Vincent Janssen

[ringo]

Working hard in training and "showing much" are, it seems, two different things. One can be quantitatively measured. The other is partly a qualitative assessment. Janssen certainly made an effort in the Dutch league -so I'd be surprised if it was physical effort or application. More likely Poch doesn't fancy the look of him in training.

As I posted in the Fulham match thread my concern is whether training is necessarily a good proxy for match day. And whether performance in training is a reliable indicator of performance on matchday for all players.
I would argue that, for some players at least, it is not. In the same way that some players do well on loan spells and others don't, but that does not necessarily equate to their potential to play for the first team.

I'd be interested to know how players like NDKD, Sissoko, Wimmer and Onomah perform in training.

with Janssen I suspect a regular run of games, being able to play in his best position, in his favoured formation, confidence and familiarity with the Premiership are all important performance factors.

 

[Robspur12]

Ive said it before but he is not dissimilar to Batshuayi

Roughly same age, same height and build

Both have had one scene season in a relatively poor league and transferred for big money

The difference is that Batshuayi is in his 7th season as a pro and cost almost double what Jansenn did.

I disagree with your analogy. Batshuayi and Janssen are both struggling to cement first team football currently but it could be for entirely different reasons. Batshuayi is likely to have a higher ceiling than Janssen. For a start Batshuayi makes the Belgian National team boasting the likes of Lukaku, Hazard, Benteke and Carasco.

 

[Robspur12]

Which todays prices and his age in mind, he was cheap.

Not if he fails.

 

[Olle73]

Not if he fails.

Mostly, you need to pay before you buy, not after you have seen how it works out.

 

[Robspur12]

I agree with this. Not sure how going public helps anything.

I really don't see a problem. Janssen was a relatively high profile buy. If he is not playing, journalists will ask questions. Rather than lie Poch says Janssen needs to show more. It's not like he has called him a lazy cnut.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I disagree with your analogy. Batshuayi and Janssen are both struggling to cement first team football currently but it could be for entirely different reasons. Batshuayi is likely to have a higher ceiling than Janssen. For a start Batshuayi makes the Belgian National team boasting the likes of Lukaku, Hazard, Benteke and Carasco.

Well Janssen makes the Dutch National team boasting the likes of Dembele, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Eriksen.

 

[Robspur12]

Mostly, you need to pay before you buy, not after you have seen how it works out.

Yes I realize that thanks. Still an expensive risk though for an inexperienced player. Lukaku and Slimani cost just 11 million more, Gabbiadini cost Southampton in the region of £15 million, Son cost £22 million, then there is Moussa Dembele at Celtic who we could have got for a few million last January.

 

[Rorschach]

I really don't see a problem. Janssen was a relatively high profile buy. If he is not playing, journalists will ask questions. Rather than lie Poch says Janssen needs to show more. It's not like he has called him a lazy cnut.

I guess it isn't the worst criticism he could have doled out but it is till is a public rebuke nonetheless. I'm not a fan of that sort of thing.

 

[mudshark]

Our Fulham supporting friend meant to get us tickets for today's game in the mixed zone, however somehow manged to completely balls it up and got us tickets with the home fans in the opposite corner instead.
We were sat very close to where the subs were warming up and towards the end Poch calls for Janssen who eagerly turns around, Poch then asks him to get Onomah (who was further down the touchline) as he was the one going on. Awkward... felt for the guy, despite it being quite amusing!

Ha! That's cold.

Vince! Vince!

... Get us a coffee, will you?

 

[Rorschach]

Ha! That's cold.

Vince! Vince!

... Get us a coffee, will you?

"Vince, where would you've been if I hadn't called you"

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I disagree with your analogy. Batshuayi and Janssen are both struggling to cement first team football currently but it could be for entirely different reasons. Batshuayi is likely to have a higher ceiling than Janssen. For a start Batshuayi makes the Belgian National team boasting the likes of Lukaku, Hazard, Benteke and Carasco.

Yet has only scored 1 goal in 9 games at international level in a much better side than Holland

And yeah he does have some games for them but let's be honest they have some really flaky strikers in lukaku and Benteke... both very streaky players

 

[Olle73]

Yes I realize that thanks. Still an expensive risk though for an inexperienced player. Lukaku and Slimani cost just 11 million more, Gabbiadini cost Southampton in the region of £15 million, Son cost £22 million, then there is Moussa Dembele at Celtic who we could have got for a few million last January.

I just responded to a previous post. If someone is "shocked" over the fact that we payed that amount of money for a young striker that last season just banged them in for fun in a league that throughout the years have produced some of the finest strikers that the world have seen, well then this "someone" should consider doing something else instead of following the world of professional fotball.

I don't bother with comparing with players that are not here, becasue no one knows if any of those player have been able to outperfom Vincent in the Spurs shirt when Poch is in charge.

 

[Robspur12]

Yet has only scored 1 goal in 9 games at international level in a much better side than Holland

And yeah he does have some games for them but let's be honest they have some really flaky strikers in lukaku and Benteke... both very streaky players

Mate you can't keep dismissing points because they don't fit the argument. Flaky or not you are talking about top forwards -benteke aside maybe. Pointless persisting with this comparison between Batshuayi and Janssen because although they may have started the same number of games it may be for entirely different reasons. For a start Chelsea are a brick club where good young players such as Lukaku and De Bruyne have failed to command regular starts. Plus critically Batshauyi scores from open play while Janssen has not been able to so far.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate you can't keep dismissing points because they don't fit the argument. Flaky or not you are talking about top forwards -benteke aside maybe. Pointless persisting with this comparison between Batshuayi and Janssen because although they may have started the same number of games it may be for entirely different reasons. For a start Chelsea are a brick club where good young players such as Lukaku and De Bruyne have failed to command regular starts. Plus critically Batshauyi scores from open play while Janssen has not been able to so far.

