The 'If You Still Need to Purge Yourself Of Ange' Thread

[thfcsteff]

And for balance, also the manager who gave us our worst ever Premier League season.,,I'm sure other managers in those 17 years could have won trophies if they just gave up being competitive in the league.

In which case I wish Conte had done so in our CL season, binned us off at 15th or 16th, and on the CL. Or even the Europa! He had a pop at both didn't he? Or was that Mourinho? Either way (if it was easy to do that is)...p.s. nice to know this thread won't be dying off anytime soon by the looks of it

 

[tommysvr]

And for balance, also the manager who gave us our worst ever Premier League season.,,I'm sure other managers in those 17 years could have won trophies if they just gave up being competitive in the league.

Yeah, you know what is true though? They didn’t win any trophies. I don’t live in the world of “what if”

 

[DeanoAustin]

In which case I wish Conte had done so in our CL season, binned us off at 15th or 16th, and on the CL. Or even the Europa! He had a pop at both didn't he? Or was that Mourinho? Either way (if it was easy to do that is)...p.s. nice to know this thread won't be dying off anytime soon by the looks of it

To be fair to Jose, the strong rumour is that he wanted to bin off the league to focus on the CC final and that was apparently the straw that broke the camels back with Levy.

Agree with @SissokoWasGood (BoL), Ange isn’t my cup of tea but he does deserve more respect than he gets.

 

[Robspur12]

Yeah, you know what is true though? They didn’t win any trophies. I don’t live in the world of “what if”

And luckily for you, you don't need to turn up for matches week in and week out to see your team not just lose but not even look like they are prepared. Season tickets are not cheap. That was utterly disrespectful and rightly cost him his job.

 

[Robspur12]

In which case I wish Conte had done so in our CL season, binned us off at 15th or 16th, and on the CL. Or even the Europa! He had a pop at both didn't he? Or was that Mourinho? Either way (if it was easy to do that is)...p.s. nice to know this thread won't be dying off anytime soon by the looks of it

All good Steff, as I said before I don't bear him any Ill will now he's left.

 

[Robspur12]

He’s been tasked with turning a reactive team into a proactive team without a pre season and with the games coming thick and fast. And in most of his games with Forest he’s been unlucky not to win, with strong underlying numbers. It’s not really a point that you can get through in this algorithmic world where banter and ‘takes’ drive the media and punditry, but there’s an ocean of space between making that point, and ridiculing him for being way out of his depth, which he just isn’t.

I mean, he chooses to turn a reactive team into a proactive team without a pre season, rather than being more pragmatic.
But I agree with your overall sentiment as some posters go over the top when posting about him (for and against btw) but most are fairly balanced in their view of him.

 

[Muttley]

I am completely fine with someone having the opinion of Ange not being good enough for our club. I might disagree, but I’m fine with it.

What really irks me though is comments like ‘the George Weah’s cousin of managers’. Yes it’s a joke, but the implication is that he is so bad that not only is he not our level, but that he is actually out of place at the professional level.

And maybe you could say that about someone like Terry Connor at Wolves for example. Someone who was so completely of of their depth, that they acknowledged it themselves, and were never a manager afterwards. But a guy that has won trophies at every single club he has been at, including ours, the most trophy repellent big club of the last 15 years?

It’s just so disrespectful and it boggles the mind. There’s probably a fair debate to be had around whether his particular style would ultimately work when the level of quality in the PL is so high…but again, he won a trophy with us and got us 5th in his first season. I think he’s earned his right to be here. It’s one thing to think his style might be a bit naive to use at all times, but it also feels like with Ange there’s some weird football classism because he is Australian, where it’s fine to ridicule who he is and what he does in a way a way that just doesn’t sit right. Russell Martin gets very similar treatment, but Ange has been way more successful at a higher level than Russell Martin.

So my point is, he deserves to be at this level. He’s been tasked with turning a reactive team into a proactive team without a pre season and with the games coming thick and fast. And in most of his games with Forest he’s been unlucky not to win, with strong underlying numbers. It’s not really a point that you can get through in this algorithmic world where banter and ‘takes’ drive the media and punditry, but there’s an ocean of space between making that point, and ridiculing him for being way out of his depth, which he just isn’t.

