Ryan Mason

[Robspur12]

The league table shows who is the best / worst team in the league, that's literally what it's there for. It's a yearly record of who is the best / worst.

We scored plenty of goals under Conte but the defense was awful this season, like in the last two games. Whether they look scared or not, throwing games on the first 20 minutes and not being competitive is an issue.

It's easy to have a fresh attitude in a meaningless no pressure end to the season, the parameters are finishing 5 - 8th aren't they? Other than completely embarrassing ourselves there's nothing to lose or win.

I seemed to have come in half way through a conversation so sorry if I don't understand your point here. Are you saying Conte was doing well? We lost both corresponding home fixtures. Mason despite only having had 2 games in charge came within a whisker of getting a point in both games. He has made Son look like his old self. He has changed the direction of games by making good use of the full squad. At one point today he had 4 strikers on. Has he changed the defence from the shambles of earlier in the season? No of course not. But at least we are watchable again.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I seemed to have come in half way through a conversation so sorry if I don't understand your point here. Are you saying Conte was doing well? We lost both corresponding home fixtures. Mason despite only having had 2 games in charge came within a whisker of getting a point in both games. He has made Son look like his old self. He has changed the direction of games by making good use of the full squad. At one point today he had 4 strikers on. Has he changed the defence from the shambles of earlier in the season? No of course not. But at least we are watchable again.

Ryan Mason has come within an Eric Dier missed sitter and a VAR official doing their job of taking 6 points from Liverpool and Man Utd
[A totally biased reading of the situation, but I own that and stick to it]

 

[spurspinter1]

I seemed to have come in half way through a conversation so sorry if I don't understand your point here. Are you saying Conte was doing well? We lost both corresponding home fixtures. Mason despite only having had 2 games in charge came within a whisker of getting a point in both games. He has made Son look like his old self. He has changed the direction of games by making good use of the full squad. At one point today he had 4 strikers on. Has he changed the defence from the shambles of earlier in the season? No of course not. But at least we are watchable again.

It's nothing against Mason but we've gone from fourth (with a chance of CL) when Conte left to presumably 7th with Brighton's two games in hand. We could have finished top 4 under Conte and it is now pretty much impossible under the combo of Stellini and Mason. And I truly believe Conte had hoped for more than top four anyways not that it's super relevant.

It's not helpful arguing against a supposed positive vibe around the club, I'm glad we didn't utterly capitulate against Liverpool but we still lost and it's 0 points whether you lose 6-1 or 4-3 because of a horrendous decision to bring on Moura (Mason's decision now there's no senior figures around him to blame).

Whatever happens from here this, the club hasn't done well this season. Trying not to sink in to personal allegiances and without wanting to state the obvious, am hoping for better next season!

Mason having 4 strikers on, like Stellini did during the collapse against Bournemouth isn't particularly meaningful imo.

 

[Raziel]

It's nothing against Mason but we've gone from fourth (with a chance of CL) when Conte left to presumably 7th with Brighton's two games in hand. We could have finished top 4 under Conte and it is now pretty much impossible under the combo of Stellini and Mason. And I truly believe Conte had hoped for more than top four anyways not that it's super relevant.

It's not helpful arguing against a supposed positive vibe around the club, I'm glad we didn't utterly capitulate against Liverpool but we still lost and it's 0 points whether you lose 6-1 or 4-3 because of a horrendous decision to bring on Moura (Mason's decision now there's no senior figures around him to blame).

Whatever happens from here this, the club hasn't done well this season. Trying not to sink in to personal allegiances and without wanting to state the obvious, am hoping for better next season!

Mason having 4 strikers on, like Stellini did during the collapse against Bournemouth isn't particularly meaningful imo.

I think you are being dismissive of what people are highlighting, no one is advocating Mason for the job (not one seriously), but in a week

- He has improved two top level professionals (Son & Perisic) who's games have been horrendous all season
- He's shown some tactical flexibility
- His teams have shown fight

Yes, the same old defensive mistakes are there, but there are flashes of improvements, and credit to him for that.

p.s. Conte is the reason we fell off this cliff.

 

[Robspur12]

It's nothing against Mason but we've gone from fourth (with a chance of CL) when Conte left to presumably 7th with Brighton's two games in hand. We could have finished top 4 under Conte and it is now pretty much impossible under the combo of Stellini and Mason. And I truly believe Conte had hoped for more than top four anyways not that it's super relevant.

It's not helpful arguing against a supposed positive vibe around the club, I'm glad we didn't utterly capitulate against Liverpool but we still lost and it's 0 points whether you lose 6-1 or 4-3 because of a horrendous decision to bring on Moura (Mason's decision now there's no senior figures around him to blame).

Whatever happens from here this, the club hasn't done well this season. Trying not to sink in to personal allegiances and without wanting to state the obvious, am hoping for better next season!

Mason having 4 strikers on, like Stellini did during the collapse against Bournemouth isn't particularly meaningful imo.

Ah so you are arguing we were definitely going to finish 4th under Conte and the decision to put in Stellini then Mason was wrong. I agree with you with regard to Stellini. But if we had remained with Conte would we would have bettered Saudi Sportswashing Machine away, United away and Liverpool away? Well we lost all 3 corresponding home fixtures. We have a pretty dire record against our supposed rivals this season. As for losing to Bournemouth, we have lost and drawn games like that under Conte. So the likelihood is we would have lost those too and would have been overtaken by Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool eventually. What I love to see though is the fight that the players are showing for Mason, a fight that neither Conte nor his stooge Stellini seemed to be able to muster. Seeing Son scoring again too.

We were really unlucky today. It was a brilliant fight back. Moura made a mistake which makes the sub look worse than it was. Thought Mason did a brilliant job today.

