World Cup Group G - Germany, Portugal, Ghana, USA

[IowaSpur]

I think one of England or the USA will win the 2034 WC played in Antarctica

Hell, I'd take it :ross:

 

[Jordinho]

Whilst Im not commenting on the original point you guys were discussing I do agree with your points regarding the game in the US. When Soccer gets to a serious level there I can see them producing very astute athletes. The only thing that would worry me, and maybe I am wrong. Is that the US sports systems put a lot of emphasis on tangibles. Like Speed, height, strength etc. This can all be very useful in creating a good team. But we have also to take note that this is one of the problems that has held england back. To much emphasis at the youth level on physical prowess and not the technical ability. Watching the US team reminds me a lot of watching England. And I dont think they are that far off each other at world level.

The Womens US soccer team is a good example. There are some very bad players at womens level for a lot of nations. But the US team is always at the Top due to the physical side of the game and that their players are at the top of that.

Whilst the US certainly has a lot of people to draw form in terms of athletes. Side Like Holland, Chille and even Portugal have shown its not the amount of population that makes the difference but the coaching and talent at the technical level. I really hope that England start to take on some of what Hoddle has been saying for a long time, but I also feel the US needs to do the same.

Most kids know 'soccer' and like kicking the ball about. It is just so easy to get started with and far more rewarding than tossing that egg back and forth. I would guess that of the biggest hurdles right now is getting more funding in high school and college, instead of talent disappearing into the more renowned sports programmes.

 

[milo]

Portugal are very fortunate to be still in the WC. They hardly played like a team aiming to win the WC. Thought they will be fired up after scoring the early goal but they couldn't lift their game after that. The Americans did well to equalise and take the lead, especially Dempsey who scored his second goal of the WC. Ronaldo had a poor game but came up with the crucial assist for their goal deep in injury time. Based on this performance, just can't see Portugal progressing to the next round. Can see Ghana beating Portugal in the next match.

Even if Portugal win somehow, can see the US and Germany playing for a draw. Somehow can see Klinsmann and the Germany having a gentleman's agreement to draw. The Germans have done it before, when they unshamedly played out a "friendly" 1-0 win over Austria in 1982 WC to enable both teams to progress at the expense of Algeria. So, won't be surprised if Germany and US end up drawing to enable both to progress.

Looking at Portugal's poor form, it only proves the fact that almost all the European teams are struggling in this WC. Only exception has been France but they haven't been really tested so far. Netherlands did well to beat Spain but then it was against a poor Spain who had a man send off. Netherlands was then poor against Australia and fortunate to win. Maybe the hot climate have something to do with that, but you can see why no European team have done well in the WC when it is hosted in South America.

I don't agree with this reading of the tournament. Brazil and Argentina have hardly shined either and both have had disappointing results.

I think that the story of the group stages has been that the gap between the top teams and the rest internationally has narrowed and that well organised teams (Iran, Costa Rica, Australia, USA, Chile...) can punch well above their weight.

It will be interesting to see whether this continues into the knock out rounds or if the old order up their game.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Fapatalk

 

[thfcsteff]

I'd rather see the best players in the latter stages yes. I'd rather see Iniesta, fabregas etc than Dempsey for example!!

Oh not this again! You mean the SAME Dempsey that scored 12 goals we did not replace last season? The same Dempsey that fights and battles every single game? Look, for every Iniesta you need a Dempsey. Loom at Spain without Puyol, ****ing hopeless and rudderless. I get so tired of people ****ging Dempsey. I make no bones about saying that I wish, wholeheartedly, we'd had him last season and had him for the coming season. A fabulous member of any squad.

 

[thfcsteff]

Whilst Im not commenting on the original point you guys were discussing I do agree with your points regarding the game in the US. When Soccer gets to a serious level there I can see them producing very astute athletes. The only thing that would worry me, and maybe I am wrong. Is that the US sports systems put a lot of emphasis on tangibles. Like Speed, height, strength etc. This can all be very useful in creating a good team. But we have also to take note that this is one of the problems that has held england back. To much emphasis at the youth level on physical prowess and not the technical ability. Watching the US team reminds me a lot of watching England. And I dont think they are that far off each other at world level.

The Womens US soccer team is a good example. There are some very bad players at womens level for a lot of nations. But the US team is always at the Top due to the physical side of the game and that their players are at the top of that.

Whilst the US certainly has a lot of people to draw form in terms of athletes. Side Like Holland, Chille and even Portugal have shown its not the amount of population that makes the difference but the coaching and talent at the technical level. I really hope that England start to take on some of what Hoddle has been saying for a long time, but I also feel the US needs to do the same.

