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AVB - I want him out now!

indianspur said:
if his english is good then he could speak to the media in english....its more likely he is only able to say certain things in english related to training and tactics and that helps him get by.

some people find it difficult with languages, no shame in that
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My understanding is that his English is good
 
thfcsteff said:
This is CLASSIC middle-management commentary on 'creative' matters…they always know what they DON'T want but they seem to actually know what they DO want. It's silly. How on earth can you NOT have an idea who you'd bring in?
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The difference is I don't any responsibility to manage something. As a fan I can see what isn't working. I don't have a responsibility to A) fix it B) find a solution that fixes it.

If I was a middle-manager, getting paid to resolve issues within a business, then yes, i'd make it my duty to come up with a solution.

At the moment, I am only sure of one thing: Currently, AVB isn't working and isn't getting the best out of the players at his disposal.

I'm pretty sure that most of the people in this thread have agreed with me.

The divergence of opinion appears to be whether people believe AVB can turn it around.

What I can't be "sure of" is whether he will turn it around, but I am concerned that if he doesn't:

- we'll have a season of poor/average/inconsistent results
- we'll also have to endure poor, unexciting, boring football along the way.

And that even if he does turn it around, i'm concerned that while results might improve and in theory he could match or better last season's points total that:

- we'll be boring, functional and nerve-racking to watch.

In neither scenario can I really see us making our objectives (top 4).

If I had time, i'd be able to come up with a preferred candidate to manage the club, but if I was doing a thorough task (as i'd expect Levy & Baldini to do) it wouldn't be a simple case of "oh, Pochittino has been doing well at Southampton, why don't we get him on board??"

I'd look at:

1) What managers have been doing well recently in Europe.
2) Out of these managers, what has been behind their success? I.e. is it possible that their success could be transplanted to Spurs - have they had success everywhere they've went, or is there a possibility that it's just a flash in the pan
3) How will they fit in at Spurs, do they speak English, is their culture compatible with the clubs? Will they get along with the players?
4) What can they bring to the table that will improve our current and future prospects?
5) What support and investment will they require? I.e. are they willing to work with what we already have, or will they say "I want to play 3-5-2, so sell all your wingers, buy me an extra centre-back and I want a different centre-forward"

Then i'd narrow it down until i had a no. 1 candidate, a no 2 candidate etc.

I just don't have the time and can't be bothered to go through the process that is necessary to replace AVB and which our club deserves. Its more of a case of me just casually saying "well I thin Laudrup might do well" or "Jurgen Klopp for me, nobody else!"

It's not my job to do that and its not even my job to decide whether AVB keeps his job or not. I'm commenting as a fan, saying AVB isn't working and I want him out. I'm giving my reasons for this. The rest is not down to me to decide.
 
NWND said:
The difference is I don't any responsibility to manage something. As a fan I can see what isn't working. I don't have a responsibility to A) fix it B) find a solution that fixes it.

If I was a middle-manager, getting paid to resolve issues within a business, then yes, i'd make it my duty to come up with a solution.

At the moment, I am only sure of one thing: Currently, AVB isn't working and isn't getting the best out of the players at his disposal.

I'm pretty sure that most of the people in this thread have agreed with me.

The divergence of opinion appears to be whether people believe AVB can turn it around.

What I can't be "sure of" is whether he will turn it around, but I am concerned that if he doesn't:

- we'll have a season of poor/average/inconsistent results
- we'll also have to endure poor, unexciting, boring football along the way.

And that even if he does turn it around, i'm concerned that while results might improve and in theory he could match or better last season's points total that:

- we'll be boring, functional and nerve-racking to watch.

In neither scenario can I really see us making our objectives (top 4).

If I had time, i'd be able to come up with a preferred candidate to manage the club, but if I was doing a thorough task (as i'd expect Levy & Baldini to do) it wouldn't be a simple case of "oh, Pochittino has been doing well at Southampton, why don't we get him on board??"

I'd look at:

1) What managers have been doing well recently in Europe.
2) Out of these managers, what has been behind their success? I.e. is it possible that their success could be transplanted to Spurs - have they had success everywhere they've went, or is there a possibility that it's just a flash in the pan
3) How will they fit in at Spurs, do they speak English, is their culture compatible with the clubs? Will they get along with the players?
4) What can they bring to the table that will improve our current and future prospects?
5) What support and investment will they require? I.e. are they willing to work with what we already have, or will they say "I want to play 3-5-2, so sell all your wingers, buy me an extra centre-back and I want a different centre-forward"

Then i'd narrow it down until i had a no. 1 candidate, a no 2 candidate etc.

I just don't have the time and can't be bothered to go through the process that is necessary to replace AVB and which our club deserves. Its more of a case of me just casually saying "well I thin Laudrup might do well" or "Jurgen Klopp for me, nobody else!"