That's totally fair. I hope this time around Ange is a little less arrogant with his public persona and the media. As you probably know I was very complimentary about Ange's offensive output, especially losing Kane. I was equally as critical of him for his defensive output especially as we'd gone back to 10 outfield physical players after Kane had gone. Let's be honest we also conceded over 60 goals the season before Ange joined and we did have our luxury forwards not exactly helping the defensive system. Ange should have done a lot better defensively than he did as he had the personnel.

The third and fourth piece for me is his personality. I just didn't appreciate what he was doing to our club brand with his constant preaching and sniping in the pressers. When that pressure built he didn't exactly handle it so well. However, I love a siege mentality and I do think he kept that playing squad together as the 4th area. That was instrumental in winning that trophy. He should be applauded for that.

So my point above about the "full package" is exactly that. There is some good in there but you reap what you sow in the other areas.

There is no need to be rude about him, although if he'd ever talked to me like he talked to some of the journo's he'd have been brought bang to rights. I wouldn't have tolerated his rudeness.

 

[Mikey10]

Injuries?

Not enough time with the players?

Too many away games so far?

Ground too near the River Trent?

Nottingham lies on a ley line that gives out negative energy…?

 

[billyiddo]

Other than GBs Ali Dia post i don't see anything disrespectful since yesterday's game.

 

[Robspur12]

Other than GBs Ali Dia post i don't see anything disrespectful since yesterday's game.

And some of the "disrespectful posts" come from those defending Ange...

 

[tommysvr]

And luckily for you, you don't need to turn up for matches week in and week out to see your team not just lose but not even look like they are prepared. Season tickets are not cheap. That was utterly disrespectful and rightly cost him his job.

I have full sympathy for that. I've made no excuses for the League performance (aside from the injuries) -- it should have been better and he handled it very poorly. But there's also no excuse for the level of disrespect and abuse that he got and still gets on here. The fact that you have people willing him to suffer and fail in his next job says a lot.

I would love for someone to give me a breakdown of the short and long-term negatives of finishing 17th, and how they stack up against the short and long-term positives of winning the Europa League.

 

[tommysvr]

Other than GBs Ali Dia post i don't see anything disrespectful since yesterday's game.

It's an accumulation of all of the brick that's been said about him on here. You're a mod, has anyone done anything about the absolute trash @Jordinho posted on multiple occasions?

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

That's totally fair. I hope this time around Ange is a little less arrogant with his public persona and the media. As you probably know I was very complimentary about Ange's offensive output, especially losing Kane. I was equally as critical of him for his defensive output especially as we'd gone back to 10 outfield physical players after Kane had gone. Let's be honest we also conceded over 60 goals the season before Ange joined and we did have our luxury forwards not exactly helping the defensive system. Ange should have done a lot better defensively than he did as he had the personnel.

The third and fourth piece for me is his personality. I just didn't appreciate what he was doing to our club brand with his constant preaching and sniping in the pressers. When that pressure built he didn't exactly handle it so well. However, I love a siege mentality and I do think he kept that playing squad together as the 4th area. That was instrumental in winning that trophy. He should be applauded for that.

So my point above about the "full package" is exactly that. There is some good in there but you reap what you sow in the other areas.

There is no need to be rude about him, although if he'd ever talked to me like he talked to some of the journo's he'd have been brought bang to rights. I wouldn't have tolerated his rudeness.

All totally fair, I can appreciate that he’s media persona isn’t going to be to everyone’s taste. It’s also something that he clearly isn’t going to change, so opinions will be shifted there anyway.

I think he’s usually fine with journalists when he’s respected, and snippy when they aren’t. But I’m not really here to defend his media persona. I think he just deserves to be spoken about with the same respect any professional manager gets. Especially because he won us a trophy. That’s all.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I mean, he chooses to turn a reactive team into a proactive team without a pre season, rather than being more pragmatic.
But I agree with your overall sentiment as some posters go over the top when posting about him (for and against btw) but most are fairly balanced in their view of him.

I think it’s very likely because that’s what he’s been hired to do. Maranakis will have hired him because of who he is, because he would have felt Nuno’s football had a ceiling and he wanted Ange to help raise theirs. It may not work, but I think that’s the method. You don’t hire Ange because you want adaptability and pragmatism.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's an accumulation of all of the brick that's been said about him on here. You're a mod, has anyone done anything about the absolute trash @Jordinho posted on multiple occasions?

I got involved in staunchly defending him here. You know that. I think given that he is no longer our manager, a little bit of banter with regards to his future endeavors is to be expected.

