Why are we struggling to score this season?

[tynesidespur]

We could also do with the three who play behind the CF discovering some form (esp Lamela and Eriksen) and also Dembele staying fit (given that we decided to go into this season with no cover for him)

I think (or hope) the form of the 3 behind the CF maybe linked to not having Kane's intelligent movement/runs ahead of them.

Agree about Dembele.

 

[90291Spur]

I think (or hope) the form of the 3 behind the CF maybe linked to not having Kane's intelligent movement/runs ahead of them.

Agree about Dembele.

Serious question. Who would be cover for Dembele?

 

[tynesidespur]

Serious question. Who would be cover for Dembele?

I think Poch's workaround/plan B means we switch to 4-1-4-1 when Dembele is out. Wanyama the dedicated DM and the 4 in front have more licence to roam forwards in support of the striker. It certainly looked that way to me on Wednesday at Wembley.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Poch's workaround/plan B means we switch to 4-1-4-1 when Dembele is out. Wanyama the dedicated DM and the 4 in front have more licence to roam forwards in support of the striker. It certainly looked that way to me on Wednesday at Wembley.

It is that... with arguably eriksen dropping deeper which is fine if he plays well

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That changes when Harry comes back: "Give me the ball lads, I'll show you how to do that shoot and score thing I'm good at."

The thing with Kane though is he does shoot on sight

Currently we only have Jansenn who does that whilst the other play around the box looking for a perfect goal

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think Poch's workaround/plan B means we switch to 4-1-4-1 when Dembele is out. Wanyama the dedicated DM and the 4 in front have more licence to roam forwards in support of the striker. It certainly looked that way to me on Wednesday at Wembley.

I don't think that is a plan B, per se, just a fitting of the available players into roles that suit. Whether it works is another matter

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Agree. I think we've been struggling to score for a number of reasons. The main one for me is that having watched a bit of Janssen now, I think he likes to play with his back to goal and doesn't make the channel style runs like Kane so Alli/Eriksen/Lamela have no-one to thread the ball through to. We've also suffered some bad luck with hitting the woodwork 7 times and Alli missing some sitters. With the luck running out and only scoring penalties in our last few games we've also ran out of confidence in front of goal. As the article above says I think the forward players are over thinking things.

We need 3 things:

• Kane back to make the right runs to create space.
• Janssen to adapt his game or, in Kane's absence we need to tailor our game so that the 3 behind Janssen make runs beyond him or we put more crosses into the box for him
• A bit of luck for a goal to go in off someone's backside and get us going from open play again.

I agree.

Regarding Janssen. His standout play is his strength and his back to goal play. He is probably better than Kane at this but of course Harry is so much more rounded (run the channel, drop deep and collect it, sniffing in the box, long range accuracy).

But we have to work with what we've got. At his age and the current timeframe/issues we cannot expect VJ to develop too much. We have to play to that one strength he has and that includes the 3 behind realising that VJ is basically a post, one that can not easily be knocked over. He will lay it back to you, lay it sideways or the best thing, lay it round the corner as the onrusher breaks the defensive line. Poch must realise this as it is quite visible.

Two things worry me.
1> He regularly subs Sonny and Alli who in my eyes look well matched for this type of game
2> VJ is not even reguarly starting, constantly chopped and changed with Sonny (who is a completely different type of player, and im not sure if an out and out striker)

I think it may have been better to just stick with VJ to at least have a focus and a consistent game plan even if it took a while to develop. Maybe when Sonny plays up top it just confuses as the approach play gameplan just keeps changing.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think that is a plan B, per se, just a fitting of the available players into roles that suit. Whether it works is another matter

What is a plan B though?

People talk about it but isn't it changing formation and personnel like above?

And we played better playing that way without Dembele than we did with him if that makes sense... Despite him being out best midfielder iMO

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree.

Regarding Janssen. His standout play is his strength and his back to goal play. He is probably better than Kane at this but of course Harry is so much more rounded (run the channel, drop deep and collect it, sniffing in the box, long range accuracy).

But we have to work with what we've got. At his age and the current timeframe/issues we cannot expect VJ to develop too much. We have to play to that one strength he has and that includes the 3 behind realising that VJ is basically a post, one that can not easily be knocked over. He will lay it back to you, lay it sideways or the best thing, lay it round the corner as the onrusher breaks the defensive line. Poch must realise this as it is quite visible.