It's not my job to do that and its not even my job to decide whether AVB keeps his job or not. I'm commenting as a fan, saying AVB isn't working and I want him out. I'm giving my reasons for this. The rest is not down to me to decide.
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I don't agree with this. People saying that we are not the easiest on the eye, is not the same as people agreeing that AVB is not working.

If there is a census in this thread, it is that your call for AVB's head is misplaced.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry dude but I really don't agree that AVB is a great manager. Good manager yes, but not great. He's not been around long enough or achieved enough frankly to be considered great.
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Yeah, I'd say his top level managerial career consists of:

One good season (the club he was at before Porto - was it Academica?)
One great season (Porto)
About a half of a disasterous season (Chelsea)
One adequate season (Spurs 1st season)
A quarter of a sub-standard season (Spurs 2nd season)
 
milo said:
I don't agree with this. People saying that we are not the easiest on the eye, is not the same as people agreeing that AVB is not working.

If there is a census in this thread, it is that your call for AVB's head is misplaced.
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So you are perfectly happy with our performances so far this season then?
 
NWND said:
Yeah, I'd say his top level managerial career consists of:

One good season (the club he was at before Porto - was it Academica?)
One great season (Porto)
About a half of a disasterous season (Chelsea)
One adequate season (Spurs 1st season)
A quarter of a sub-standard season (Spurs 2nd season)
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and it's that great season at Porto that has given him the rep and convinced our board he was worth a punt. Thing is they made a similar mistake with Ramos who won
 
colin fishwick said:
AVB was a football fan who bumped into Bobby Robson and then became something else. Jose M was an interpreter


My point was of course half meant figuratively ,but not entirely . Because what you are saying, taken to its logical conclusion is - no matter how bad AVB does, no non manager could have done any better. I don't believe that .

As I said offensively , it would have been hard to worse than 6 goals from open play in 11 games.

The Southampton manager can't speak a word of English, many would have said that would have prohibited him from doing a good job.
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How about fact checking things before you make claims (regarding Pochettino), might keep threads from going off topic.

AVB was a football fan. At some point I'm sure Jurgen Klopp was a football fan too, as was Alex Ferguson. Since then all of them have gone through a lot to prepare them for the job of being a manager at a top club. AVB wasn't a professional player, but he's had well over a decade of training and experience. Him being a fan at some point in the past before all of that is really not that relevant.

As a sidenote, how many fans do you think Bobby Robson has talked to in his life? How many of those do you think he helped out getting a start in football? Perhaps AVB showed some talent. And that was before all his training and experience.

kanoute16 said:
It's boring, uninteresting and dull! It's ok if you sit at home watching spurs on an internet stream which you so obviously do but for us paying fans it's very frustrating!

A win cannot mask the reality, our style of play is awful and we are not winning that many games playing this way.

I think there are many posters who are desperate to cling onto whole that avb has a plan and it will work but personally I any see it.
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You don't think AVB has a plan?

NWND said:
I understand it, but that doesn't make me like it, also now the results aren't that great although I still understand what and why AVB is doing but I've lost faith in it and it's precisely because I understand what's going on that I see it's not in my opinion going to change.

1) I will do
2) I don't know, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you want a manager out you have to have an idea as to who to get in - that's Levy & Baldini's job!

There are candidates out there though!
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I agree with your second point. It's not our job to be knowledgeable about potential top class managers from all over the world.

A question though, in your opinion what do you think the chance is that AVB ends up being a success? And what do you think the chance is that whoever is hired as his replacement if you get your wish is a success?
 
Managerial ability, and cultural fit with the club are what matters IMO.

Refreshing change to see a well reasoned argument! The problem is that AVB's style of play isn't looking like a good fit with Spurs right now. If we win, we don't really care if it is 1-0. You can't criticise winning ugly! But playing turgid, dull football at the Lane and losing is pretty unforgiveable! It is NOT what fans pay for :)
Like it or lump it, we need to give AVB some time to discover his best team, possibly to buy some left sided players / get Rose back.
Very disappointing he didn't play Lamela against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, very disappointing that one or two others looked poor on the day. Just need to chill, and support the team when we get a chance.
 
NWND said:
The difference is I don't any responsibility to manage something. As a fan I can see what isn't working. I don't have a responsibility to A) fix it B) find a solution that fixes it.

If I was a middle-manager, getting paid to resolve issues within a business, then yes, i'd make it my duty to come up with a solution.

At the moment, I am only sure of one thing: Currently, AVB isn't working and isn't getting the best out of the players at his disposal.

I'm pretty sure that most of the people in this thread have agreed with me.

The divergence of opinion appears to be whether people believe AVB can turn it around.

