AVB's one upfront system doomed for failure at WHL

[paxtonwolf]

I suppose you could look at this both ways.

We have been ahead v Norwich,WBA and Chelsea had we held on for victories we would be level with United on 24pts,but..

there is also a case that we could have actually lost all 6 of our home League games
WBA - once they got the equaliser we were hanging on in the end. Couldnt handle Lukaku
Norwich - early doors Freidel kept us in the game. They could have been out of sight
QPR - They bossed the first half and we got a fortunate o.g to get is back in the game
Villa - Benteke missed 2 really good chances to put them ahead. Could have been 2-0 down

I'd like to look at the glass half-full, but in all fairness, bar a few 15 minutes in each of the games, we just havent looked like Tottenham at home. Surely we have to try a 4-4-2 st sometime soon

 

[diego_maradona]

Are you sure about that? I remember lots of games where redknapp was criticised for poor substitutions eg the villa game last season or for not using the squad players such as krankie or defoe effectively and for having his favourites. I think a lot of people in this thread are suffering selective nostalgia!

On the whole I would say. There were the odd games for sure, particularly that Villa game. But generally Harry was good at picking his strongest XI

 

[AdamB]

We cant change from the 1 up top system as we barely have any CFs in the squad. We have Defoe and Ade obviously but if one gets injured we're screwed. You cant also play both together in all competitions.

Additionally, AVB will never change from one up top - it'll either be 4-2-3-1 or his 4-3-3/4-5-1 type formation. Either way it'll only be one CF

At the moment though, we dont have the right CMs to play 4-3-3 so 4-2-3-1. Unfortunately though with Sigurdsson and Dempsey being brick so far this season, it leave a massive void between the CMs and Defoe. Its why we look so completely toothless.

At least when we had Rafa, we offered a threat across the pitch. Now all you have to do to stop us is mark Lennon and Bale as you know that bugger all threat is going to come through the middle

 

[DHSF]

We cant change from the 1 up top system as we barely have any CFs in the squad. We have Defoe and Ade obviously but if one gets injured we're screwed. You cant also play both together in all competitions.

Additionally, AVB will never change from one up top - it'll either be 4-2-3-1 or his 4-3-3/4-5-1 type formation. Either way it'll only be one CF

At the moment though, we dont have the right CMs to play 4-3-3 so 4-2-3-1. Unfortunately though with Sigurdsson and Dempsey being brick so far this season, it leave a massive void between the CMs and Defoe. Its why we look so completely toothless.

At least when we had Rafa, we offered a threat across the pitch. Now all you have to do to stop us is mark Lennon and Bale as you know that bugger all threat is going to come through the middle

No we can play two strikers. We have two strikers so we play them. What youre suggesting (not just you by the way) is akin to saying that if we have one keeper we shouldnt play him incase he gets injured.

If one of the two strikers gets injured then we revert back to one striker. Simple.

Like you say we are so toothless because dempsey and sig have been brick that we HAVE to play Ade and Defoe. I guarantee that Ade would be superior to those two and with Defoe we would have a genuine goal threat.

 

[Spursalot]

No we can play two strikers. We have two strikers so we play them. What youre suggesting (not just you by the way) is akin to saying that if we have one keeper we shouldnt play him incase he gets injured.

If one of the two strikers gets injured then we revert back to one striker. Simple.

Like you say we are so toothless because dempsey and sig have been brick that we HAVE to play Ade and Defoe. I guarantee that Ade would be superior to those two and with Defoe we would have a genuine goal threat.

It's nothing like that, because it's a choice to play one striker or two. It's not a choice to play a goalkeeper.

 

[DHSF]

It's nothing like that, because it's a choice to play one striker or two. It's not a choice to play a goalkeeper.

My analogy was pretty brick to be honest. What you guys are suggesting is wrong... because we have a shortage of strikers youre worried someone will get injured and then we are still left with one. What if Defoe playing as a lone striker is injured? We are still left with one. We cant think like that.

