Tottenham vs Scum COC OMT

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Been getting a bit of stick from my work and mates for this photo from last night.... haha my mate sent it to me from his twitter account.

 

[Rorschach]

this in a nutshell

I can understand rotating the squad for the cup games, all clubs do it to some extent, but this was a NLD, at home, and Poch got the team selection all wrong. We should have been full strength, no doubts about it.

My sentiments exactly. A win over those arseholes would have been worth playing a few 2nd stringers at the weekend. It's a match we'll likely loose anyway. The point that we played reasonably well is no comfort in the cold light of day, and to watch Flamini score twice against us is even more galling. Moral victory be damned. I wanted to win that match 10 times more than the City one.

 

[alekaras]

Frustrating result, and why pick Fazio?! he's clearly not part of Poch's plans, so why pick him for such a big game?! it's obvious there was no motivation for the game on his part.

And yes it is a big game, a cup game against Ar5ena1 is far more exciting than the boring quest to finish 4th each season.

Yeah, it's boring to finish 4th and play CL the following season. Yawwwn. EL or nothing!

 

[alekaras]

My sentiments exactly. A win over those arseholes would have been worth playing a few 2nd stringers at the weekend. It's a match we'll likely loose anyway. The point that we played reasonably well is no comfort in the cold light of day, and to watch Flamini score twice against us is even more galling. Moral victory be damned. I wanted to win that match 10 times more than the City one.

Imagine if we played a full strength squad, though, and still lost. The confidence would have been down the toilet. Better this way.

 

[Raziel]

Yeah, it's boring to finish 4th and play CL the following season. Yawwwn. EL or nothing!

We have such a small chance of 4th, it makes no sense to risk last nights call just for that.

 

[Rorschach]

Imagine if we played a full strength squad, though, and still lost. The confidence would have been down the toilet. Better this way.

No it's not. We should have given ourselves the best chance possible. Imagine the confidence we would have gained from spanking them.

 

[indianspur]

Imagine if we played a full strength squad, though, and still lost. The confidence would have been down the toilet. Better this way.

 

[alekaras]

So true. It's pathetic when people say. Oh happy to be out the cup. fudge off!!

We don't win trophies where we can afford to fight on more Important fronts. We need to play our strongest team in every cup. The league is where we should rest players. We aren't going to finish top 4 So it's just about winning a trophy

I'm not so sure about not finishing top 4 anymore. In the beginning I right it was still two seasons away, but seeing how the team had played in their first 6 PL matches, I think it's attainable. So given that, focusing on top 4 should be a priority. I mean, if you want to keep your best players, will they stay because you won the [insert sponsor name] cup, or because you're playing CL next season?

 

[Raziel]

I'm not so sure about not finishing top 4 anymore. In the beginning I right it was still two seasons away, but seeing how the team had played in their first 6 PL matches, I think it's attainable. So given that, focusing on top 4 should be a priority. I mean, if you want to keep your best players, will they stay because you won the [insert sponsor name] cup, or because you're playing CL next season?

Players want money first, trophies second, CL third. (They will fudging say anything they want, but that's the truth for the majority)

Re how the team played the first 6 matches, if you mean 2W, 3D, 1L (and likely to be 2L by week-end) is hardly anything near 4th form, it's not even 6th form.

 

[alekaras]

Great, I'll hold Poch to that. If he plays a weakened team just once more....heaven have mercy on the man, because I f*cking won't.

I want to see a full strength side in every game from now on, since Poch evidently thought highly enough of our chances to win them all to play a weakened side in a f*cking NLD. Even against FK f*cking Qarabag in Azerbaijan.

Now that he's been relieved of the awful, awful burden of competing in a cup we could have won, poor man: and of the burden of fielding strong sides against our rivals.

And that's really the right way to manage a football team playing in four competitions. Just play the same 11 in 60+ games. Should do wonders for their fitness and if anyone gets injured there will be oodles of reserves that are match ready to slot right in.

 

[alekaras]

Players want money first, trophies second, CL third. (They will fudgeing say anything they want, but that's the truth for the majority)

Re how the team played the first 6 matches, if you mean 2W, 3D, 1L (and likely to be 2L by week-end) is hardly anything near 4th form, it's not even 6th form.

How team played and what the results were are two different things. We lost and drew matches we should have won. Over the course of a full season, if we keep playing better than our opponents, the results and table position will reflect that. So I don't buy your results argument over just 6 games!

