Im not sure its about promoting him in place of Sanchez, he is the better player of the two of that there can be no argument? When Toby plays there is much more of a calmness, he deals with things minimum of fuss. With Sanchez he has a mistake in him, I just dont see that with Toby. Sanchez has great potential, but nothing beats the Verts/Toby CB pairing and if we play 4 at the back its a no brainer for me. I wouldnt want us going 3 at the back to accommodate anyone....
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Toby Alderweireld
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I would take a 100% fit Verts and 100% fit Sanchez over 100% fit Verts and 80% fit Alderweireld.
And that really is the conversation.
Alderweireld has been out of the team for MONTHS. One decent game against a relegation threatened team (with a 34 year old striker) in which he had very little to do doesnt convince me he should be starting ahead of Sanchez who has been bloody good all season.
I also think Sanchez pace could be vital against Utd, something Alderweireld showed none of last night.
As I said, if its a back 3 Im happy for Toby to come in, but if its our regular shape I dont think Id be starting him ahead of Sanchez Saturday.
Bear in mind - we started the season with a back 3 and it looked good.
For me Toby looked fit enough - Even though youre right that Brighton werent exactly a massive test I dont see how he would have performed any different 400% fit against Brighton to whatever level he was at? Therefore cant really gauge whether hes fit enough for Utd or not - I guess the only one who knows really is Poch so will be interesting to see what he does.
Why do you think we'd need pace more? Id rather Toby marking Lukaku than Sanchez personally....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Lukaku, Linguard, Martial, Rashford, Young - to name a few that I think Sanchez' pace and strength will match up better with.
And, as you say yourself, we have no way of knowing just how fit/unfit Alderweireld is. We do know, however, players rarely are up to speed after one game in which they basically walked through. And it looked to me like he showed a lack of confidence in his pace by positioning very deep, against a side hardly blessed with pace.
Its common sense to assume he isnt 100%, and in a cup semi final against a top side - I think its common sense to err on the side of caution.
Hence Id play him in a back 3, keep Sanchez pace on the field. But I wouldnt play him if its a back 4, as Id prefer a fully fit (and rested) Sanchez.
Lukaku IMO is more likely to bully Sanchez than Toby. Lingard and Young arent a CBs responsibility and Rashford and Martial dont feature much. The only argument for Toby not playing ahead of Sanchez for me is a fitness one and lets see how Poch feels about his fitness. Youre right, I have no issues if he is cautious but if Poch does determine him fit enough Id expect him to get the nod personally....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
All those players, if on the field, will be bearing down on goal at some point.
If they get in behind Sanchez can catch them, Alderweirld wont.
Id rather Alderweireld had more time under his belt before being considered for a major game. I am very hesitant to rush him back in.
Aside from which, Im very comfortable with Sanchez. I know he has made the odd mistake, but I think broadly he has been excellent and people talk him down too much.
Well lets put it this way I dont ever recall Toby being struggling against ANYONE pacier than him, he knows how to position himself perfectly. So Im not concerned about playing him because the other team has some quick players. Sanchez's pace doesnt always get him out of trouble, and against Utd its likely to be tight so if he makes one of his errors it could be critical. Im more concerned about that than a player being quicker than Toby tbh. You are right about risking him though, but in Poch we know he doesnt rush players back. So this is why Im saying if Poch makes the call he's fit then Im comfortable hes fit enough to play, but if not thats completely understandable....
StephenH
David Ginola
When a players make a decision to move for higher reward to another club as opposed to not getting game time or out favour etc. I do not see any point in investing any first team time and effort other that keeping him fit and ready for sale.
If we play him on Saturday what message does that send out to Sanchez. Who by the way will be here next season and hopefully for some time to come.
If he then is responsible for our defeat on Saturday then I for one am OK with that because he at least wants be here.
When Toby lines up for Liverpool or Arsenal next season I doubt it will good old Toby then. Let's not kid ourselves that the likes of Toby will go abroad as his EPL experience will double his value.
If we play him on Saturday what message does that send out to Sanchez. Who by the way will be here next season and hopefully for some time to come.
If he then is responsible for our defeat on Saturday then I for one am OK with that because he at least wants be here.
When Toby lines up for Liverpool or Arsenal next season I doubt it will good old Toby then. Let's not kid ourselves that the likes of Toby will go abroad as his EPL experience will double his value.
I think Poch has the same outlook as you describe there with regards to investing first team minutes in a player who has decided he is off - and i believe should Alderwiereld start v Man Utd on Saturday it would be a very good indication as to what is going on behind the scenes - if he plays then i would imagine that any move away in the summer is far from a certainty
StephenH
David Ginola
I agree. I have nothing against Toby anymore than Kyle W. But until Toby commits to Spurs. He is outside the tent tinkling in and Davinson is our man!
To me it speaks of a manager who is thinking long term rather than short term - if Alderwiereld is off then there's a long term benefit to having Sanches playing week in week out now so next season he is further intergrated, the short term look would be to play the better player now and forget about next season.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
This is the point I was making to someone the other day. Toby is our best defender on his peak for sure, no arguments from me on that, but Sanchez has been very good and what are we saying to a young loyal defender who is the future? Sorry but you are dropped for someone that wants to leave. Poch is not about that he won't and he has alluded to it being about the club and the team
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
At the risk of dragging up the conversation from the other week, Im yet to see anything of real substance to suggest he is off anyway.
All indicators point to him not playing because he hasnt been fit.
If Poch continues to play him, I agree, it adds even more weight to the idea the whole media angle is BS.
StephenH
David Ginola
My only caveat would what message does it send out to loyal players now and in the future.
Not sure i follow there mate - in the hypothetical scenario of Alderwiereld not playing because he won't commit to the club then i think that sends out a message to players that the club/the team is bigger than the individual, if you won't commit to us we won't commit to you
Alderweireld has been here three seasons, on one contract - i wouldn't consider him a loyal player by any stretch
StephenH
David Ginola
StephenH
David Ginola
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If thats all there really is to it then I remain convinced the reaction on here is, so far, way OTT and really quite ridiculous.
StephenH
David Ginola
no it's not the only thing - its a whimsy, lighten up it's a sunny day
The scenario that Toby plays against United is a back 3, I don't see Poch dropping Sanchez for Toby.
If we play 4 at back, then middle of park will be narrow and united will know how to squeeze us, 3 at back means Trippier +1 could sit higher up without us being exposed all day long.
We know Jose will go for a nullify the opposition strategy, it's up to Poch to see which options allow us the most flexibility to counter it.
p.s. you can bet your house TA will not be sold to the Scum .. you know better