Black Lives Matter

[scaramanga]

It is more than just the wording . A normal president would try and defuse the situation, not throw a lit match into dry tinder. The quote "When the looting starts, the shooting starts" originated by a racist white Miami police chief named Walter Headley who targeted black people in 1967 ahead of the Republican convention. I don't condone the rioting obviously, but I do think the powers that be should be attempting to calm rather than inflame the situation.

In Trump's mind, fomenting racial tensions and the ensuing chaos may be of benefit to him in depressing the black vote. This is out of the Russian active measures playbook from the 2016 election, and they are employing the same tactics again. This is Trumps only motivation - not what is good for America. He gives not one fudge about that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/politics/russian-interference-race.html

I'd be inclined to believe that someone's already been trying to resolve this peacefully, rather than everyone having sat on their hands since it started.

I've found two sources of great amusement in all of this.

1. People who are normally very anti gun ownership are now wishing the people had a way of stopping the govt from using force like this
2. Troll accounts on twitter are spreading rumours that the NG can and will unleash air strikes on the city. Millennials getting all panicky and frantic about it is funny.

 

[Rorschach]

I'd be inclined to believe that someone's already been trying to resolve this peacefully, rather than everyone having sat on their hands since it started.

I've found two sources of great amusement in all of this.

1. People who are normally very anti gun ownership are now wishing the people had a way of stopping the govt from using force like this
2. Troll accounts on twitter are spreading rumours that the NG can and will unleash air strikes on the city. Millennials getting all panicky and frantic about it is funny.

Yeah yeah I heard you the first time.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not sure something that has occurred over multiple generations, disproportionately to black people in the United States should be swept aside as an 'add on...'

well I’d argue that they killed a person first and foremost
His race, colour and anything else is less relevant
The fact that he was a black man adds to the issue but ultimately they killed someone by being poor at their job
It could have been a white man, a Hispanic lady or an Asian transsexual for all I care. The issue IMO is that the police have killed someone by doing their job so badly

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It is more than just the wording . A normal president would try and defuse the situation, not throw a lit match into dry tinder. The quote "When the looting starts, the shooting starts" originated by a racist white Miami police chief named Walter Headley who targeted black people in 1967 ahead of the Republican convention. I don't condone the rioting obviously, but I do think the powers that be should be attempting to calm rather than inflame the situation.

In Trump's mind, fomenting racial tensions and the ensuing chaos may be of benefit to him in depressing the black vote. This is out of the Russian active measures playbook from the 2016 election, and they are employing the same tactics again. This is Trumps only motivation - not what is good for America. He gives not one fudge about that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/politics/russian-interference-race.html

He is far far from a normal man met alone president

 

[AuroRaman]

His race, colour and anything else is less relevant. It could have been a white man, a Hispanic lady or an Asian transsexual for all I care.

Can you see the position of privilege within this line of thinking? This is not singling you out, this is a very normal response and I'm absolutely positive your opinion is based with sincerity.

 

[Rorschach]

That's interesting. As somebody who had no prior knowledge of the phrase and therefore interpreted it purely at it's face value, I actually found the specific targetting of looters (as opposed to more general protesters) quite nuanced by Trump's standards.

Not to mention appropriate.

I didn't know it myself either to be honest until it was pointed out on twitter. Someone in Trump's orbit certainly knew though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Can you see the position of privilege within this line of thinking? This is not singling you out, this is a very normal response and I'm absolutely positive your opinion is based with sincerity.

no it’s not about privilege or being a white male
It’s about the fact the police killed someone and the reasoning is deemed to be race... I’d argue on the basis the guy has previous with people form mixed backgrounds it’s more to do with the fact he was an angry incompetent person. I mean one of the guys working with him is of Asian origin so equally someone who could be deemed to have be treated racially by the police in the states too, except this guy was a policeman himself

 

[AuroRaman]

no it’s not about privilege or being a white male
It’s about the fact the police killed someone and the reasoning is deemed to be race... I’d argue on the basis the guy has previous with people form mixed backgrounds it’s more to do with the fact he was an angry incompetent person. I mean one of the guys working with him is of Asian origin so equally someone who could be deemed to have be treated racially by the police in the states too, except this guy was a policeman himself

Fair enough. I disagree but I see your line of thought.

