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Kyle Walker

Spur of the moment said:
Please read my post again, I explained the reason why Walker should have have hung back. This kind of brainfart where we gift the ball to the oppo in front of the box happens time and time again so surely it's time we learnt our lesson?
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That is not how we play .. not my opinion, Poch style

I sat and watched open training less than two weeks ago, where we did a half field drill, pass out from Keeper -> CB -> CM -> FB, rinse and repeat. The drill ended when the FB got the ball in full flight at half line or further. In this specific play, Walker was actually the deeper of the two (Davies was even higher up as furthest forward option), it's only Walker's crazy pace that even allowed him to get back.

This is the reason many people have argued for a dedicated DM or a Carrick/Modric type controlling the center, because the way we play, leaves the FBs too high up the pitch.

What you are effectively saying is Poch has no idea what he is doing, Walker should understand that, ignore orders and provide cover for the brick style Poch wants to implement.
 
Raziel, can you see that in your last sentence you suggest I'm saying Poch has no idea what he is doing yet in your previous sentence you effectively conceded my point by arguing (or at least appearing to endorse the argument of others) that we need a dedicated DM in order to free up the FBs?

Precisely! Until we get that dedicated DM, the FBs need to apply better judgement about how soon and how far to get up the pitch.

Btw, maybe you didn't see it but in post 1709 above I stated that I'm aware the FBs have orders to get further up the pitch.
 
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Spur of the moment said:
Raziel, can you see that in your last sentence you suggest I'm saying Poch has no idea what he is doing yet in your previous sentence you effectively conceded my point by arguing (or at least appearing to endorse the argument of others) that we need a dedicated DM in order to free up the FBs?

Precisely! Until we get that dedicated DM, the FBs need to apply better judgement about how soon and how far to get up the pitch.

Btw, maybe you didn't see it but in post 1709 above I stated that I'm aware the FBs have orders to get further up the pitch.
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Not disagreeing that the system is slightly suicidal .. my point = you just can't blame the player for doing exactly what he's told
 
Spur of the moment said:
Many fans are excusing Walker for his og at OT today because the real culprit was undoubtly Bentaleb, but let's be frank, Kyle was not entirely blameless either.

Imo it was once again his over-eagerness to get forward that left him far too much to do to get back, so it was no surprise to me when it all went pear-shaped. He had left his flank totally exposed with acres of of space behind him for Rooney to exploit - so the inevitable happened.

I fully get that without a wide man up front his instructions from Pochettino are to get high up the flank to support the attack but surely to goodness he needs to use better judgement? Rooney was allowed far too much space long before that cross came in and fast though Walker can be the distance he had to make up was always going to be a problem.

Other than that I thought he had one of his better games overall but it's no good playing well for 89 minutes if the one loss of concentration proves critical like it did today. He really needs to stop getting forward too early otherwise this sort of thing is going to happen again and again with similarly disastrous consequences.
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This is way OOT IMHO; in fact I would say it is totally ridiciculous.

Walker was perfectly positioned; using the width of the pitch but actually still within our own half. In fact he was more withdrawn than Davies in order to give a deeper option to the ball carrier

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He starts yards from Rooney

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but - as people said - literally busts a gut to almost replicate King's famous tackle on Robben

Manure2.jpg

As for him giving Rooney space??? Come on! If you want to point fingers do it at Dier and the CBs who get sucked towards the ball... but, in fairness what could they do? It is only natural....

The only blame for the goal rests purely and squarely on Bentaleb

As for Walk, not only does he not have any fault with the o.g., but he should really be commended for it.
 
I thought Walker had a good game yesterday. He busted a gut to try and get back to Rooney. Bentaleb made the initial mistake and then you have to question the positioning of the centre backs and Dier. As for Walker I thought he defended admirably against Young.
 
Walker looks back to nearly his best yesterday ( the summer break has helped with his recovery), anyone who blames him for the goal is not really seeing things well ( imo).
 
Every one on here knows that I am not a fan, but I have to say, I was very pleased with his performance and in no way could he be blamed for the goal.
 
The second picture shows what the problem was. At this point we are three vs three with two other Spurs players closing in and nearer than the next nearest ManU player. So we should be able to defend this position. But then look at the CBs. One, Verts, presumably, has squared up and is the wrong side of his man. The other, presumably Toby, is watching the ball and has no idea what is in the space behind him.

If they had dropped off, and not been ball watching, the midfielder would have picked up the runner, the CBs would be 2vs2, and there would be no need for any last minute desperation from Walker.
 
Looking at those stills I'm just as convinced as before that Walker was too far advanced, he did not need to be so far upfield because play was way over the other side of the pitch. Look at the massive amount of space between him and Rooney when things were starting to go pear-shaped. He should have been watching what was going on around him.

Yes he did brilliantly getting back so fast but had he been just a few yards less advanced he'd have not only got there in time but able to stay in control, instead of having to jab at the ball like he did and inadvertently steer it into our own net.

It fudging drives me crazy the number of times this sort of thing happens to us. Our wing-backs are always getting too far upfield then discovering they're too far away from our own area to do anything about it when the opposition unexpectedly gain possession midfield and spring an attack.