Batshuati has scored just the 1 Premier League goal in 16 appearances. While it is true that that single goal was indeed from open play, I'm not sure that you can really use just a single goal to enhance your argument? At the moment one would probably have to say that both players have failed equally. Luckily for us though Janssen cost just over about half Batshuayi's fee and under half of his wages.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Mate you can't keep dismissing points because they don't fit the argument. Flaky or not you are talking about top forwards -benteke aside maybe. Pointless persisting with this comparison between Batshuayi and Janssen because although they may have started the same number of games it may be for entirely different reasons. For a start Chelsea are a brick club where good young players such as Lukaku and De Bruyne have failed to command regular starts. Plus critically Batshauyi scores from open play while Janssen has not been able to so far.

Im comparing strikers in a similar circumstance at top clubs

Benteke, Lukaku and Batshuati all have cost over £30M in fact they have all cost almost double Jansenns fee

Batshuati is a direct comparison though as he is clearly second choice for his club and is suffering the same issues I believe (lack of games, adapting to a new league, a new system, higher expectations etc..). yet plenty of us wanted him before he took the £££

He has scored 1 league goal from open play yet I dont hear people kicking and screaming at his failings as their top.

In fact, let me throw in another comparison.. Daniel Sturrridge, the greatest striker ever produced in his own mind. 11 premier league games, 1 goal this season. Id argue he is suffering in a new set up too and he can't argue adapting to the league or experience

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I just responded to a previous post. If someone is "shocked" over the fact that we payed that amount of money for a young striker that last season just banged them in for fun in a league that throughout the years have produced some of the finest strikers that the world have seen, well then this "someone" should consider doing something else instead of following the world of professional fotball.

I don't bother with comparing with players that are not here, becasue no one knows if any of those player have been able to outperfom Vincent in the Spurs shirt when Poch is in charge.

We just paid 17 million quid for a player who has ONE year of experience in top flight football. Top flight is being kind to Dutch football these days, as the standard is very weak compared to days gone by. For some context, don't forget we paid 5 million for Alli. That's what happens when clubs apply due diligence. Still, there are worse buys, Sissoko for one, at 30 million. Glad you're not holding the club's purse strings.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

I hate the fact that we paid Alli for 5mil - It was a fluke, it cant be used as a comparison to bash any other signing we make. He could have quite as easily gone the same way as Holtby.

Seems in the eyes of many we cant win.

Just get in re-enforcements at any cost if poch wants him.. Sissoko arrives for 30mil (Allegedly)
If the player we had brought in on the last day had been Alli for 5 mil everyone would have gone mental.

I think sissoko has been average and Janssen poor, if they had cost £1 or 100mil i would have thought the same.

I also think Sissoko cost nowhere near 30mil.. I think that seems like a Ashley and Levy mutual agreement thing, with ridiculous add-ons

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Well Janssen makes the Dutch National team boasting the likes of Dembele, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Eriksen.

I'd love to know if fans from other teams see these type of posts when having a sly lurk, and pastes them onto their own message board, ripping the tinkle and missing the longstanding banter.

 

[Robspur12]

Batshuati has scored just the 1 Premier League goal in 16 appearances. While it is true that that single goal was indeed from open play, I'm not sure that you can really use just a single goal to enhance your argument? At the moment one would probably have to say that both players have failed equally. Luckily for us though Janssen cost just over about half Batshuayi's fee and under half of his wages.

@Finney Is Back and @Bedfordspurs
I did a comparison of all games played by the 2 of them in a previous post which included cup games and although there are not many games as a sample Batshuayi has scored a few more goals than Janssen-and importantly all from open play.

I maintain that comparing anyone to a Chelsea player when trying to judge whether they would have been better elsewhere is flawed. They have chewed up and spat out several players especially youngsters who have gone on to do very well at other clubs. Not quite so true of Spurs under Poch.

I like Janssen and would love him to succeed unfortunately I don't think he was ready for the massive jump in quality from the Erevidisie to PL and it was a massive risk given the fee. It doesn't really look good for his future given his manager's lack of trust in terms of recent game time.

 

[Benny_Lad]

2 points.

1. VJ is training with one of the best teams in the country. When Poch says he wants to see more, I suspect its just a case that VJ doesn't quite look at the same level as the other players. I mean can you imagine VJ vs Rose? or VJ vs Dembele? I think he probably comes out 2nd best in most training scenarios so Poch simply thinks he hasn't met the grade yet. Compare that to Dele last season and it was probably evident from session one that he had the tools. Hence was fast tracked to the team.

2. People need to get over this "we bought a player with one season behind him". That's exactly when clubs like us need to strike. You are never going to find a diamond in the rough by letting someone perform for 3 or 4 seasons at a high level. Players will either have already peaked, or be snapped up by one of the super clubs. We are Spurs, we have to take the odd gamble in the transfer market. At £17m with a bottom re-sale of probably £7-10m its a fairly economical gamble. One that I think hasn't paid off. But lets not all get on the band wagon now and say we jumped the gun with this signing.

Can you imagine if Kane was available for sale after his first good season. Can really see Man U and the like saying - " no thanks, you crack on". The standard of the Dutch league is a different argument, and that's where I think this signing has come unstuck, regardless of games/seasons under belt. For example even if VJ had a 2nd good season in the Dutch league before we stepped in, it's likely that things would still be turning out like this.