 

[DubaiSpur]

NOT JUST YOUTH but the entire structure and attitude of the club!!! You know, scouts who work with the coaches, weeding out the 70%ers, that sort of thing...and arrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!! Bellend did some good stuff BUT Inglethorpe and McDermott are the key men. Why haven't you mentioned them????

Because they aren't former managers of the club. Your point was that Poch had done more of this sort of backyard work than all of his recent predecessors - Tim Sherwood was one of those predecessors, so I thought it fair to bring him up considering that he did some good work as well.

Secondly, great, let's call me myopic and be done with this back and forth. Who are 'they'? Are 'they' a specific 'group' or lobby'? What is 'their' criteria? Honestly, I sometimes think 'they deserve' a good cheeky chappie who tells people to run baht a bit. As for point number (2) above, you know the potential answer, it's been laid out many times in this thread so why ask again mate? OK, I'm out mate...

Myopic isn't a name-call, mate, it's a statement of a fact (as far as I can see it, anyway) when it comes to your perception of the League Cup. It wasn't meant to snark or anything. Also, 'they' are the people who are angry about this defeat. 'They' have no lobby, and aren't a specific 'group'. 'They' are just honestly angry people. And 'they' probably won't care for whether someone is an analytical, 'intellectual' type like Poch or a more down-to-earth ''run 'baht a bit' manager, as long as they treat games like this the way they're meant to be treated. As or number 2, no, I don't see an answer in this thread that really satisfies me: why did he rest players against our arch-rivals in a cup we could have won? Because he wanted to put out a stronger side against City? In that case, his priorities are way, way off. Because he thought Wenger would reciprocate? In that case, he's a bit foolish because Wenger's second eleven will beat our second eleven in instances like these on a fairly regular basis. So why play the likes of Vorm and Fazio?

 

[alekaras]

It can't be seen as shortsighted until the end of the season.
Getting knocked out early last didn't really hurt Man U last season , or Liverpool the year before.
If we now go on and claim top 5, QF of EL or final of FA cup will this be seen as shortsighted?
It seems to me the moaners are thinking more about bragging rites or lose of face than long term gain.

This. I'd rather we lose to the scum every time and won the PL. That's a much better "in your face" than beating then every time and finishing 17th.

 

[DubaiSpur]

And that's really the right way to manage a football team playing in four competitions. Just play the same 11 in 60+ games. Should do wonders for their fitness and if anyone gets injured there will be oodles of reserves that are match ready to slot right in.

Oh, we won't have 60+ games this season, because Poch decided that the terrible burden of competing in a cup we could have won isn't the thing for him, poor man: and so, he threw this game.

So, logically, if he wants a strong team for the rest of the competitions and sacrificed this one to achieve that aim, fine. Let him play this strong side. If he still benches first-teamers again citing other commitments...well, now that just starts to look like he made a bad f*cking decision yesterday, doesn't it?

 

[alekaras]

We could have won this trophy, for one. That's one trophy we won't be f*cking seeing: and it's the only one we've had any modern success in. I was a toddler when we last won anything other than the League Cup, for Christ's sake.

For another, he put out a weak team against Ar5ena1. Ar5ena1. He put out a stronger side against FK Qarabag. A tractor-factory beetroot-farming team from the former Soviet Union, if I can allow my English team snobbery to get the better of me.

Does he understand what the NLD is about? Does he care? Wenger does. Our man, I'm not entirely sure he knows or cares. And that doesn't impress me one f*cking bit.

Wenger does?? He played an equally weak side. If anything, he played 11 second string players to our 8!

And maybe, just maybe, we have prioritized EL and PL over the League Cup. You know, you have to do that sometimes, unless you have 25 world class players. Let's be a little real here and not go bonkers over one result in an insignificant cup.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dubai Poch does get the NLD. If you have any doubts about that then watch last year's one at the lane again. The moment when he high fives Bentaleb after Kane's goal says it all. He is paid though, like any manager and unlike any fan to look past any individual game and consider the so called bigger picture. Just like Wenger. He gets the NLD too but also rotated his squad. That could have gone wrong had Harry Kane's overhead gone in. But no one would have accused him of not caring surely? We cannot afford to get tanked on Sunday AVB style not now and we have several key players injured or just coming back from injury. Now I am not saying that it is acceptable to lose the NLD especially at home, but we have limitations to our squad, players who are already tired, had one less day rest than the scum and failed to adequately strengthen the striker dept in the summer these are all factors in Poch's decisions. He is not a miracle worker. The reality is Arsenalhave a better squad than us at the moment. I am sure he is hurting this morning.

