his own itk from a number of months back - all about the NFL link. And / or there could be a wider property angle to Cain Hoy's bid for Spurs.

Whatever, I guess this story isn't going away in a hurry.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

As to the Glazers, they are odious parasites - leeching £60m per annum out of the game (£600m in total now)

Rather a family taking money off a company than Abrahamovic and and the Mansours who have stolen their wealth from millions of ordinary people.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Rather a family taking money off a company than Abrahamovic and and the Mansours who have stolen their wealth from millions of ordinary people.

That's not the point, though.

The particular histories of Abramovich and Mansour aren't the subject under discussion. The point that some people are making is that they'd rather the club be subject to a leveraged buyout and farmed for money than it be the beneficiary of a billionaire's generosity.

That, to me, seems utterly bizarre!
 
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