Two things worry me.
1> He regularly subs Sonny and Alli who in my eyes look well matched for this type of game
2> VJ is not even reguarly starting, constantly chopped and changed with Sonny (who is a completely different type of player, and im not sure if an out and out striker)

I think it may have been better to just stick with VJ to at least have a focus and a consistent game plan even if it took a while to develop. Maybe when Sonny plays up top it just confuses as the approach play gameplan just keeps changing.

You don't build confidence by subbing or dropping players and you don't build consistency either

Last season you could name out aide regularly in advance... Now we have key injuries it's harder and Poch has chopped and changed a lot. Too much IMO. Ben Davies is a good player but for me at Wembley in the two games there he has been scared to go forward and defensively poor. Why not play rose as its a "home" game and Rose has missed a few games already due to injury a so should be freshish.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

What is a plan B though?

People talk about it but isn't it changing formation and personnel like above?

And we played better playing that way without Dembele than we did with him if that makes sense... Despite him being out best midfielder iMO

You're right ...it's nonsense. It is just something that gets rolled out when Plan A has a wobble.

Maybe a Plan B for the last 15mins of a game when the opposition are being stubborn or you're desperate.

Just get Plan A back on track......it has pedigree

 

[StephenH]

There is a lot I agree with in your post. You have to factor in the loss of Dembele and Alderweireld as well as Kane. Three important players. for us. It is fair to say we can just about cover the loss of Toby defensively thanks to wanyama and Verts. We cannot yet cover the loss of dembele and Kane.Dembele to break through pressing teams and Kane for his workrate, link up play and goal threat.

It would be hard for any team to cover the loss of those three even with pots of money because you have to rely on your replacements being as good and slotting into the team seamlessly. I think in view of these player absences it is testament to Poch keeping us unbeaten and in touching distance of the leaders.

I am actually resigned to us exiting the champions league this season. Plenty of good managers have struggled in it and it is poch's first attempt. It wasn't like we were going to win it. If we exit I would like us to really go for it in the league and FA Cup.

I'm not so concerned regarding Dembele absence, has played in 7 so far and we have not won one of them.
I'm not convinced Dembele is adding much to the current midfield, he looks at odds with current blend in midfield which I think looks an awkward and a pale imitation of the one last seasons.

Toby and Harry are sorely missed. I'm unimpressed by the effect of all new purchases have had on this squad. Even the excellent Wanyama looks have had a strange effect on the blend/balance/equilibrium the midfield of last season.

Champions league has gone I think and there is little we seem to be able to do about it. I never expected too much from the CL but our current efforts are a little pathetic the squad are not in a good place ATM.

 

[AdamB]

I think Poch's workaround/plan B means we switch to 4-1-4-1 when Dembele is out. Wanyama the dedicated DM and the 4 in front have more licence to roam forwards in support of the striker. It certainly looked that way to me on Wednesday at Wembley.

That's what it is though - a workaround. We are forced to change formation when Dembele is out because, aside from a youngster in WInks, we dont have natural cover for him. When it was clear that Mason and Bentaleb were leaving, we should have either been going flat out for a replacement (perhaps we were) and if we weren't able to secure one then put either Mason or Bentaleb's deals on hold

 

[AdamB]

I'm not so concerned regarding Dembele absence, has played in 7 so far and we have not won one of them.
I'm not convinced Dembele is adding much to the current midfield, he looks at odds with current blend in midfield which I think looks an awkward and a pale imitation of the one last seasons.

Toby and Harry are sorely missed. I'm unimpressed by the effect of all new purchases have had on this squad. Even the excellent Wanyama looks have had a strange effect on the blend/balance/equilibrium the midfield of last season.

Champions league has gone I think and there is little we seem to be able to do about it. I never expected too much from the CL but our current efforts are a little pathetic the squad are not in a good place ATM.

Dembele was one of or best players last year. He's missed our first 4 league games through suspension.

