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AVB
- Thread starter El Guepardo
- Start date
I
indianspur
Guest
hahaha Falcao, Hulk, Moutinho and the rest ..........even my nan GHod rest her soul could have got that Porto team to the EL semis at least:lol:
SteveAWOL
Colin Calderwood
How very dare all you non-believers belittle Andre "record points haul" Villas-Boas' achievements with Porto [-X
To claim that he only won the Europa League because he happened to inherit a squad containing 3 of Europe' best players... anyone would think that Falcao had scored 34 goals the season before AVB' arrival and then fired Atlético Madrid to Europa League glory the following year whilst also becoming the first player to be the competition' top-scorer in successive seasons :-"
And not forgetting AVB' incredible unbeaten Primeira Liga campaign, a feat he astutely predicted "wouldn't be repeated in the modern game"... how was AVB supposed to know that his former assistant would, despite the loss of their star goal scorer, lead Porto to another unbeaten league campaign just 2 years later #-o
To claim that he only won the Europa League because he happened to inherit a squad containing 3 of Europe' best players... anyone would think that Falcao had scored 34 goals the season before AVB' arrival and then fired Atlético Madrid to Europa League glory the following year whilst also becoming the first player to be the competition' top-scorer in successive seasons :-"
And not forgetting AVB' incredible unbeaten Primeira Liga campaign, a feat he astutely predicted "wouldn't be repeated in the modern game"... how was AVB supposed to know that his former assistant would, despite the loss of their star goal scorer, lead Porto to another unbeaten league campaign just 2 years later #-o
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
They're only some of the best in Europe because they had that success though - if they were already some of the best they would have joined one of the top tier clubs straight away.
No doubt they are good players but I think the whole 'anyone could have gone unbeaten, won the league and cup double and the Europa League with that squad' line of argument is ridiculous. A cursory glance at how Porto fared in the 2009-10 season could tell you that.
SteveAWOL
Colin Calderwood
Joao Moutinho > Raul Meireles :-k
Can only imagine how different things might've been for AVB at Spurs if that deadline day deal for Moutinho in the summer of 2012 hadn't fallen through...
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Say what you like, but Tim Sherwood is not fit to lick AVB's boots.
Fact.
Fact.
Robspur12
John Lacy
Look I get you were a big fan of AVB but it is funny that you say on the one hand that posters keep harking back to AVB when discussing Sherwood but you are doing exactly the same here but in reverse. And it is not FACT just your opinion. Frankly both AVB and Sherwood are equally to blame for the current mess we are in. It's just that one is according to some a "super coach" while the other is clearly a novice.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
What I say is that posters like the shivermetimbers one keep deflecting blame for TS's failings by keep blaming AVB instead; most of the time ludicrously. I have no issue with them brining up AVB in that thread per se, but it is the TS thread so it's more the mods that have that view actually.
My statement was just to put some perspective on the stick that seemed to be being chucked in the last page or so.
Ok, looking at my statement, let's see: One of the two has managed teams before, the other is a novice. One has won multiple trophies in single season, the other has barely won any cup games. One has shown a level of professionalism that at least made those associated with Spurs not be embarrassed 8 times out of ten when he spoke about the club and after games, the other can't even be seen at the touchline (due to not being able to even trust himself to not act like a macaron) and always looks to felect any responsibility.
So, as of right now, yes Sherwood is not fit to lick AVB's boots in whichever way you look at how to judge a manager at this time.
AVB is a decent coach; he is not a 'super-coach' necessarily; he doesn't need to be a super-coach to be better in so many ways than the current incumbent, who embarrasses the position of Spurs manager more and more with each passing week
Robspur12
John Lacy
winning multiple trophies in the Portugal league is not the same as the English league. AVB was just as much a failure here as Sherwood in fact I'd say more so as he came over here as this big shot coach and then failed to deliver at one club before somehow getting another chance then failing again. As for embarrassing our club I think AVB wins hands down again. From criticising the fans, media, his treatment of Ade and almost causing one of our players to suffer brain damage, AVB, IMO rewrote the book on embarrassment towards the end of his time. What had Tim done? Had a go at the players as many managers have done at different times. Unfortunately you despise Tim and that distorts your view of him in every way.