 

[JerusalemMan]

no it’s not about privilege or being a white male
It’s about the fact the police killed someone and the reasoning is deemed to be race... I’d argue on the basis the guy has previous with people form mixed backgrounds it’s more to do with the fact he was an angry incompetent person. I mean one of the guys working with him is of Asian origin so equally someone who could be deemed to have be treated racially by the police in the states too, except this guy was a policeman himself

Though of course racism can manifest itself in particular dislike of one specific skin colour/race as well as believing in the superiority of your own above all others.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough. I disagree but I see your line of thought.

Hey that’s fine
For me it’s scum like this policeman who scare me
Their in a position of power and clearly in his case have got away with plenty before hand
The other experienced cop also had priors
I mean that alone is mental

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Though of course racism can manifest itself in particular dislike of one specific skin colour/race as well as believing in the superiority of your own above all others.

True
Very true
I’ve been assaulted by some Indian lads in Bedford as they wanted to hit a white guy
Luckily my Indian mates knew the lads, stopped it and gave them a shoeing
I was 12

 

[Parklaner81]

I didn't know it myself either to be honest until it was pointed out on twitter. Someone in Trump's orbit certainly knew though.

To be honest, and without intending to sound in any way condescending I suspected that, because your original objection to the tweet seemed to be with its face-value signalling of harsh action, rather than any perceived racial undercurrent to it.

I think it's entirely possible he's used the phrase without any knowledge of this connotation. It's very much a 'Trump'-style phrase on it's own, without any background to it. Could somebody have mischieviously planted the phrase in his head, with full knowledge of the racial connotation? That's possible. But my gut feeling is that this was just Trump being Trump - and by that, I mean he was wheeling out a trashy phrase to get his message across, rather than intending any racial slight.

What I have far less doubt about is that this will now be used to inflame the situation still further.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I agree with all of that...However, I do think you will find there's a few that disagree with your first paragraph and will lay the cause of all the world's ills at the feet of one particular race of people..

With regards to the USA. They have a murder rate of 5 for every 100,000. By European, Canadian and Australian standards, they're doing poorly. Europe and Australia are at around 1 for every 100,000 whilst Canada is 1.5 per 100,000.

In the Far East, countries such as South Korea, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, are all at around 1 per 100,000... Whilst the Japanese police, generally spend most of their days twiddling their thumbs as their nation's murder rate is around 0.26 per 100,000.

South Africa 26 years after their freedom from Apartheid and they have a murder rate of nearly 40 per 100,000. El Salvador 52, Honduras 39, Mexico 29 per 100,000.

Back to the USA, it should be noted that most of the gun crime is committed with the use of an illegal firearm.

Is the subtext/point you are pushing, that where there are black people there are more murders?

The statistical rule of a correlation is not to infer causation, and you haven't. Is economic standing/poverty the third - crucial - variable? If so, people making pre-judgments about black people is probably what keeps them poorer? Certainly in America where the shadow of slavery is still casting its shadow - imo.

 

[Rorschach]

To be honest, and without intending to sound in any way condescending I suspected that, because your original objection to the tweet seemed to be with its face-value signalling of harsh action, rather than any perceived racial undercurrent to it.

I think it's entirely possible he's used the phrase without any knowledge of this connotation. It's very much a 'Trump'-style phrase on it's own, without any background to it. Could somebody have mischieviously planted the phrase in his head, with full knowledge of the racial connotation? That's possible. But my gut feeling is that this was just Trump being Trump - and by that, I mean he was wheeling out a trashy phrase to get his message across, rather than intending any racial slight.

What I have far less doubt about is that it will now be used to inflame the situation still further.