I want us to play with 11 players like other teams

 

[Spursalot]

My analogy was pretty brick to be honest. What you guys are suggesting is wrong... because we have a shortage of strikers youre worried someone will get injured and then we are still left with one. What if Defoe playing as a lone striker is injured? We are still left with one. We cant think like that.

I want us to play with 11 players like other teams

I want us to play a sustainable system that fits our personnel.

If we had even one more striker i would say sure lets go for a 4-4-2, however if they spend all the time practicing a 4-4-2 and then ade/defoe can't play we're fudged. Whereas if we play a 4-5-1 and one of them can't play, we at least have the other to step in.

 

[Fhtagn]

I want us to play a sustainable system that fits our personnel.

If we had even one more striker i would say sure lets go for a 4-4-2, however if they spend all the time practicing a 4-4-2 and then ade/defoe can't play we're fudged. Whereas if we play a 4-5-1 and one of them can't play, we at least have the other to step in.

If all they're doing now is practicing 4-2-3-1 then I'd be worried, because they're pretty brick at it at the moment. I hope that they do something else in training other than practice formations.
I agree that playing a system that fits the personnel is the way to go, but surely you must be able to mix that up as a coach? Start out with a 4-4-2, change if it doesn't work or the other way around?

And I agree with DHSF that you can start with both Ade and Defoe, injuries occur, you can't foresee them and prevent them more than you can in everyday life. As long as they're both fit I feel that's a risk we need to take. In worst case Dempsey can pair up with either Defoe or Ade.

 

[indianspur]

see i dont understand how AVB has been called a tactical forward thinking magician/genius whatever, when he favours a system so widely used at other clubs

surely a daring coach goes against the status quo

2 up front please

 

[ArcspacE]

see i dont understand how AVB has been called a tactical forward thinking magician/genius whatever, when he favours a system so widely used at other clubs

surely a daring coach goes against the status quo

2 up front please

Every single post of yours lately is an attack on either Levy or AVB.

Give it a rest for a day or two - no harm

 

[indianspur]

Every single post of yours lately is an attack on either Levy or AVB.

Give it a rest for a day or two - no harm

no attack, just an observation. Levy and AVB are not perfect (who is)

 

[DHSF]

Every single post of yours lately is an attack on either Levy or AVB.

Give it a rest for a day or two - no harm

To be honest my views been the same as Indians - wanna fight Arcey boy? grrrrrrrrrrrrr

In all honesty its a point isnt it? I mean essentialy he has really only proven it at one club for one season. Anyways I think AVBs system is doomed to failure at WHL (as long we dont have the required personnel) and thats why he does need to change his ways.

 

[scaramanga]

To be honest my views been the same as Indians - wanna fight Arcey boy? grrrrrrrrrrrrr

In all honesty its a point isnt it? I mean essentialy he has really only proven it at one club for one season. Anyways I think AVBs system is doomed to failure at WHL (as long we dont have the required personnel) and thats why he does need to change his ways.

Isn't it a little premature to be making statements like this?

"One up front is doomed to failure" sounds a little like "You'll never win anything with kids" or "Don't worry, 4th will be fine. Chelsea will never win the CL".

 

[DHSF]

Isn't it a little premature to be making statements like this?

"One up front is doomed to failure" sounds a little like "You'll never win anything with kids" or "Don't worry, 4th will be fine. Chelsea will never win the CL".

With the current crop of players and certainly at WHL it is failing at present. We dont have the creativity to play that formation effectively and I never said it will NEVER work. So yes I think that tactic for home games is failing. Away from home its another story its actually very good and I see the benefits (albeit we have been a bit lucky with it at times).

 

[AdamB]

No we can play two strikers. We have two strikers so we play them. What youre suggesting (not just you by the way) is akin to saying that if we have one keeper we shouldnt play him incase he gets injured.

If one of the two strikers gets injured then we revert back to one striker. Simple.

Like you say we are so toothless because dempsey and sig have been brick that we HAVE to play Ade and Defoe. I guarantee that Ade would be superior to those two and with Defoe we would have a genuine goal threat.

