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American politics

Rorschach said:
Not really. Trump was riding on the coattails of Obama's strong economy. Obama had to turn around a slump created by the previous incumbent, whereas Trumps economy had already taken a downwards turn at the start of this year even before Covid. The stock market is not the economy, and a lot of the gains were buoyed by massive stock buy backs on the heels of that huge tax give away, a tax give away essentially funded by exploding the US deficit. And as for job numbers, yes they were increasing but at a lower rate than Obama's time in office. Although Trump liked to say he created the best economy in history that is not born out by the numbers.

And look where the US economy is now? Trump took it and fudged it like he's done with everything in his life. He couldn't get it through his head that managing Covid was the only way to manage the economy.
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Absolutely 100% this.

Obama had to put the stimulus bill in place to save the US economy, his first 4 years were spent fixing the largest economic crisis on record. Look at the deficit towards the end of his reign and it's chalk and cheese.

As expected, Trump has increased the deficit levels, now this was expected because it was well known Trump was simply going to spend money left right and centre (mainly right, really far right...) and because of the tax changes he was to implement etc, predictions before 2016 were that he would have a higher spend than Clinton by around 1trn. But he could only do that because he took an economy on solid footing back from Obama.

One President had to manage the economy carefully, the other could absolutely hammer the deficit back up and know no one gives two bricks because it's Trump.
 
Diamond Lights said:
On a seperate note, but related to American politics.

Fundrasing, it's really, really such a big thing isn't it? i know Labour backed majority by Unions, Tories by rich friends (and the Russians) but it really feels like the US is almost solely based on whoever raises the most funds, wins. I love visiting parts of the US (Vegas and NY), but it amazes me we look to the country as a bastion of freedom and brick. It's an absolute clusterfudge of a place in the majority of places, lack of healthcare provisions, gun loving tacos.
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There's a lot of evidence to show that the money follows the winner, rather than the other way around.
 
Bit of a clearer picture emerging now that one of Trump's docs has said he was diagnosed positive the morning after the debate. They knew he had it, hid the diagnosis and hoped no symptoms would show. They had no qualms about risking everyone Trump came into contact from that point on. Ghouls.
 
From NY Times:

Covid-19 Live Updates: Trump’s Symptoms Are Said to Be ‘Very Concerning’

The president, hospitalized at the Walter Reed military hospital, is “improving,” Dr. Sean Conley said in an optimistic assessment. But he declined to provide many specifics, including about whether Mr. Trump had ever received supplemental oxygen.

President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.

While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.

Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.

Dr. Sean P. Conley, the White House physician, told reporters outside Walter Reed that the president was not currently on supplemental oxygen on Saturday but repeatedly declined to say definitively whether he had ever been on oxygen. “None at this moment and yesterday with the team, while we were all here, he was not on oxygen,” he said, seeming to suggest that there was a period on Friday when he was.

Dr. Conley likewise seemed to suggest that the president was first diagnosed with the virus on Wednesday rather than Thursday night when Mr. Trump disclosed that he had tested positive on Twitter. While describing what he said was the president’s progress, he said Mr. Trump was “just 72 hours into the diagnosis now,” which would mean midday on Wednesday.

Asked about that, Dr. Conley did not clarify but said that on Thursday afternoon “we repeated testing and, given clinical indications, had a little bit more concern.” Late that night, he said “we got the PCR confirmation that he was” positive. Mr. Trump attended campaign events on both Wednesday night and Thursday, which would be after the point 72 hours earlier.

The confusion came from a briefing where Dr. Conley and his team offered a relentlessly positive assessment of Mr. Trump’s condition. “This morning the president is doing very well,” Dr. Conley said. “At this time, the team and I are extremely happy with the progress the president has made.”

The doctors said Mr. Trump had been free of fever for 24 hours and had blood pressure and heart rates that were normal for him. Asked why he moved Mr. Trump to the hospital, Dr. Conley said, “Because he’s the president of the United States.”

Dr. Sean N. Dooley, another physician treating the president, said Mr. Trump was feeling optimistic. “He’s in exceptionally good spirits,” Dr. Dooley said. He added that the president told his doctors, “I feel like I could walk out of here today.”
 
blatantly obvious he had COVID for days knowingly and actively hid it, and was happy to spread it about like the fudging hokey cokey.

But hey, he's not Obama and done a great job on the economy so thumbs up!
 
Baleforce said:
Is he though, they look like Trump tweets, but they don’t feel like Trump tweets...
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Well he could be off his tits. I hear rumours he's getting some experimental drug treatments. There are a few ways I could go from here as it is perfectly setup for a joke, but the thing that occurred to me is why? Why is he getting experimental drug roostertails and I'm not. Seriously, if they are using him as a guinea pig then he must really be in a jocker.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Obama would have been doing selfies from his hospital bed

View attachment 9582
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Grays. You do understand the irony of calling out Obama for some TV appearances and a few showbiz moments. Would you rather he had got in to office via the B movie actor route like Reagan (who knew a media opportunity), and as for Trump, there has never been a bigger media and attention fluffy bunnies cuddling than him in office ever. Clinton literally jazzed it up, George W has done Leno and others...I can tell you that without Obamacare, several of my friends here would be broke or dead. Fact.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Riding on the coat tails for 3 years is huge mater of opinion and I am not here to defend trump, but regardless of how is it painted his 2.5% economy rise on average stacks up against Obama at 2.4% Unemployment hit a 50 year low under Trump aswell and wages have continued to rise or were at least.

At the end of the day I am not here to defend Trump, the guy is a clam, the point is PR or positive PR can mask a multitude of faults.

I read alot of what West wrote about Obama over the years ans as a black american professor and alot of it is damning and hard to get away from.

Even Mrs Clinton took a rougher time for things than Obama because of her negative PR perception when what she did came under his watch
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Cornell West had many interesting observations, a few of which I agree with (drones/Wall St) but the bail-out (which will always be his biggest criticism) came at a time when he was relatively new in the job and fighting to get universal healthcare. As is always the way, "compromises" had to be made. I don't necessarily agree with them, however that is mainstream politics. Never forget that the US was barely ready for a black President, so yes, he probably did work on his PR. Never forget that many, many other western nations are still not ready for a black leader (tragically). Again though, to say he coasted through his two terms is simply wrong.
 
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