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*TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Stevenage OMT *

totman said:
Bingo.

Now try telling Punk that :tumbleweed:
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Giving and going will get you nowhere unless you actually pass it forward once in a while. MK I don't understand what you mean by "keeping things ticking along". To me that is keeping possession, gaining territorial advantage by initiating passes that enable the team to move forward, probing for space in the defence and recycling possession all the while looking for the right opportunity to strike. Rafa is very good at doing this; drawing the opposition onto us then unleashing a devastating through ball as is modric. Parker is only useful in this sense if he is playing with them. A few times tonight he had the ball, lots of options dribbled in a little ten yard space for a bit then passed it backwards.Parker playing continuous one two's with the CB is a mystery to me; can I ask you how it makes us play better?

Keeping things ticking over to me is what Scholes does at united, Modric/Rafa do for us, Xavi does for Barca, Fabgregarse did for Arsenal, Pirlo did for milan, Alonso does for Real, Carrick did for us. Parker doesn't contribute to our attacking play in a positive way unless he is used as a means for a return one two with the attackers and even then he doesn't really read it well and dallies on the ball.
 
punk_is_back` said:
Dubai i'm not arguing for the sake or arguing but I see it differently. Parker dives in most of the time and that leads to three possible outcomes, him on a yellow, a good tackle or him on the deck whilst the opposition are free to waltz pass our midfield into our box. Livermore stays tight and stays on his feet against his man which limits the possibilites. Defensively I would say they are equal, parker's anticipation at clearances from balls into danger areas is better whilst livermore is brilliant at Anchoring and protecting the space in front of the defence from on coming attackers (partly due to his athleticism); with the ball Livermore is miles further. I believe that there is a massive onus on deep lying DMs to bring the ball from defence into midfield to gain the territorial advantage; parker does not do this well and as a whole we play deeper and our build up play is slower unless we are on the break.
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You make some good points, and again, I'm not arguing that Parker doesn't have faults; he does, quite a few. And Livermore may well have the ability to surpass Parker in time. But at the moment, he's still got a LOT to learn about positioning and decision-making, i.e when to close down his man and when to stand off him. Too often he does too much of one or too little of the other, and ends up leaving space behind or in front of him for the better players to exploit. It's true his athleticism gets him out of difficult situations. Parker isn't as big, as imposing or as fast, so he has to rely a lot more on his experience and know-how to get the job done, and, considering the amount of youth we already have in our ranks, I'd say going for a bit more experience in the middle is no bad thing.

Ah, who cares, Sandro will end them both anyway. ;)

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Crawley said:
I actually see the point you're making here, but think you may have over-simplified it.

Ultimately, Parker isn't as prone to the "bad ball" that Jake is still prone to, so on that basis alone parker still has the upper hand.
But I see Livermore developing, possibly under parkers guidance.
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Livermore's recent passing in his two most recent games, Everton and United was amazing and he can be hardly culpable of playing "bad balls". In fact he played a lot of good crossfield ball switching play to "make us tick". I believe his pass rate was in the high 80%s for united and in the 90% bracket for everton. I shall discount he Stevenage away game as all players were not helped by the pitch. Parker's passing is not that good even over short distances, its his forward passing that is bad, Livermore currently is much better at a simple 10 yard forward ball to reach Modric or Rafa. Parker will wait for the other person to come collect off him. An if you think Livermore is prone to the bad ball, parker messed up a few simple through balls to Lennon that any of us would have been able to do tonight whilst under no pressure at all from the opposition.
 
Punk, while I have massive respect for the fact you have not backed down on your opinion of Parker just to please the masses, I still think that it is impossible to deny what he has helped the team to achieve this season.

You have also recently just swapped Sandro for Livermore in your quest to show Parker as "not good enough"
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Livermore is also more wasteful on the ball, with an inferior first touch (massively so actually). If you're right, then Livermore will be at the Euro's and Parker won't be. My guess is that you'll be proven wrong.
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\MK that is just your opinion I see it as the opposite. Parker does have good technique running with the ball however. And with regards to wasteage I can point you towards the Everton and United games where Livermore had amazing passing stats playing a more expansive game than Park.erWalcott right now looks to have more of a chance of going to the Euro's than Chamberlain and Lennon. Is he better than both of them? In fact I would make Parker my 1st choice CM for the euro's as at that sort of level its a lot about heart and galvanising the team around you to play better in 6 consecutive cup finals than over a 50 game a year season where balance and tactics is more important.
 
totman said:
Punk, while I have massive respect for the fact you have not backed down on your opinion of Parker just to please the masses, I still think that it is impossible to deny what he has helped the team to achieve this season.

You have also recently just swapped Sandro for Livermore in your quest to show Parker as "not good enough"
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Sandro is good, but I just think his development has stalled due to injuries. I think purely restricting him to a defensive role would be stupid as he has the potential to be a Vieira type player whilst I think that Livermore will become a Butt or Fletcher level player. Both have good defensive instincts and worked well in the double pivotes we used against united on saturday. I don't think with our midfielders it should be a case of two first choice and 3 back ups. We carefully select whoever we have out of modric, parker, hudd, sandro, Livermore to
allow us to gain the upperhand against the oppositon CM. In fact I don't hate parker, I think he's a pretty good guy and he is my no1 choice for England Captain. I just think we are capable of so much more with someone else holding than him; notice I said someone else holding rather than someone else in CM than him. I believe that if fit Hudd and Parker would make a good CM pairing, very similar and offering the balance that Gattuso and Pirlo had. Parker has a tendancy to charge around and having the more disciplined Hudd out there allows him to do that and press further upfield whilst Hudd sweeps up the leftovers gracefully and dictates the play.
 
totman said:
Punk, while I have massive respect for the fact you have not backed down on your opinion of Parker just to please the masses, I still think that it is impossible to deny what he has helped the team to achieve this season.

You have also recently just swapped Sandro for Livermore in your quest to show Parker as "not good enough"
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Fair play to you, MK and Dubai for debating the point rather than getting all irate that I was criticising a fans favourite. Too many people are quick to lynch if Parker is criticised.
 
DHSF said:
Wimp going for the OMT against a team 50 or so league places below us
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All I can do is beat what is in front of me.

Also, I always get beaten to OMT's. This is my first of the season. I pretty much get to do 1 a year!
 
punk_is_back` said:
Fair play to you, MK and Dubai for debating the point rather than getting all irate that I was criticising a fans favourite. Too many people are quick to lynch if Parker is criticised.
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I can't tell if that was directed at me, but for clarity - you will find far more posts from me querying Parkers contribution than eulogising it. if he was more consistantly fit I would play Sandro as the holding mid, despite the groundswell of opinion to the contrary.
 
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