I think these are very interesting points, and would like to address them specifically as I feel that for a long time it was a massive issue. BUt, critically, a decade ago I saw changes in the attitude and vision of coaching in the US which came hand-in-hand with the first generation of US kids born to foreign parents who themselves were born with the game. Thus there is an influx of young players and coaches who actually grew up from the cradle with what I would call a 'world view' of what football is. The vision, the tactical awareness and the technical ability as well as the physical aspect. My son is 22 and American, yet was obviously born of British Dad who remains obsessed. When he started playing, some coaches did not understand vision over running, but as time went on, he saw the change year to year. Due to injuries he has ended up taking a coaching path and is now finishing his degree whilst coaching at a university and working summer camps at Stanford. He works with young coaches who are a mix of foreign and Americans of foreigners born. And they really see it far more than their predecessors.

I think it's important to recognize what the Lalas and Harkes did for US footy. They trailblazed when it was unfashionable in the US. But this crop that Klinsmann is developing, I think they're the first sign of a whole wave of talent which will come through in the next decade. I would argue that the way the US controlled possession against Portugal should show everyone that in a decade, they will absolutely be a premier force in the global game.

In short, I think the US is ahead of us in terms of their attempts to progress with coaching methods and technical aspects. They are egoless in a sense because they know they're 'new' to it in a global sense. Meanwhile, England cannot decide whether to stick or twist, who to sack and who to hire, what direction to go and for how long and stumble around feeling we 're still a power. We have the players but where is the next wave? If they're there, we should be seeing them more and more? I want to see Glenn Hoddle appointed the head of our youth set-up, I want managers who would be able to work with him technically, like Hiddink, to be considered for the manager's job long-term (I'm talking 8 years) and I would love to see some patience and deep understanding of what has to happen in our game for it to move forwards. We could do worse than pinching Jurgen when he has finished building the US!

 

[Roy1983]

Oh not this again! You mean the SAME Dempsey that scored 12 goals we did not replace last season? The same Dempsey that fights and battles every single game? Look, for every Iniesta you need a Dempsey. Loom at Spain without Puyol, ****ing hopeless and rudderless. I get so tired of people ****ging Dempsey. I make no bones about saying that I wish, wholeheartedly, we'd had him last season and had him for the coming season. A fabulous member of any squad.

It was merely an example but yes I'd rather watch an Iniesta to a Dempsey lol not too hard to comprehend the gulf in class Steff come on! Dempsey is ok...sure...but I want to see world class playing world class hence my original post.

 

[Roy1983]

Also Steff if he was so fabulous he'd never have joined us in the first place for the line of top 4 clubs lining up, he'd never have left us in the first place and he'd never have returned to Fulham from the bloody MLS league. Come on.

 

[thfcsteff]

It was merely an example but yes I'd rather watch an Iniesta to a Dempsey lol not too hard to comprehend the gulf in class Steff come on! Dempsey is ok...sure...but I want to see world class playing world class hence my original post.

Right, but if football was like that then no-one would watch any side other than the elite 8-10 richest teams in the world who can afford all these 'geniuses' mate…and if that's what the game becomes, then count me out.

 

[thfcsteff]

Also Steff if he was so fabulous he'd never have joined us in the first place for the line of top 4 clubs lining up, he'd never have left us in the first place and he'd never have returned to Fulham from the bloody MLS league. Come on.

You can pick this argument all day mate and I'll take it every single time. He was, in our shirt, a very very effective player who got maligned because he wasn't Iniesta!
Do you remember a player called Mark Falco? Same sort of story. Unsexy yet always knocking them in. Important goals too many of them. He was mugged off all the time by some, but we missed his goals when he wasn't there…
If you cannot admit that you'd have been delighted to see a Dempsey-type player in our set-up, then I have to say I think you're lying to yourself mate.

 

[Roy1983]

You can pick this argument all day mate and I'll take it every single time. He was, in our shirt, a very very effective player who got maligned because he wasn't Iniesta!
Do you remember a player called Mark Falco? Same sort of story. Unsexy yet always knocking them in. Important goals too many of them. He was mugged off all the time by some, but we missed his goals when he wasn't there…
If you cannot admit that you'd have been delighted to see a Dempsey-type player in our set-up, then I have to say I think you're lying to yourself mate.