My objection was to both, his heavy-handed rhetoric and the racial undertones. I knew the context before my original post. What he knew of that quote when he posted that tweet can not be determined, but frankly he is a racist and runs with racists so I won't give him any benefit of the doubt on this. If I was guessing who supplied him the quote I would guess that ghoul Miller.

 

[jts1882]

That's interesting. As somebody who had no prior knowledge of the phrase and therefore interpreted it purely at it's face value, I actually found the specific targetting of looters (as opposed to more general protesters) quite nuanced by Trump's standards.

Not to mention appropriate.

The apparent nuance should have been a warning. When Trump seems nuanced and appropriate, we should know there is a catch.

Police chief's of old were quite colourful characters. There is a famous quote from Frank Rizzo, former police commissioner and then Mayor of Philadelphia that under his watch the police force built up "enough firepower to invade Cuba and win". The gun-toting culture seems to survive in some forces.

Frank Rizzo
The Breaker of Heads

... let’s focus here on his response to accusations of police brutality. Mayor Rizzo, who served from 1972 to 1980, went on national TV after the U.S. Justice Department sued him, the police department and 19 other city officials. Rizzo, accused of systematic brutality against minorities, told Prime Time Sunday the police department was strong enough “to invade Cuba and win.” (At least he was not planning on invading Cuba and losing.) “We have permitted the criminals and the ultraliberals to have a voice in the media. Guys like me have no voice,” the mayor of a city said on a national TV show. “But I’m going to be heard.”

When asked if he wanted to break the heads of criminals, he had a terse reply: “Break their heads is right. They are trying to break yours and you break theirs first.”

https://www.phillymag.com/city/2015/04/26/weird-philadelphia-mayor-stories/

 

[wiziwig]

It's now come out but not loudly stated by the MSM, that the cop Derek Chauvin who's accused of murdering George Floyd, were at one time work colleagues, working as security at a nightclub.

It seems, they've got history..

 

[scaramanga]

It's now come out but not loudly stated by the MSM, that the cop Derek Chauvin who's accused of murdering George Floyd, were at one time work colleagues, working as security at a nightclub.

It seems, they've got history..

The initial autopsy hasn't gained much press - that's what's more worrying.

 

[wiziwig]

I'm confused what point you are trying to make here (in amongst the foaming at the mouth). She behaved inappropriately and was rightly called out for her behaviour. The narrative in the video is THE narrative, did you even watch it?? You can bring her politics into it if you want, but racism is racism, whatever political ideology or construct she supports. She was contrite about it and accepted the backlash and the loss of her job. She was rightly condemned for it and it once again shone a light on the systems and structures of oppression in place which made her feel she could call on the NYPD a as a personal security service because a black man asked her to put her dog on a leash. She was sacked because of her actions, anyone without bias and even half a brain cell can understand that. The speed in which it happened makes a change to how it usually plays out for people who are the victims of oppression in these situations.

You know that calling out privilege and institutionalised forms of oppression doesn't instantly equate to hating white people, you know that right? I know it's upsetting to hear this when the only thing you can identify with is your political leanings and skin colour, but I hope you find the help you need at some point.

You're confused? Well I'm not ...This thread is called, Another shooting in America... I put up a couple of links up, one, regarding an elderly couple shot dead in a cemetery whilst attending their sons grave and another, about a postal worker shot dead by a young thug... Both shooters were black...

You and others on here didn't acknowledged the grizzly murders, which of course is your right. @SpurMeUp had a peep and described them as mundane...

However you and others on here lose your brick about a small white woman using her 'white privilege' against a burly black man in a forest..

Okay I'll go along with your flow, it's a white woman being racist.. So like when did this thread become racism by white people against black people in America? It's about people shooting people, yes? ...

Why don't you start up a thread about white racism towards black people.

 

[wiziwig]

The initial autopsy hasn't gained much press - that's what's more worrying.

What have you found out?

 

[scaramanga]

What have you found out?

It's there in the BBC and Washington Post reports, but as a passing mention.

The initial report shows no trauma to the windpipe and mentions likely high drug levels (awaiting full toxicology report) and heart issues.