New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)

[alekaras]

Yep. Think Todger had a far more successful record at Celtic than Ange does as well - they have between two and eight games a season that actually matter in that tinpot league of theirs, and those are the CL games + games against Rangers. Think Ange was winless and got knocked out of Europe both years, and he lost 3-0 to Rangers a while back.

This is the cheap option, imo. If we indeed want him, we're picking him because he's cheap and easily cowed, same as Nuno. Which makes his odds of success pretty low, just like Nuno.

He's 2023's Nuno, except Nuno actually managed in a competitive league and did decently for a while.

When have we ever been cheap on managers? It's fine if you want to stick to a narrative, but at least do it with facts.

 

[alekaras]

The trouble is that the pros need to be weighted against the level at which he has been working - when you're working in a league further down the ladder there's much more scope for improvement compared to stronger leagues where the standards are higher

Not necessarily. Someone's coaching style, albeit at a lower level league, may translate perfectly to a higher level league. What's important is for the scouting team to be able to see this. And neither you nor I have those qualifications.

 

[billyiddo]

Not necessarily. Someone's coaching style, albeit at a lower level league, may translate perfectly to a higher level league. What's important is for the scouting team to be able to see this. And neither you nor I have those qualifications.

It can and I'm not saying it won't, but you need to factor these things in when evaluating their performance otherwise like @DubaiSpur says, why not appoint non league managers that play attacking football and give off good vibes?


Even his biggest bigger upper on here @tommysvr has said the Japanese league is flaky with teams going from relegation to title challenging all the time, that puts in to question those achievements straight away to me and then what do we have after that? International football (lol) and Scottish football (double lol) I'm sorry but this guys reputation is built on sand.

 

[AdamB]

I was never on the Ange bandwagon, even though he's a fellow Greek, and I don't know much about him, but let's list the pros and cons based on what we have all heard or read:

Pros:

• He has won everywhere he has managed, in most cases completely turning teams around
• He is adored by the fans and players of every team he has managed
• He plays modern attacking football
• He improves players
• He is a great communicator
• He is a bigger-than-life figure that takes no BS from anyone
• And since we admire how well Brighton is run, he was one of Brighton's two preferred options (possibly the preferred option, depending on what you choose to believe) after Potter left

Cons:

• But he's only managed in Scotland, Japan, and Australia
• He's 57
• He's Australian

So yeah, when you compare the pros and cons, it's really daft of us to even consider him.

Other pro is that there any many options remaining who would consider us and who play attacking football

 

[Mikey10]

Not if yout not obsessed with what other clubs are doing it's not.

After 4 years of drastically getting it wrong the most important thing to get right undoubtedly is the managers appointment, if we get that right and all people have to moan about is the time it took I can deal with that trade off.

It's going to take more than one season to unpick the past and rebuild for the future.

Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk

Erm…it makes no difference if anyone is ‘obsessed’ with what other clubs are doing. Point is, they’ll be getting their ducks in a row to start next season as strongly as possible. We’ve got no DoF, no manager and - given that we’ve known since January we’d be looking for the latter - seemingly no plan.

As for taking our time to get the decision right, forgive me if I don’t hold out much confidence there, given the Nuno debacle and its aftermath.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

Other pro is that there any many options remaining who would consider us and who play attacking football

Don’t be so sure.

 

[DubaiSpur]

When have we ever been cheap on managers? It's fine if you want to stick to a narrative, but at least do it with facts.

Nuno, precisely 1 (one) manager ago.

 

[alekaras]

There are guys in non-league that tell their teams to just go out and play - would you be happy having them as our manager?

There are probably coaches in all corners of the world that can do that - not hard to do what Redknapp did and just let the players vibe. But appointing the record champion of, say, the Zimbabwean third division or the Kazakh Intramural Championship is probably not your idea of competence. Same with Ange.

Interestingly enough, there may be some coaches whose management style and tactics would bomb in the Zimbabwean 3rd division, but be tailor made for the PL. The trick is to be able to project how they would translate to the PL. And neither you, nor I, are qualified to do that, or even have 1/10th of the information needed to do that.

 

[Mikey10]

YEs, and this is our problem with our hire & fire policy with managers. It means that managers who are in a good position at their clubs are unlikely to quit to join us unless its a massively upwards step. Why quit a decent role to move to somewhere which changes manager every 12-18 months?

So we now cant get the managers we want, so need to take more of a gamble, which increases the chances they fail...so we'll fire another manager

We need to break that cycle, ideally by some decent signings to make it easier for a manager to succeed and make the role more attractive

Yip. We’ve come a long way from the posts on here in the immediate aftermath of the Conte sacking which were saying we simply need to approach Nagelsmann, De Zerbi, Slot, Kompany etc and they’ll be at Hotspur Way before sundown. Reality is starting to bite - lots of managers don’t want to work for Levy.

 

[alekaras]

It can and I'm not saying it won't, but you need to factor these things in when evaluating their performance otherwise like @DubaiSpur says, why not appoint non league managers that play attacking football and give off good vibes?


