What are they worth?

[harr1984]

The thing is some are valuing players on what they could potentially become and some on what they are worth now. The OP was only talking about the younger players who have been coming through our youth system - Kane,Bentaleb et al. Football clubs nowadays at the highest level purchase young players for what they believe they could become rather than what level they are currently at when signed.

Classic example would be Henderson, how many laughed when Liverpool spent all that money? But Liverpool saw his potential and what they thought they could develop him into and spent such money and I don't see anyone questioning that now. We are doing the same with Lamela, I don't believe anyone at the club thought he was currently a £30m player but rightly or wrongly believe given time he will easily be worth such money.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if clubs were willing to purchase Bentaleb for £12-15m purely because he is what 19/20 and is easy to see his potential and a lot of clubs spend such money on young talented players, it's always a gamble some end up being better purchases than others but I bet there would be some willing to take such a gamble on him.

Either way, it's clear our youth development really is coming to fruition and will be making us money one way or another in the not too distant future....


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[SpurMeUp]

The thing is some are valuing players on what they could potentially become and some on what they are worth now. The OP was only talking about the younger players who have been coming through our youth system - Kane,Bentaleb et al. Football clubs nowadays at the highest level purchase young players for what they believe they could become rather than what level they are currently at when signed.

Classic example would be Henderson, how many laughed when Liverpool spent all that money? But Liverpool saw his potential and what they thought they could develop him into and spent such money and I don't see anyone questioning that now. We are doing the same with Lamela, I don't believe anyone at the club thought he was currently a £30m player but rightly or wrongly believe given time he will easily be worth such money.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if clubs were willing to purchase Bentaleb for £12-15m purely because he is what 19/20 and is easy to see his potential and a lot of clubs spend such money on young talented players, it's always a gamble some end up being better purchases than others but I bet there would be some willing to take such a gamble on him.

Either way, it's clear our youth development really is coming to fruition and will be making us money one way or another in the not too distant future....

All true. A stocks and shares price values a company on its future value, not what it's earning today. Transfer fees no doubt factor that in too to some degree.

Bentaleb as the youngest of the bunch is playing above himself. He's still growing physically, mentally. The question is will he develop? We've seen promising youngsters go nowhere. See - names escapes me - signed from Crystal Palace, as next big thing, now playing in Belgium's second division. Someone mentioned HR seeing determination in Kane, from a young age he wanted to work hard on his game. And that's key, if these promising young players can hold their own in the PL, and have their head screwed on, they can become a £20m+ player with hard work and good guidance - coaching. Bentaleb is the only really 'young' player, and he is an exciting prospect. Worth more than £5m banded around. I think he'd command £10m+

It was interesting to hear that Poch sets players targets. Bentaleb's was something like "dominate the midfield". I can't remember exactly, but something to that effect - develop his presence and take control of the middle. There's an interview somewhere where Bentaleb mentions it, it would be interesting to hear it again.


Mason has been compared to Modric. What does he need to do to become that good? Ergo a £30m+ player.

Kane looks on the right track. Applying himself and working hard. He can do no wrong at the moment. But he will have dips. Psychologically how does he deal with not scoring? Hopefully better than Soldado! Still a £15-20m player on his goals scored record, drive and work rate.

Townsend is frustrating. But his tenacity to try something and push the envelop attracts people. He could be a player that makes things happen. For his value to go up he needs more composure at the end of his drives forward. I think he compares to Lennon at around 23. If he had the right coach and started every week, he'd be as good as Lennon was, possibly with more goals.

I really think Rose can be similar to Walker. In some games this season he's looked close to the complete player to me. If settled he can be one of the best left backs in the land. I think he could fetch £15m now.

 

[frankthetank]

Morning all.

Some bizarre numbers are being thrown around on here.

I like Mason, but unless he adds goals and assists to his game, then his only trajectory from Spurs is downwards, and I don't honestly think Spurs would get more than £3-4m at present.

As for Townsend, I'm guessing that only an English coach would consider buying him, which has to keep his value in check. Anyone who values technique and poise would find much better ways to spend £10m+. I'd say a valuation of £8m might get a bidding war between Steve Bruce and Harry Redknapp going, but their chairmen would rein them in at £10m.

Rose would suffer similarly. Sunderland might want him back, but nobody is going to pay £10m for a brain dead left back.

Bentaleb, for the sheer fact that he's an athlete with a touch, and therefore has genuine potential, would be worth more than those two put together.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I would say they are pretty ok actually.

Lloris seems cheap because GKs are always cheap. Soldado/Paulinho/Lamela will have greater value in the S Europe/S American markets etc.

The ones that possibly need adjusting are Ade and Kaboul in respect of their short contracts, and Mason/Bentaleb/Kane because these values are probably from the start of the season, rather than reflecting their progress in the past 6 months.