It's a question of judgement and common sense when and how far to get upfield when the ball is still in your own half, especially given the number of times things go wrong.

As I said before, a similar thing happened in the friendly only a few days earlier against RM when Bentaleb misplaced a pass in front the box as we were building from the back only for Bale to seize on the mistake and gleefully plant the ball in the back of the net. Not saying any blame attaches to Walker on that occasion, more that it should have been a warning not to get too far upfield too soon in case things go wrong as we bring the ball forward out of defence.

No wonder we concede so many soft goals, especially to top teams that have sussed our style of play and find it such a doddle to exploit the wide open spaces we leave at the back.

As I've said before he had an excellent game yesterday but as one of the back four so distant from the rest he was not entirely blameless for the goal.
 
In that case, take it up with Poch and his system - not Walker.

With inverted wingers, unless both FBs press up to widen the pitch simultaneously, the opposition has the easiest of tasks to close us down.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Looking at those stills I'm just as convinced as before that Walker was too far advanced, he did not need to be so far upfield because play was way over the other side of the pitch. Look at the massive amount of space between him and Rooney when things were starting to go pear-shaped. He should have been watching what was going on around him.

Yes he did brilliantly getting back so fast but had he been just a few yards less advanced he'd have not only got there in time but able to stay in control, instead of having to jab at the ball like he did and inadvertently steer it into our own net.

It ****ing drives me crazy the number of times this sort of thing happens to us. Our wing-backs are always getting too far upfield then discovering they're too far away from our own area to do anything about it when the opposition unexpectedly gain possession midfield and spring an attack.

It's a question of judgement and common sense when and how far to get upfield when the ball is still in your own half, especially given the number of times things go wrong.

As I said before, a similar thing happened in the friendly only a few days earlier against RM when Bentaleb misplaced a pass in front the box as we were building from the back only for Bale to seize on the mistake and gleefully plant the ball in the back of the net. Not saying any blame attaches to Walker on that occasion, more that it should have been a warning not to get too far upfield too soon in case things go wrong as we bring the ball forward out of defence.

No wonder we concede so many soft goals, especially to top teams that have sussed our style of play and find it such a doddle to exploit the wide open spaces we leave at the back.

As I've said before he had an excellent game yesterday but as one of the back four so distant from the rest he was not entirely blameless for the goal.
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I think it depends on the system of play and what your manager has asked you to do. There is no way Walker is that advanced because he just decided he is really a wing back. Poch likes to play like this with advanced full backs, and DMs to shore up the defence as we transition into attack, and will have worked on it in the training ground. Walker will be playing to orders.

Equally Walker trusts his DM partners not to give possession away in dangerous positions. Otherwise he might as well get narrow to the CBs and never get forward at all. (There is nothing worse as a full back than going on the overlap only to discover that the midfielder has given the ball away, and they are attacking in behind you, meaning you have to run all the way back, and making you look at fault)

So I don't think Walker can carry any blame at all for the goal other than, having made it all the way back he might as well make a decent tackle -but it would have been a bonus if he had succeeded.

Personally I like to see the full back on the opposite side of play developing sit back a bit so they can swing in with the CBs if required. But in this case we had enough players to deal with the situation, they just coped with it badly.
 
ringo said:
I think it depends on the system of play and what your manager has asked you to do. There is no way Walker is that advanced because he just decided he is really a wing back. Poch likes to play like this with advanced full backs, and DMs to shore up the defence as we transition into attack, and will have worked on it in the training ground. Walker will be playing to orders.
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But Poch doesn't play with any DM's, we dont really have any in the first team squad.
 
JimmyB... you said that Walker literally bust a gut to get back in.

If that was the case he would have required extensive surgery at a hospital, a blood transfusion, general anaesthetic, stitches, several days of rest if not weeks... I seriously doubt that he literally bust his gut
 
Spur of the moment said:
Looking at those stills I'm just as convinced as before that Walker was too far advanced, he did not need to be so far upfield because play was way over the other side of the pitch. Look at the massive amount of space between him and Rooney when things were starting to go pear-shaped. He should have been watching what was going on around him.
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Spurs had the ball and were under no pressure so how was he suppose to know that Bentaleb was going to gift teh ball to an opposing player?

Walker is the right back who is suppose to be defending our right flank and was also providing more attacking width than any other Spurs player on the pitch and now he is getting blamed for being too far forward and not covering their striker????
 
NaijaSpurs said:
Spurs had the ball and were under no pressure so how was he suppose to know that Bentaleb was going to gift teh ball to an opposing player?

Walker is the right back who is suppose to be defending our right flank and was also providing more attacking width than any other Spurs player on the pitch and now he is getting blamed for being too far forward and not covering their striker????
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Maybe read my post(s) again? I have already explained exactly why he needed to be more cautious and aware of the risk.
 
Walker and Davies were both where they should have been to provide the right passing option for the team. Whilst they are not going to be much use on the cover for the counter against us, Dier and Bentaleb are expected to be there to cover for that eventuality.

Walker was very good yesterday.
 
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