Even his biggest bigger upper on here @tommysvr has said the Japanese league is flaky with teams going from relegation to title challenging all the time, that puts in to question those achievements straight away to me and then what do we have after that? International football (lol) and Scottish football (double lol) I'm sorry but this guys reputation is built on sand.

You don't appoint non-league managers to a PL club. You want them to get some more experience in a league that is closer to the PL. But it also doesn't have to be the next closest league to the PL. It is completely different to appoint a manager from non-league to the PL than appointing a manager from the SPL or Eredivisie to a PL club.

Also, I don't think tommy said the J-League is flaky. He said it is quite competitive, with 9 different teams having won the title in the past 15 years.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It can and I'm not saying it won't, but you need to factor these things in when evaluating their performance otherwise like @DubaiSpur says, why not appoint non league managers that play attacking football and give off good vibes?


Even his biggest bigger upper on here @tommysvr has said the Japanese league is flaky with teams going from relegation to title challenging all the time, that puts in to question those achievements straight away to me and then what do we have after that? International football (lol) and Scottish football (double lol) I'm sorry but this guys reputation is built on sand.

But that doesn’t mean he isn’t any good
We don’t know in reality
Hence the reference to his past
I think you have to credit any guy who makes his way up
But you also have to factor in the next guy has to be as sure fire hit as we can get

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Also, I don't think tommy said the J-League is flaky. He said it is quite competitive, with 9 different teams having won the title in the past 15 years.

Japanese clubs have won the AFC Champions League twice since 2009 and Asian clubs have hardly pulled any trees in the Club World Cup. Japan is probably somewhere between the middle and the lower end of the Tier 1 leagues in Asia. That's fairly good in itself but I don't think you can compare that with the level of competition you have in Europe.

 

[alekaras]

Japanese clubs have won the AFC Champions League twice since 2009 and Asian clubs have hardly pulled any trees in the Club World Cup. Japan is probably somewhere between the middle and the lower end of the Tier 1 leagues in Asia. That's fairly good in itself but I don't think you can compare that with the level of competition you have in Europe.

In the last 6 finals a J-League team has featured in 4 of them and won it 3 times. But that's not even what I was talking about. I was talking about the competitiveness of the league itself, in that there aren't 1-2 big teams that always win the title.

 

[Lemonade Money]

All I kept reading on here was ' I don't care about trophies, just want to enjoy attractive style of football'.

Now here's a guy we potentially want, who plays an attacking style and has a track record of changing a clubs fortunes but a lot of our fans still whinge. Have seen plenty turn their nose up at Nagelsman, Potter and many others. I honestly think a lot of fans are looking for this magical perfect manager that doesn't exist....

I don't know why you engage with the idiots, they'd be whinging about any new owners before you know it.

 

[Lemonade Money]

It can and I'm not saying it won't, but you need to factor these things in when evaluating their performance otherwise like @DubaiSpur says, why not appoint non league managers that play attacking football and give off good vibes?


Even his biggest bigger upper on here @tommysvr has said the Japanese league is flaky with teams going from relegation to title challenging all the time, that puts in to question those achievements straight away to me and then what do we have after that? International football (lol) and Scottish football (double lol) I'm sorry but this guys reputation is built on sand.

We're Mourinho's, Nuno's or Conte's reputation built on sand?
Is it a hard and fast rule?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I hope he along with others turn us down .... forcing levy to accept defeat and step down. We are a shambles.

Bet you can't wait for us to join Leeds and Leicester.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

In the last 6 finals a J-League team has featured in 4 of them and won it 3 times. But that's not even what I was talking about. I was talking about the competitiveness of the league itself, in that there aren't 1-2 big teams that always win the title.

You're correct about the stat but the competitiveness of the league itself is irrelevant, I think. The Albanian league might be very competitive (I don't know if it is, it's just an example) but I still wouldn't consider someone who had never managed elsewhere.

In very poor leagues, continental competitions are often a good indication of how a manager is doing. When you drop down to a certain level, one good player is often enough to make a difference but such teams get found out at continental level.

Then again, it's going to be a throw of the dice, whoever it is. For what it's worth, I read some good things about Postecoglou when he was managing Australia. But there's so much more than the technical side to succeed at any club, let alone a club like Spurs. We saw that with Conte.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All I kept reading on here was ' I don't care about trophies, just want to enjoy attractive style of football'.

Now here's a guy we potentially want, who plays an attacking style and has a track record of changing a clubs fortunes but a lot of our fans still whinge. Have seen plenty turn their nose up at Nagelsman, Potter and many others. I honestly think a lot of fans are looking for this magical perfect manager that doesn't exist....

The unicorn

 

[nattenskonge]

Ange or Thomas Frank? I belive its one of them

 

[billyiddo]

We're Mourinho's, Nuno's or Conte's reputation built on sand?
Is it a hard and fast rule?

Conte & Mourinho obviously have valid reputations at the highest level but not in relation to the job that was required here. Nuno didn't really have much of a reputation and was an act of desperation. Don't see the relevance of that as a response to my post tbh