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clownfoot
Goran Bunjevcevic
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
No but winning a trophy still takes a certain amount managerial nous and ability. And winning the Europa League trophy is not something that anyone can do, Especially not somebody who can barely win a cup game. Do you still say TS compares on this front at this time?
On what basis are you judging AVB a 'failure'? Do you mean missing out on CL by a point? He came over here as a coach who won multiple trophies, do you mean he failed to win a trophy with us? And this season: did he fail because he left us 8 points off the top even though we scored barely a goal a game? How do you know how he would have fared had he styed for the rest of the season? Perhaps he would have won a trophy, who knows? He had a sticky patch during the first part of the previous season and turned it round (no league defeats between early december and mid-March), so how do we know he wouldn't have done similar this season? How far off the top are we now btw?
He said "they can do better"; was that as bad as being called "idiots" by the previous manager? AVB's statement was not neccesary and perhaps ill-timed by nowhere near as bad as the media made out when I listed to the actual words (and compared to what another previous manager said)
Are you serious??? You mean he embarrased himself by calling out the likes of Neil Ashton and his BS article where he twisted AVB's words where AVB said "we should be ashamed of ourselves" and he they made it out to be him blaming all others except himself?? If you were embarrased by him doing that (i.e. defending himself and the club from a section of the press who were always hostile towards him from day one) then that says more about you tbh.
Yeah I agree that was harsh, but hardly 'an embaressment'; it's not like he's te first manager to not like/want to play Ade. What about TS and his 'treatment' of Capoue and Soldado (bencinh him after he gets his long-awaited goal??
Almost? What you talking about here? Did Lloris have a seizure afterwards?? Though I agree it was certainly not good to play him if it went against the Doctors, but did he 'almost cause him to suffer brain damage'??
Really? So let's see: blasting the players about "showing a lack of guts, passion and commitment" yet bottling it by staying up in the stands "because he couldn't see how he could effect the game, which was already lost"? Talk about hypocracy! Perhaps the way the players were playing reflected him all along? Shall I talk about the embarrasing altercation with Sagna? Passion and guts eh? Did AVB bottle his responsibilities as manager like this at any time? Even when his team was getting dingdonged by Liverpool in his last game he still didn't hide and sit on his bench behind the crowd. Did AVB ever show such childish behaviour with us? Did he have a go at Walker, Lloris and BAE in public after the Liverpool loss last March (when it could be argued our destiny changed for the worse and we haven't recovered)? It could be argued that game and outcome was far worse than Chelski seeing as we TOTALLY gave the game away as we were ahead AND owning Liverpool on their own ground. Even those who didn't want AVB mostly said they liked the bloke and wanted him to succeed for the way he carried himself and represented the club at least. He carried himself like a professional manager at all times, unlike TS. If you think AVB was more embarrassing overall than TS, then as I say again that says more about you and your expectations of how a professional manager should behave.
I certainly was prejuduced towards him and his appointment i agree. But I was hoping and waiting to be proved wrong; however i think TS has shown himself to be EVEN WORSE than I thought in both his managerial capabilities (he's a novice after all) and how he conducts himself as a key representative of the club. He was asked about which players he thought were world class and said "Ade and the goalie" - he couldn't even remember Lloris' name ffs! On top of many other times he has spoken as though he literally doesn't know the players he is managing.
I still say that at this time TS has not shown capability to win cup games, let alone cup competitions. He has not shown an ability to act professionally on a consistent basis and his consistent spouting of how the players need to show "guts, passion and commitment" has shown to me that he has little tactical nous and is a hypocrite when he stated off the touchline for the whole game at Anfield. Do we know what TS's tactical strategy is? Why have we started almost all our games in such poor fashion, even if we do often improve in the second half?