What I can't be "sure of" is whether he will turn it around, but I am concerned that if he doesn't:

- we'll have a season of poor/average/inconsistent results
- we'll also have to endure poor, unexciting, boring football along the way.

And that even if he does turn it around, i'm concerned that while results might improve and in theory he could match or better last season's points total that:

- we'll be boring, functional and nerve-racking to watch.

In neither scenario can I really see us making our objectives (top 4).

If I had time, i'd be able to come up with a preferred candidate to manage the club, but if I was doing a thorough task (as i'd expect Levy & Baldini to do) it wouldn't be a simple case of "oh, Pochittino has been doing well at Southampton, why don't we get him on board??"

I'd look at:

1) What managers have been doing well recently in Europe.
2) Out of these managers, what has been behind their success? I.e. is it possible that their success could be transplanted to Spurs - have they had success everywhere they've went, or is there a possibility that it's just a flash in the pan
3) How will they fit in at Spurs, do they speak English, is their culture compatible with the clubs? Will they get along with the players?
4) What can they bring to the table that will improve our current and future prospects?
5) What support and investment will they require? I.e. are they willing to work with what we already have, or will they say "I want to play 3-5-2, so sell all your wingers, buy me an extra centre-back and I want a different centre-forward"

Then i'd narrow it down until i had a no. 1 candidate, a no 2 candidate etc.

I just don't have the time and can't be bothered to go through the process that is necessary to replace AVB and which our club deserves. Its more of a case of me just casually saying "well I thin Laudrup might do well" or "Jurgen Klopp for me, nobody else!"

It's not my job to do that and its not even my job to decide whether AVB keeps his job or not. I'm commenting as a fan, saying AVB isn't working and I want him out. I'm giving my reasons for this. The rest is not down to me to decide.
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A critic who demands action but who's job it isn't...I mean, that's obvious but still, it'd nice to know you had a vision beyond what you don't want and aren't sure about.

If ANYONE at Spurs was ever insane enough to sack AVB now we would be, quite rightly, the laughing stock of football...plus the overwhelming confidence an incoming manager or coach would get would be massive right? Oh the support!
 
indianspur said:
lets not throw the word "great" around so easily

id say he is a good manager, successful in Portugal but still with plenty to prove in the PL. Time will tell if he becomes great
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That's fair, though I think he has done well with us thus far...'great' at 36 might be a bit OTT.
 
Robspur12 said:
and it's that great season at Porto that has given him the rep and convinced our board he was worth a punt. Thing is they made a similar mistake with Ramos who won
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I think there would have been an incredible amount of depth and detail delved in to during the recruitment process for the position of Head Coach. It would not have simply been 'Yeah he did good at Porto, worth a punt'.

It's an extremely senior level hire. It would have been meticulously thought out. And they won't give up on him easy.
 
Last 38 Premier League matches...

BZHynDnCMAEJ7SU.jpg:large


...AVB out!
 
Lets see how relevant results from last season are, wedged into a meaningless table, come the end of this season.

AVB needs time, that much is clear. The summer overhaul was always going to need some time to bed in and bear fruit.

But to say that performances and results this season have been anything short of disappointing is misleading, and quite frankly nonsense.

That fabricated nonsense table above means nothing. What does mean something is results. Whose up next? Emirates Marketing Project and Man Utd? Lets see how we feel after those games. What I can imagine is that we lose both without scoring a goal. If (obviously a big if) that is the case, we'll then have gone four games without a goal, having taken one point out of 12, and will probably sit about 10th in the league. I think 10th would be a fair reflection of the quality we have displayed this year.

And whilst no-one can disagree that there was always going to be a teething period and that AVB needs time, he isn't helping himself much. Bizarre substitutions and mismanaging what is supposed to be one of the best benches in the premier league.

To be honest we were only three dodgy penalties away from being 15th in the league and really debating his future at the club. I definitely wouldn't sack him, but he's achieved less than other managers who have had the same time and less resources to work with.

Improvement needs to come quickly, because we are set to drop down the league like a stone if we keep performing to our current level.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Don't let facts get in the way, they want a new dummy to throw out of the pram
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=D> Outstanding contribution to a debate. Really, really high quality stuff.

What's factual and relevant to the real world and current season at wedging results over two separate seasons together?

If that's a game changer in the context of this debate, then we really don't need to worry about evidence at all.

Rather than a meaningless bull**** table it might be better to discuss the turgid performances we have witnessed THIS season with our own eyes.
 
And if we lose our next 27 games we'll be relegated. How are our results so far, the games that have been played, disappointing? Ignore who the fixtures have been against because there will always be blips.

20 points from 11 games.

Qualified for the knockout stages of the EL with two games to spare.

In the quarter final of the league cup.
 
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