Dempsey was replaced by Erikssen no? I know who I'd prefer to see kicking a ball around. As I say Dempsey is an ok player nothing more. The lack of interest from top clubs tells a lot IMO.

 

[IowaSpur]

Dempsey was replaced by Erikssen no? I know who I'd prefer to see kicking a ball around. As I say Dempsey is an ok player nothing more. The lack of interest from top clubs tells a lot IMO.

As does his world cup success...

Sent from my S4 using Fapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

 

[Roy1983]

As does his world cup success...

Sent from my S4 using Fapatalk so if there is typos deal with it.

Sorry you've lost me. Are you saying because USA are in the World Cup and Denmark aren't Dempsey is the better of the two? Tell me your not?

 

[Skinhead in a Suit]

I think these are very interesting points, and would like to address them specifically as I feel that for a long time it was a massive issue. BUt, critically, a decade ago I saw changes in the attitude and vision of coaching in the US which came hand-in-hand with the first generation of US kids born to foreign parents who themselves were born with the game. Thus there is an influx of young players and coaches who actually grew up from the cradle with what I would call a 'world view' of what football is. The vision, the tactical awareness and the technical ability as well as the physical aspect. My son is 22 and American, yet was obviously born of British Dad who remains obsessed. When he started playing, some coaches did not understand vision over running, but as time went on, he saw the change year to year. Due to injuries he has ended up taking a coaching path and is now finishing his degree whilst coaching at a university and working summer camps at Stanford. He works with young coaches who are a mix of foreign and Americans of foreigners born. And they really see it far more than their predecessors.

I think it's important to recognize what the Lalas and Harkes did for US footy. They trailblazed when it was unfashionable in the US. But this crop that Klinsmann is developing, I think they're the first sign of a whole wave of talent which will come through in the next decade. I would argue that the way the US controlled possession against Portugal should show everyone that in a decade, they will absolutely be a premier force in the global game.

In short, I think the US is ahead of us in terms of their attempts to progress with coaching methods and technical aspects. They are egoless in a sense because they know they're 'new' to it in a global sense. Meanwhile, England cannot decide whether to stick or twist, who to sack and who to hire, what direction to go and for how long and stumble around feeling we 're still a power. We have the players but where is the next wave? If they're there, we should be seeing them more and more? I want to see Glenn Hoddle appointed the head of our youth set-up, I want managers who would be able to work with him technically, like Hiddink, to be considered for the manager's job long-term (I'm talking 8 years) and I would love to see some patience and deep understanding of what has to happen in our game for it to move forwards. We could do worse than pinching Jurgen when he has finished building the US!

Spot on. The US has played better football than England have so far during this WC and, looking at the future, I can see them progressing at a faster rate too. It's been almost 50 years since we won the WC, and we have one semi-final appearance between then and now (24 years ago) and I'm not sure if we're heading forwards or backwards at this point. The US national team will overtake us shortly, possibly by the time of the 2018 WC on current trends. Just because they don't have the amount of money in their domestic league to attract the top players doesn't mean that there aren't some very good players playing over here. The English team has failed to deliver anything at all since '96 has been consistently over-rated during the period. If the US were to play England today, I'd probably have take a sneaky bet on the US to win.

 

[Baleforce]

it's only a matter of time before USA win the WC

 

[milo]

it's only a matter of time before USA win the WC

Possibly but there are a lot of very good footballing countries that have never won it and the US could just as easily become another one of them

 

[Roy1983]

it's only a matter of time before USA win the WC

Where has this certainty come from all of a sudden that's what I'd love to know?!??

 

[Baleforce]

they pour more money into sport than anyone else, they have an education system which enables them to cherry pick second nationality students from around the world on top of an already massive population

and as for time, well there's a lot of that left, 500 years from now how many countries are gonna be playing soccer ball anyway?

 

[Roy1983]

Well we'll have to wait and see but so long as Spain, Argentina, Germany, Holland and France are competing in world cups, IMO, the USA will never win one. He'll even We won't win one! Anyway, enough from me on this we've done this subject to death!

 

[milo]

Well we'll have to wait and see but so long as Spain, Argentina, Germany, Holland and France are competing in world cups, IMO, the USA will never win one. He'll even We won't win one! Anyway, enough from me on this we've done this subject to death!

A quick question for you. The World Cup has only ever been won by Brazil and France or countries that share a border with them. Can you see that ever changing?

 

[Roy1983]

A quick question for you. The World Cup has only ever been won by Brazil and France or countries that share a border with them. Can you see that ever changing?

No I can't. The elite are too strong IMO.