I also think Brain Of Levy's comment on it all is the standard TBH. A bit of banter? No problem. Another collapse into full-on slagging a la last season? Not so much. In fact, personally? I think everyone should move on from last season. IMO, the only fact which stands that test of time is that he won us the Europa League. And for that he will always be a ledge to me.

The truth of his current tenure at Forest is they should've won at least three of those games, possibly more, and have been battering sides in terms of actual play.

p.s. you made a comment on people here 'willing him to fail in his current job'...I have genuinely not noticed that (perhaps I have not paid enough attention?)....the only thing I've seen are some saying he could get the Marinakis tin-tack before Xmas. Let's face it, given the way that particular person operates it is hardly a personal condemnation of Ange is it? I still cannot fathom why Ange took the job to be honest, beyond some friendship I don't know about?

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think anyone is talking about last season - the talking point is his current situation at Forest

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think anyone is talking about last season - the talking point is his current situation at Forest

This was certainly the impression I got.

 

[glasgowspur]

The whole ange thing sums us up as a club and support.
As mentioned elsewhere in the last day or so, we have a contingent who love to wallow in if not the misery then the sadder side of being tottenham.
Ange won us a trophy, I will always be thankful for that.
The league stank, it was awful and even with the injuries and concentrating on the EL I think we should have been four or five places higher.
I never bought into his personality, but then I never did why BMJ either.
He's gone now, remember him as the man who broke or trophy drought or as the man who led us to our worst PL finish.
Pick your potato and move on.

Why he went to forest I will never understand.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I got involved in staunchly defending him here. You know that. I think given that he is no longer our manager, a little bit of banter with regards to his future endeavors is to be expected.

I also think Brain Of Levy's comment on it all is the standard TBH. A bit of banter? No problem. Another collapse into full-on slagging a la last season? Not so much. In fact, personally? I think everyone should move on from last season. IMO, the only fact which stands that test of time is that he won us the Europa League. And for that he will always be a ledge to me.

The truth of his current tenure at Forest is they should've won at least three of those games, possibly more, and have been battering sides in terms of actual play.

p.s. you made a comment on people here 'willing him to fail in his current job'...I have genuinely not noticed that (perhaps I have not paid enough attention?)....the only thing I've seen are some saying he could get the Marinakis tin-tack before Xmas. Let's face it, given the way that particular person operates it is hardly a personal condemnation of Ange is it? I still cannot fathom why Ange took the job to be honest, beyond some friendship I don't know about?

This is a problem that his critics, me included, will say is a by-product of how he plays the game or wants it played. You can look sensational at times, not get the reward of goals and by doing so, you leave yourself exposed and get sucker punched regularly. The higher the level you go, the more true that becomes because players are more clinical and teams are more ruthless.

He's in a results business and no wins from 6 is pretty damning especially given the ease of those 6 fixtures compared to his next 6.

I have some sympathy for him. He had no pre-season, a lot of fans did not want him and the move from Nuno to him is seismic. However, he took the job under those circumstances and a lot of the same patterns are re-emerging that we saw here. They all point to a fella who is probably slightly out of his depth at this level IMO. That's not to write him off - this is the highest level of the sport and he's done amazingly well to get to this level.

 

[tommysvr]

I got involved in staunchly defending him here. You know that. I think given that he is no longer our manager, a little bit of banter with regards to his future endeavors is to be expected.

I also think Brain Of Levy's comment on it all is the standard TBH. A bit of banter? No problem. Another collapse into full-on slagging a la last season? Not so much. In fact, personally? I think everyone should move on from last season. IMO, the only fact which stands that test of time is that he won us the Europa League. And for that he will always be a ledge to me.

The truth of his current tenure at Forest is they should've won at least three of those games, possibly more, and have been battering sides in terms of actual play.

p.s. you made a comment on people here 'willing him to fail in his current job'...I have genuinely not noticed that (perhaps I have not paid enough attention?)....the only thing I've seen are some saying he could get the Marinakis tin-tack before Xmas. Let's face it, given the way that particular person operates it is hardly a personal condemnation of Ange is it? I still cannot fathom why Ange took the job to be honest, beyond some friendship I don't know about?

Maybe I'm being too sensitive. I guess I should just stay out of this thread because I just see the same names here to dunk on and score points on the manager who won us a European trophy.

Similar to why I stay out of most of the player-specific threads in general. Very rarely makes for good reading.