Lloris was signed for around £12m I believe, and De Gea was signed for £17m so Lloris would have to go for around £20m at least, De Gea would go for far more too.

Kane would go for around £15m at least, Connor Wickham cost £15m!

Chadli's value has increased from the £7m we signed him for.

Eriksen would be around £25m.

Paulinho has lost value, around £10m he is worth now I would say.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You don't think either has much potential then?

I predict if Bentaleb was available for 12m there'd be a queue of clubs wanting to sign him a mile long

I don't think either has done enough to show they are worth £12m. Mason has played how many games now? 10 in the league?

 

[harr1984]

I don't think either has done enough to show they are worth £12m. Mason has played how many games now? 10 in the league?

Like I said, with young players you pay more than their current value because you want to sign them before they fulfill their talent so a) bigger clubs dont get them, which they will once they fulfill their potential b) sell on at a profit if they have reached the potential the club have anticipated

Ross Barkley wouldn't of been worth that much after playing 10 league games for example, but big clubs would have happily paid a lot more for him because of how good he is going to become...

 

[Spur of the moment]

Like I said, with young players you pay more than their current value because you want to sign them before they fulfill their talent so a) bigger clubs dont get them, which they will once they fulfill their potential b) sell on at a profit if they have reached the potential the club have anticipated

Ross Barkley wouldn't of been worth that much after playing 10 league games for example, but big clubs would have happily paid a lot more for him because of how good he is going to become...

Tottenham complete Bale transfer

Bale has one year left on his deal at Southampton Tottenham have completed the signing of Southampton's teenage Welsh international defender Gareth Bale.Southampton said Spurs will make an immediate payment of £5m, with further additional payments that could see the transfer fee rise to £10m.

We ended up paying £7m because Southampton were desperate for the cash at the time, but a healthy profit of £79m having extracted two brilliant seasons out of him (following a couple of indifferent ) says it all.

 

[harr1984]

Tottenham complete Bale transfer

Bale has one year left on his deal at Southampton Tottenham have completed the signing of Southampton's teenage Welsh international defender Gareth Bale.Southampton said Spurs will make an immediate payment of £5m, with further additional payments that could see the transfer fee rise to £10m.

We ended up paying £7m because Southampton were desperate for the cash at the time, but a healthy profit of £79m having extracted two brilliant seasons out of him (following a couple of indifferent ) says it all.

Indeed, purchasing young players is all about speculating what their potential and future value is....

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I have read this a few times and can't figure out what you are saying. Surely academy players have no real book value (if that is what you meant) and the only measure is what they might be sold for.

Explain to me how you value Townsend at 2 million, for example?

Edit. OK I think I get your gist. This is all you (as DL) would pay for these players. Is that it?

Simple, he is ****!

 

[Rorschach]

Simple, he is ****!

Right. Well thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Right. Well thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

Okay, I will be more expansive. Managers want to sign players who have a real impact, not players like Townsend, who has all the tricks but who has little influence on results. To me he is a player who excites fans, but not managers. Yes, if we transfer listed him, there would be takers, but only from the bottom tier of the EPL. These clubs do not have 10, 12 million to spend on a winger. much less one as ineffectual as Townsend.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I would say they are pretty ok actually.

Lloris seems cheap because GKs are always cheap. Soldado/Paulinho/Lamela will have greater value in the S Europe/S American markets etc.

The ones that possibly need adjusting are Ade and Kaboul in respect of their short contracts, and Mason/Bentaleb/Kane because these values are probably from the start of the season, rather than reflecting their progress in the past 6 months.

GB - we can hardly even give Soldado away let alone get £15.8 million for him. The top clubs in the European leagues wouldn't want him and the other continental clubs couldn't pay his wages. I guess there might be a relegation battler prepared to gamble £8 million or so for him to come and score the goals to keep them up but I think his wages would put them off (especially as they'd be worried about having to continue paying them if the gamble didn't come off and they were relegated).

I think it is the same with Paulinho too. Of course there are clubs in Brazil that will want him but they cannot pay the fees or wages so transfer fee would be minimal.

Lamela - I agree, I think top Italian or even Spanish clubs might be interested in him based on his success at Roma, although I doubt anyone would be prepared to pay any more than about £15 million for him currently.

My valuations on our youngsters (I have tried to compare them to players of similar age playing in the same position):

Rose - £7 million (based on reports of the fee that Chelsea want for Bertrand).
Mason - £7.5 million (based on reports of what Villa will pay Man Utd for Tom Cleverly)
Kane - £18+ million (based on reports of what West Brom would demand for Berahino)
Bentaleb - £12 million (this one is hard to call.... there isn't really a player of similar age playing in the same position who has come through his club's youth academy. Having said £12 million there though I don't think we would sell him if that sort of offer came in. It is extremely rare for a player of Bentaleb's age to be able to play to the level that he has in such a difficult position. His ceiling is very high indeed and even if he doesn't develop further I think he'll not be worth any less than £12 million over the next 3 or 4 years.