So again, i still say at the time TS is not fit to be compared to AVB (and AVB doesn't need to be a 'super-coach' for that; just a professional coach/manager).
Could it not also be said that your view of AVB (and him being somehow worse than TS) is because you despise him??
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this.
Robspur12
John Lacy
Mate I'm not having a go. I just like a good discussion or a pointless one depending on your view
. BTW you clearly could see no wrong in AVB perhaps not a good place to start in terms of judging his successor.I don't know how to do the multi quote thing so I will do my best to address your points one by one:-
On what basis do I judge AVB a failure? Well on the fact that he managed 2 top clubs in the premiership and failed at both. Along with Scolari he is the only coach/ manager in the Abramovich era to be sacked during his 1st season he was so bad. At least Scolari had the excuse of having not managed a club side for years. At Spurs he failed to finish in the champions league places despite having the third best player in the world at his disposal. As for the cups didn't he lose to Leeds in the FA Cup? At least TS lost to Premiership level clubs. didn't we lose to Norwich in the capital one cup round before the quarters? So AVB hardly set the cups alight either. 8 points off the top yes but thanks to some rather favourable referee decisions. TS on the other hand has been on the wrong end of poor refereeing decisions. TS beat the sides around us namely Soton, Everton and Man Utd. I think it is unfair to compare his Porto record with TS seeing as the latter has never managed in Portugal.
Criticising the fans:- I think you are looking at this one through Rose tinted spectacles this is actually what he said:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leeKhSzjDsc
Not acceptable in my opinion especially as I paid over 50 quid for my ticket. He had been at the club 5 minutes and criticised fans who had been supporting the club before he had even heard of Tottenham and who are still here despite him probably only giving the club a passing thought.
Criticising the media:- A battle you can never win and makes the club imo even more of a laughing stock, totally self serving too nothing to do with the best interests of the club which would have been to let the football do the talking. But of course he could n't do that because we were playing poorly.
Ade:- Not even remotely comparable to how TS has "treated" Capoue, who is injured or Soldado (incidentally didn't AVB treat Lamela in this way?) At least those decisions were footballing decisions even if you disagree with them, Ade's freezing out was personal.
Lloris:- How can you defend that? especialy as lloris had to miss the next game because of the injury sustained in the lukaku clash. It was irresponsible bordering on negligent and could have back fired tragically. Seeing how treating concussion on the sporting field has been a high profile discussion point what was going on in his head to make that decision?
As for Tim's passion I personally like it. The Sagna incident is much ado about nothing. I think the players needed a good kick up the ****. Did AVB bottle his responsibilities? If Steff is correct he wanted to leave and at the end he was trying to say that most of the players were not his signings.
I don't despise AVB I am just angry with him and I could see his failings just like I can see Tim's. AVB started the rot this season with mind numbing tactics and poor football. I cannot remember a single game under him which I can say was truly exciting this season in particular. By the time he left we were in negative goal difference more than 30 goals behind city. Granted TS has not done much better but his ppg has still been better than AVB this season and he will go at the end of the season.
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Denmark Spur
Edgar Davids
AVB on fire in Russia
Zenit just beat Kazan 6-2
Zenit just beat Kazan 6-2
Robspur12
John Lacy
Even if he wins everything in sight in Russia (didn't Spaletti?) will not erase his failures in England...perhaps he would have cut it up in league 1 or the championship.
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Do you honestly think that just anyone can drop into a team in Russia and immediately succeed?
How would you or I fare? Or YTS Tim, for example?
Lost Mango
Allan Nielsen
Apparently everyone's nan can drop in and have success anywhere because those leagues and competitions are all tin pot stuff.
Robbo
Les Ferdinand
I used to win the Portuguese double once. Got bored though. Too easy.