He had better be, mate. And he'd better learn from this error of judgement, trying to match up to Wenger's stronger reserve side with our weaker bunch when we could have blown them away like we did in 2008 - I expect to not see this from the man ever again.

If he's hurting, that's brilliant, and mostly what I want to see. However, learning from his mistakes is also important, and this is a mistake I would like him never to repeat, ever. And it was a mistake - prioritizing not getting blown away by City isn't really feasible when you consider that a) we're not very interested in competing in the league anyway, b) the fans care more about the NLD than they do about a game against City, c) being horrendously beaten by City isn't a new thing for us, and d) the cups are a faster way to glory for us than the PL will ever be.

 

[Raziel]

How team played and what the results were are two different things. We lost and drew matches we should have won. Over the course of a full season, if we keep playing better than our opponents, the results and table position will reflect that. So I don't buy your results argument over just 6 games!

Provided we are actually playing better than our opponents, vs. AVB style false domination where we have lots of possession but never really have the opponent on the rack.

Fact is, we very rarely hammer anyone, that means the we are outplaying opponents is very rarely reflected in score. Hence not sure how you see the results "correcting" themselves over time.

 

[Raziel]

Wenger does?? He played an equally weak side. If anything, he played 11 second string players to our 8!

And maybe, just maybe, we have prioritized EL and PL over the League Cup. You know, you have to do that sometimes, unless you have 25 world class players. Let's be a little real here and not go bonkers over one result in an insignificant cup.

And then you miss the point of almost everyone (who is annoyed at Poch in this thread)

- prioritization/rotation is not the problem
- it's what you prioritize
- And for a lot of Spurs fans, if as a manager of this club, you choose to put a lower priority on a Cup game against the Scum at WHL, you are way off base, and just wrong.

Add the fact (in hindsight) that the game was eminently winnable (honestly, one fudging choice, Lloris in goal would have won that games for us), they won, and fudged up our house (and won't get charged is just rubbing our face in it.

 

[alekaras]

You want everything I want, but I know that's all at least a decade into the future, if not more.

What do I want now? What do you want right now?

I don't expect much, given the much-discussed, sad realities of our ownership and financial structure. But I expect commitment, and I expect that the team give me something to be happy about when I think about Tottenham Hotspur. The latter is being done very nicely with the emergence of Kane and Mason, two local lads done good who make me feel warm inside. And Kane tried his hardest yesterday, in a derby that meant as much to him as it did to us.

Did it mean as much to Poch? When I say I expect commitment, it's very little to ask for, bit I do f*cking mean it. Is Poch committed to the idea of Tottenham Hotspur? Does he know what we stand for? Does he care?

I want a manager as committed to what it means to be a part of this club as the fans are: a substitute for the big name managerial talent or the proven trophy winning resume. If Poch isn't aware, then sod all the great titles and cups, because there's literally no point.

As for what happened to me, Steff...let's just say it was the death of youthful hopefulness and idealism about the game, our club, and a lot more besides...and leave it at that, eh?

I'm pretty sure he is committed to the idea of creating a side that will dominate in seasons to come. That is more important than knowing what we stand for. Because what do we stand for, anyway? No PL titles? A League Cup win here an there? I want to see a side that will be a regular title contender, a regular in the CL, and to hell with what we stand for. And I realize that this is not going to happen overnight. If you think it will, then I'm afraid your sanity and emotional well-being will be severely tested in the next couple of years and maybe more.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I'm pretty sure he is committed to the idea of creating a side that will dominate in seasons to come. That is more important than knowing what we stand for. Because what do we stand for, anyway? No PL titles? A League Cup win here an there? I want to see a side that will be a regular title contender, a regular in the CL, and to hell with what we stand for. And I realize that this is not going to happen overnight. If you think it will, then I'm afraid your sanity and emotional well-being will be severely tested in the next couple of years and maybe more.

I'm not expecting Poch to be here when we actually start competing: we will hopefully start spending whatever money we scrap up from the stadium around 2022, or past it, and Poch being here past his five year contract is unlikely unless he wins something (managers generally don't last that long without winning something or having some tangible achievements to their name).

We won't be 'dominating' anything in the seasons to come: if you expect us to do so after seeing the sort of 50-50 games we've played this season, you'd be scarily misinformed at best.

And in this instance, what we stand for is simply this: we are Tottenham Hotspur, we are a cup side, and our very dearest rivals are Arsenal. When a cup game at home against Arsenal comes around, we give it all, we don't throw the game.

Also, if you share so many of the same wants that I have, why on Earth are you so opposed to us spending more to achieve those aims?!?