You comments about him playing in 7 this year and us not wining 1 I dont think is right. He's:

- started 3 in the league and we've 1 won, drawn two and not lost
- started the recent Leverkusen game, though only played 30 mins or so
- was sub and came on in 3 others (drew 2, lost 1)

So when he starts and finished the game we haven't lost this year

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/player/67490/mousa-dembele

 

[Robspur12]

I'm not so concerned regarding Dembele absence, has played in 7 so far and we have not won one of them.
I'm not convinced Dembele is adding much to the current midfield, he looks at odds with current blend in midfield which I think looks an awkward and a pale imitation of the one last seasons.

Toby and Harry are sorely missed. I'm unimpressed by the effect of all new purchases have had on this squad. Even the excellent Wanyama looks have had a strange effect on the blend/balance/equilibrium the midfield of last season.

Champions league has gone I think and there is little we seem to be able to do about it.
We are not in a good place ATM.

Dembeles games have been very stop/ start so I don't think you can draw any serious conclusions yet otherwise we are back where we were at the start of last season with the "What does dembele actually do" discussions. Last season he was a crucial player, I think he is still important albeit may be slightly less so. But you cannot write off the effect of his absence injury to the team this season. Without the dembele of last season we look unable to get through an opposing press to allow us to create goalscoring opportunities.

With regard to being in a bad place I think you are being overly negative. We are still unbeaten and looking solid. That may change on Sunday of course we have to wait and see. But if we can hang in with top teams until we have some of these key players back I think we will be fine for a good run in the second half of the season.

 

[Robspur12]

Dembele was one of or best players last year. He's missed our first 4 league games through suspension.

You comments about him playing in 7 this year and us not wining 1 I dont think is right. He's:

- started 3 in the league and we've 1 won, drawn two and not lost
- started the recent Leverkusen game, though only played 30 mins or so
- was sub and came on in 3 others (drew 2, lost 1)

So when he starts and finished the game we haven't lost this year

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/player/67490/mousa-dembele

Just seen your post mate thanks for illustrating my point.

 

[StephenH]

Dembele was one of or best players last year. He's missed our first 4 league games through suspension.

You comments about him playing in 7 this year and us not wining 1 I dont think is right. He's:

- started 3 in the league and we've 1 won, drawn two and not lost
- started the recent Leverkusen game, though only played 30 mins or so
- was sub and came on in 3 others (drew 2, lost 1)

So when he starts and finished the game we haven't lost this year

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/player/67490/mousa-dembele

"Dembele was one of or best players last year." there were quite a few 'last season'.

Dembele is great when fit. We all love him.

 

[AdamB]

"Dembele was one of or best players last year." there were quite a few 'last season'.

Dembele is great when fit. We all love him.

Before Poch arrived, I wasnt his greatest fan. Last year he was hugely important, but we have left ourselves with no cover for him this year

 

[Robspur12]

"Dembele was one of or best players last year." there were quite a few 'last season'.

Dembele is great when fit. We all love him.

Dembele was crucial last season when you compare our win/lose stats with and without him. His importance was both defensive and offensive ly as already explained. Wanyama has covered him defensively but we have yet to find a way of pushing back pressing teams without him. Without him playing and on the form of last season I am a little concerned about whether we will create much offensively against Arsenal on Sunday. Although with wanyama helping out the back 4 hopefully we will not concede.

 

[StephenH]

Dembeles games have been very stop/ start so I don't think you can draw any serious conclusions yet otherwise we are back where we were at the start of last season with the "What does dembele actually do" discussions. Last season he was a crucial player, I think he is still important albeit may be slightly less so. But you cannot write off the effect of his absence injury to the team this season. Without the dembele of last season we look unable to get through an opposing press to allow us to create goalscoring opportunities.

With regard to being in a bad place I think you are being overly negative. We are still unbeaten and looking solid. That may change on Sunday of course we have to wait and see. But if we can hang in with top teams until we have some of these key players back I think we will be fine for a good run in the second half of the season.

Overly negative, a little. But hardly surprising after the pantomime of Wednesday - I'm thoroughly disheartened at the moment when looking back to City game and what that promised and the height of last season. I'm unsure about many aspects of Pochettino this season. Hoping he can sort it.

 

[Robspur12]

Overly negative, a little. But hardly surprising after the pantomime of Wednesday - I'm thoroughly disheartened at the moment when looking back to City game and what that promised and the height of last season. I'm unsure about many aspects of Pochettino this season. Hoping he can sort it.

Chin up mate I think you've been a Spurs fan even longer than me. We have been through much more negative times. We will be fine this season.