 

[Finney Is Back]

:lol:

He'll never be good enough to play for Real Madrid. He's a decent squad player but, come on...Real Madrid?!

Then again, last season, I thought that Kane was rubbish that was before his run at the end of the season & his performances this season. Maybe the same will happen with Bentaleb.

I think many people forget how young Bentaleb is. He came into our first team at only 18 years of age. It was a similar story with Kane too. Many fans wrote him off as opposed to considering how much developing he still had to do. The fact that Bentaleb was able to hold his own (and more than just hold his own in some cases) in such a difficult position at such a young age shows that he has a huge upside. If you consider that Namanja Matic is 4 years older than Bentaleb and how much developing he has done in those same 4 years then you get an idea of the player Bentaleb could (and I think should) become.

 

[milo]

Okay, I will be more expansive. Managers want to sign players who have a real impact, not players like Townsend, who has all the tricks but who has little influence on results. To me he is a player who excites fans, but not managers. Yes, if we transfer listed him, there would be takers, but only from the bottom tier of the EPL. These clubs do not have 10, 12 million to spend on a winger. much less one as ineffectual as Townsend.

I think that there would be a lot more interest in Townsend than you think and his price would reflect this.

Southampton made a bid for him in the summer and they are one of the more astute clubs in the transfer market in the Premier League.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I think that there would be a lot more interest in Townsend than you think and his price would reflect this.

Southampton made a bid for him in the summer and they are one of the more astute clubs in the transfer market in the Premier League.

Maybe football management isn't as enlightened as we imagine then. Paying more than 2 million for Townsend could only come from a manager who sees it as Monopoly money. I doubt they would pay that much if they had scouted his performances over the last few months.

 

[harr1984]

Maybe football management isn't as enlightened as we imagine then. Paying more than 2 million for Townsend could only come from a manager who sees it as Monopoly money. I doubt they would pay that much if they had scouted his performances over the last few months.

Its not as simple as that, different teams have different types of needs and skillsets - Koeman could easily see some of Townsend's attributes and think they would suit Saints' style of play, and be confident he could coach and mould him into a player for his team.

There are countless players who havent performed at a club then have done elsewhere. Townsend has shown when he isnt being selfish and simply shooting on sight he can be an effective and dangerous player....

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Rose - £8m

Bentaleb - £20m

Mason - £14m

Kane - £25m (or twice whatever Berahino is valued at)

Townsend - £14m

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!

Oh boy people in here are hilarious. If we were selling here's what I think we'd get

Rose - 6m
Bentaleb - 8m
mason - 3m
Kane - 12m
Townsend - 8m

 

[frankthetank]

Maybe football management isn't as enlightened as we imagine then. Paying more than 2 million for Townsend could only come from a manager who sees it as Monopoly money. I doubt they would pay that much if they had scouted his performances over the last few months.

This has always been the case though.

There is no other reason to explain why Brendan Rogers spent £15m on Ballotelli - who would never fit into his system, or why David Moyes spent £25m on a battering ram in Fellaini for a team built to pass and move, or indeed almost any of Redknapp's transfer dealings at QPR.

And they're three of the more celebrated managers of the Premiership era. The Moyes one galls me in particular as in the run up to his appointment at United, he was often cited in the media as being a meticulous researcher and scout of players.

One of the biggest problems with the transfer system is that it means managers often behave like supporters, and always imagine there is a quick fix "if only we could get that left back who popped in a few on MOTD". If they spent this time coaching players instead, they'd be much better off.

Personally I reckon Mourinho has shown himself to be a cut above this nonsense. He has a preferred style of play, and he buys players that fit his style. They're bought to play in a particular position, and he doesn't spend big money on half chances. As a result, his teams always have a natural balance to them. It's also quite curious that the spine of his team plays every game when they're fit. Squad rotation is overrated.

 

[milo]

Maybe football management isn't as enlightened as we imagine then. Paying more than 2 million for Townsend could only come from a manager who sees it as Monopoly money. I doubt they would pay that much if they had scouted his performances over the last few months.

We know that Southampton do not just sign players on the manager's nod though and that they scout very thoroughly.

 

[SoundAndVision]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!

Oh boy people in here are hilarious. If we were selling here's what I think we'd get

Rose - 6m
Bentaleb - 8m
mason - 3m
Kane - 12m
Townsend - 8m

I find your figures hilarious, especially the fact you think we would only get 4m more for Kane than townsend.Shane long went to southampton for 12 million and you think Kane is worth the same? :lol:
Also the fact you think Townsend is worth over double what mason is worth.