'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

[machotime]

Ah, I see.

So, an immigrant group who wish to abide by, and agree with the laws and thoughts of the nation that welcomed them in are sectarian now?

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Doesn't exactly help when you're voting for a party which is xenophobic, which for example is hating on Poles who actually are doing work in the greenhouses which no one else wants to do. A party too which has had to too often replace its own members in parliament because of criminal pasts. A party which claims to be tough on crime when it has the highest amount of criminals in its own party!

 

[Kingdawson]

Totally aware.

Was nothing to stop the islamist communities doing something official too though, was there?

One bloke on you tube saying he was disgusted at the actions of fellow Muslims doesn't crack it. Not representative of the wider community.

Funny enough, in the same way one bloke from the EDL is also not representative of the wider community.

Funny , that.

and if they did nobody would give a brick. You would still think what you think, the EDL would still think what they think, and the "islamists" would still think what they think. There will always be warped people from every race, religion, background and no person or group speaks for a whole religion anyway.

It's all becoming a bit like football now. EDL supporters waving Isreali flags when they march, Sikhs condemining attacks, hundreds of Hindu BNP members. Each religion not giving a complete brick about the other but teaming up against a common enemy. 100 years from now there will be new alliances and new enemies.

 

[Crawley]

Doesn't exactly help when you're voting for a party which is xenophobic, which for example is hating on Poles who actually are doing work in the greenhouses which no one else wants to do. A party too which has had to too often replace its own members in parliament because of criminal pasts. A party which claims to be tough on crime when it has the highest amount of criminals in its own party!

Where did I mention party politics here?

You are backtracking because your sectarianism comment holds no water.

I was talking about observing the laws of the land. Not a particular party.

 

[Crawley]

and if they did nobody would give a brick. You would still think what you think, the EDL would still think what they think, and the "islamists" would still think what they think. There will always be warped people from every race, religion, background and no person or group speaks for a whole religion anyway.

It's all becoming a bit like football now. EDL supporters waving Isreali flags when they march, Sikhs condemining attacks, hundreds of Hindu BNP members. Each religion not giving a complete brick about the other but teaming up against a common enemy. 100 years from now there will be new alliances and new enemies.

But, you tried to tell Roy just now that the EDL as a whole are nutters. You mocked when he said "some" are. Is this not the case now?

 

[diego_maradona]

You get that the Sikhs are doing this because historically they have no love for Muslims, i mean you do get that right?

It's true, that our history is littered with stories of battles versus Mughal oppressors. But absolute equality regardless of gender, race,caste or religion, is a cornerstone of Sikhs' beliefs.

So no that's not why they paid such a tribute. Like I said before there has always been a strong connection between the British military and Sikhs.

Also as Roy said plenty of Muslims have absolutely been appalled by the events, and offered condolences to the family of Drummer Rigby

 

[Kingdawson]

But, you tried to tell Roy just now that the EDL as a whole are nutters. You mocked when he said "some" are. Is this not the case now?

well no, not at all Crawley.

EDL is a group full of racist bigots. Same way certain extremist Muslim groups are racist bigots. Roy has the tendancy to be extremely damning to one group yet downplay the extremist views of the other.

 

[Roy1983]

It's in black and white in this thread me condemning both sets of 'extremists' as in Muslim and EDL for all to see

 

[machotime]

Do you not think these relatively young economies wont have the same issues in the future? Once established they themselves will have the issues we see today in the mature economies. As for laughing at us I doubt it because the benefits they could potentially earn here in a week are the equivalent of ten years salary for the vast majority of indians and Chinese.

I know that they would be far less tolerant of those wishing to exploit the generosity of a social welfare system designed for those in extreme hardship to fall back.

Yeah they will have problems but they'll probably also not have governments which spend so much and have so many obligations as here in Europe.

I doubt that they'd want to be a good life on benefits though, even if offered. Far too much pride for that in Indians and Chinese. It's a real loss of face for them.

They for sure won't have open borders as pretty nationalistic societies and it might be an issue with Japan having an ageing population. They will need to do something.

 

[machotime]

Where did I mention party politics here?

You are backtracking because your sectarianism comment holds no water.

I was talking about observing the laws of the land. Not a particular party.

I don't see other immigrant groups like the Chinese voting for such a party.

An enemy of your enemy shouldn't be your friend.

 

[Kingdawson]

It's in black and white in this thread me condemning both sets of 'extremists' as in Muslim and EDL for all to see

but you also clearly stated that it was only 'some' of the EDL that were nut jobs. You seem to be happy condemning the "Islamists" which is fine but you're not as willing to do so regarding the EDL. In fact, some of your posts make it seem as if you're some kind of EDL sympathiser.

 

[Kingdawson]

It's true, that our history is littered with stories of battles versus Mughal oppressors. But absolute equality regardless of gender, race,caste or religion, is a cornerstone of Sikhs' beliefs.

So no that's not why they paid such a tribute. Like I said before there has always been a strong connection between the British military and Sikhs.

Also as Roy said plenty of Muslims have absolutely been appalled by the events, and offered condolences to the family of Drummer Rigby

Fair enough.

 

[AuroRaman]

I would be over the moon if we were able to place flowers outside each place of worship, it would be great if we were able to do so. However the world we live in means that this will not stop anything today or tommorrow, and yet again nothing will be done to stop all that is wrong with society. Nice words, tick a box to say we have condemmed a terrible act, now move on and forget untill the next time. The undercurrent continues, and the failure to round upon this in the Muslim community has led to outrage as they fail to acknowledge the issue, instead claiming they are not true muslims. Easy way out again, pretend there is no issue.