I'm saying that we WONT play 2 up top because AVB never does (whether at Porto, CHelsea or Spurs) and equally we CANT play 2 up top game in game out because with the league and Europa leage and then FAC starting in Jan, we dont have enough CFs relative to the volume of games. Ade is off to the ACN in Jan as well isnt he?

So if 4-4-2 is a non-starter, am not sure what the option is? Either continue to play Siggy or Dempsey in the hope that one of them runs into form at some point or maybe try a square peg in a round hole? Thudd moving forwards? Hell, try a kid - Mason, Pritchard etc....not sure that they could contribute less than Dempsey/Sigurdsson at the moment

 

[DHSF]

I'm saying that we WONT play 2 up top because AVB never does (whether at Porto, CHelsea or Spurs) and equally we CANT play 2 up top game in game out because with the league and Europa leage and then FAC starting in Jan, we dont have enough CFs relative to the volume of games. Ade is off to the ACN in Jan as well isnt he?

So if 4-4-2 is a non-starter, am not sure what the option is? Either continue to play Siggy or Dempsey in the hope that one of them runs into form at some point or maybe try a square peg in a round hole? Thudd moving forwards? Hell, try a kid - Mason, Pritchard etc....not sure that they could contribute less than Dempsey/Sigurdsson at the moment

I get ya. Im only proposing a 442 for home games so one of them strikers will have a week off every other week and even then we can rotate them.

 

[braineclipse]

Youre correct and I only brought Harry because you did but getting back to AVB you are also right we cant judge him but we can sure criticise him and his tactics thus far. Of course if in the next ten games he still doesnt change his ways at home specifically then where do we go from there? Why would he change his ways after 20 games if he doesnt change it after ten? Its WHL thats the main issue here - we were brilliant at home in the past (with the odd sprinkling of bad performances) but so far after what - five games? we have been utter brick. I do think AVB will loosen the rope a bit and let the players play with the swagger they have and the skill and natural ability they possess. I cant imagine someone could be so stubborn to realise that if it aint working you change it.

AVB worries about the opposition and defensive tactics first before thinking about how we should be scoring goals and beating the other lot. Going out with the aim of not losing (especially when youre at home to Wigan) is just small time. We should be going out there to win and score goals. Its what Manure do its what Chelscum are doing.

Yeah, sorry, but we have very little to talk about when it comes to AVB if you really believe that is what he thinks and wants. You seem severely biased against the guy for whatever reasons.

 

[Modric THFC]

Is this ridiculous thread still going?
Complaining about a manager not playing 442 even though he's done so multiple times this season even though he hasn't have 2 fully fit strikers at any point in the season.

 

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

As much As I would have liked to have seen Defoe and Adebayor both on the pitch on Saturday, I still think the games result was more down to the players. Other then Dembele this was the same team then went to Old Trafford and made Man U for 45mins at least look toothless, over powered them in midfield and took a 2-0 lead into half time.

For me the attitude of some of the players was "its ok whatever happens today we will win".

I love Huddlestone but in the second half about 20mins in he did a pass and it went nowhere, you could see his head drop and I knew then we wouldn't get anything out the game. Not putting the blame on Huddlestone cos there is another 10 players who could help turn the game round but that seemed to be the same with everyone on Saturday. If I do a bad pass at football it makes me angry I get fired up. Too many of this team dont have the right attitude maybe they are not strong enough mentally. Other then Gallas we had no other leader on Saturday, fingers crossed Parker is back asap

 

[DHSF]

Yeah, sorry, but we have very little to talk about when it comes to AVB if you really believe that is what he thinks and wants. You seem severely biased against the guy for whatever reasons.

Im not a fan of his certainly but im definitely not against him. I have seen evidence that as soon as we go in front we seem to want to just defend it out. It happened against Norwich and WBA for example. As I said in another post in this thread sometimes its not just always about the formation but how the Manager is applying those tactics.