People have continually given you examples about how the community has tried to eradicate extremism, including personal ones. Yet you try to move the goalposts each time. You're very good with stringing words together on this subject but they often lack any substance or are based on any factual evidence.

Has it ever occurred to you that those of us that condemn these acts but are not willing to tow your line are simply asking for peace, love and unity. Sure, it is difficult, but it can be achieved. Desiring peace is not avoiding the issue. Making casual assumptions is part of the problem.

 

[Roy1983]

but you also clearly stated that it was only 'some' of the EDL that were nut jobs. You seem to be happy condemning the "Islamists" which is fine but you're not as willing to do so regarding the EDL. In fact, some of your posts make it seem as if you're some kind of EDL sympathiser.

Again, in black and white, I clearly held my hands up for claiming it was only 'some' of the EDL who were nut jobs without knowing if that were true. Yes I am condemning Muslims who want to kill us yes, yes I am.

 

[AuroRaman]

The only interest I personally have is that centuries of struggle for the right for freedom of speech is not overturned simply to pacify the threat of violence from those who seek to nullify it.

For example, I am a vegetarian, though I accept that many people choose to eat meat and that is their right to do so.

However, I believe the Islamic method of slaughter is barbaric and should be banned in this country.

Here is an example of it: (Do not watch this video if you are squeamish).
[video=youtube;YLRXn3hW_8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLRXn3hW_8Q[/video]

Am I intolerant for wanting Islamic slaughter to be banned, or does "Freedom Of Religious Expression" have precedence over the right of a mere animal not to have a painful death?

I am a vegetarian also. I used to eat meat but turned veggie as a personal choice.

If you think the Islamic way of butchering meat is barbaric, never ever read up or watch videos on how animals are killed for our culinary pressure in the UK. I would hazard a guess that you would never question these methods though.

 

[THFC]

Yeah they will have problems but they'll probably also not have governments which spend so much and have so many obligations as here in Europe.

I doubt that they'd want to be a good life on benefits though, even if offered. Far too much pride for that in Indians and Chinese. It's a real loss of face for them.

They for sure won't have open borders as pretty nationalistic societies and it might be an issue with Japan having an ageing population. They will need to do something.

Quite a sweeping statement there about indians and the chinese with a lack of factual evidence. I have seen it first hand to the contrary that not every indian and chinese person would shun a 'good life on benefits'. At least the loopholes being exploited to bring in 'students' on so called visas are being closed by authorities to assist with this.

 

[Roy1983]

I work in a betting shop (You should all know by now) and the Chinese are by far the customers who spend the longest in bookies by an absolute country mile. Never had a problem with one but whether the ones I've come across don't work or work at night I don't know!!

 

[THFC]

People have continually given you examples about how the community has tried to eradicate extremism, including personal ones. Yet you try to move the goalposts each time. You're very good with stringing words together on this subject but they often lack any substance or are based on any factual evidence.

Has it ever occurred to you that those of us that condemn these acts but are not willing to tow your line are simply asking for peace, love and unity. Sure, it is difficult, but it can be achieved. Desiring peace is not avoiding the issue. Making casual assumptions is part of the problem.

Judging by your assumptions you have psssed judgement with out fully considering what was said. I dont see any substance to any evidence you have plucked from the air. There is no real strategy in place apart from 'leave it to Britain' to sort out judging by your 'its a British problem' comment.

I see no public face to accept there is an issue that needs addressing. All I see is 'oh its the nutjobs' 'nothing to do with us'. If you consider the crowd trouble in football it was looked at and a whole new approach was taken. This cannot happen unless muslims accept there is an issue needing addressing which is specific to Islam.

 

[THFC]

Edit: the 'its a British problem' comment

 

[AuroRaman]

Judging by your assumptions you have psssed judgement with out fully considering what was said. I dont see any substance to any evidence you have plucked from the air. There is no real strategy in place apart from 'leave it to Britain' to sort out judging by your 'its a British problem' comment.

I see no public face to accept there is an issue that needs addressing. All I see is 'oh its the nutjobs' 'nothing to do with us'. If you consider the crowd trouble in football it was looked at and a whole new approach was taken. This cannot happen unless muslims accept there is an issue needing addressing which is specific to Islam.

Plucked from the air? I referred to a documentary I was involved with which sent me to various communities, including visiting mosques.

There are countless statements and videos condemning these acts by Muslim communities globally and information available in the net (find it for yourself) on what is being done to minimise the threat of radicalism.

There is a Muslim on this thread who is correcting you on your uninformed posts!!! What more do you want?? Are you this active with questioning what the Catholic Church is doing about child abuse? Or does that not affect your way of life in the same way Sharia Law has made every moment of every day a living hell for you?

 

[AuroRaman]

Quite a sweeping statement there about indians and the chinese with a lack of factual evidence. I have seen it first hand to the contrary that not every indian and chinese person would shun a 'good life on benefits'. At least the loopholes being exploited to bring in 'students' on so called visas are being closed by authorities to assist with this.

I've passed this on to Roy in a previous thread when benefits have been mentioned. There is a Facebook group called Keep Calm Britain....just the actual facts. It provides sources and information about migrant benefit culture. It will hopefully pleasantly surprise you.