 

[Robspur12]

I must say today gave me hope that we can do well in those finals fames. On another day we win that game today.

 

[spurspinter1]

Ah so you are arguing we were definitely going to finish 4th under Conte and the decision to put in Stellini then Mason was wrong. I agree with you with regard to Stellini. But if we had remained with Conte would we would have bettered Saudi Sportswashing Machine away, United away and Liverpool away? Well we lost all 3 corresponding home fixtures. We have a pretty dire record against our supposed rivals this season. As for losing to Bournemouth, we have lost and drawn games like that under Conte. So the likelihood is we would have lost those too and would have been overtaken by Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool eventually. What I love to see though is the fight that the players are showing for Mason, a fight that neither Conte nor his stooge Stellini seemed to be able to muster. Seeing Son scoring again too.

We were really unlucky today. It was a brilliant fight back. Moura made a mistake which makes the sub look worse than it was. Thought Mason did a brilliant job today.

I'm not arguing that "we definitely would have finished 4th" under Conte. I clearly stated that we were in contention for 4th under him, and even that was a severe downgrade of his aspirations for the club alongside Paratici. We are where we are. Purgatory, but if people want to hype up Mason so be it.

The bar should be set a tad higher than "let's all circle jerk if we don't embarrass ourselves". I hope we can sort out an actual plan to put that in to effect sooner rather later so people can stop pretending that Mason has more of an idea about anything than Conte or his predecessors did.

And you brought up the 4 strikers notion being a good thing which was a key part of things fell apart against Bournemouth. No structure.

"Moura made a mistake which makes the sub looks worse than it was" - I'm at a loss on this one, as insincere as it may sound it's not my duty to explain that one...

 

[spurspinter1]

I think you are being dismissive of what people are highlighting, no one is advocating Mason for the job (not one seriously), but in a week

- He has improved two top level professionals (Son & Perisic) who's games have been horrendous all season
- He's shown some tactical flexibility
- His teams have shown fight

Yes, the same old defensive mistakes are there, but there are flashes of improvements, and credit to him for that.

p.s. Conte is the reason we fell off this cliff.

1 point from two games (and it took a monument self destruction from Und for the 1 point). I didn't expect more. All we're doing is ticking off the games hoping not to break new records of capitulation.

Ah Conte ruined Son, right, apart from the golden boot he got last season before suddenly looking like an amateur in all of the footballing basics this season. And Perisic. Now both are the answer.....Mason has unlocked these player's potential with his unseen brilliant tactics of doing the same as Conte did because there isn't enough time to teach them a new season.

Tactical flexibility? Please expand, use as many hyphens / bullet points as you like

And yes there was fight, after we'd gone 3 - 0 down. We firstly threw the fight, then fought for a bit, and then knocked ourselves out by punching ourselves in the chin.

No doubt my musings may sound negative but it's the reality, we don't have the answer or a new direction and we need to hire some people who can instill a new direction. For now, the players are under no pressure because everyone expects them to fall apart and there's nothing to lose, it's their sweet spot.

 

[Robspur12]

I'm not arguing that "we definitely would have finished 4th" under Conte. I clearly stated that we were in contention for 4th under him, and even that was a severe downgrade of his aspirations for the club alongside Paratici. We are where we are. Purgatory, but if people want to hype up Mason so be it.

No one is hyping Mason I think you are being OTT here. I am just glad that the players look like they are responding to him. They were struggling under Conte. I am laughing when I read about Conte's aspirations. What ever his aspirations actually were, the reality was we meekly gave up the cups and even more meekly went out of the Champions League. We were beaten by pretty much all our rivals in the PL except City at home which for some freak reason we always seem to win.

The bar should be set a tad higher than "let's all circle jerk if we don't embarrass ourselves". I hope we can sort out an actual plan to put that in to effect sooner rather later so people can stop pretending that Mason has more of an idea about anything than Conte or his predecessors did.

I think we all want that. But while we lost today, surely we can find some comfort at the way we came back from 3-0 down to pretty much dominate Liverpool on a ground where we are traditionally hopeless. Of course, we need not to be playing catch up but Ryan Mason has had 2 games in charge, not much time on the training pitch but has changed the course of 2 games with positive substitutions. Conte would not have made those changes and I'll say it again his record against his rivals this season was poor.

And you brought up the 4 strikers notion being a good thing which was a key part of things fell apart against Bournemouth. No structure.

Yeah but it almost changed the game today. If not for an unfortunate error from Moura we would be celebrating a point.

"Moura made a mistake which makes the sub looks worse than it was" - I'm at a loss on this one, as insincere as it may sound it's not my duty to explain that one...

I think my comment is self explanatory. Some people don't like Moura I get that but Conte bought him on ahead of Richarlison and Danjuma so nothing to say he wouldn't have been on the pitch if Conte was still here.

 

[Raziel]

1 point from two games (and it took a monument self destruction from Und for the 1 point). I didn't expect more. All we're doing is ticking off the games hoping not to break new records of capitulation.

Ah Conte ruined Son, right, apart from the golden boot he got last season before suddenly looking like an amateur in all of the footballing basics this season. And Perisic. Now both are the answer.....Mason has unlocked these player's potential with his unseen brilliant tactics of doing the same as Conte did because there isn't enough time to teach them a new season.

Tactical flexibility? Please expand, use as many hyphens / bullet points as you like

And yes there was fight, after we'd gone 3 - 0 down. We firstly threw the fight, then fought for a bit, and then knocked ourselves out by punching ourselves in the chin.

No doubt my musings may sound negative but it's the reality, we don't have the answer or a new direction and we need to hire some people who can instill a new direction. For now, the players are under no pressure because everyone expects them to fall apart and there's nothing to lose, it's their sweet spot.

Come on mate, reality is Conte came into a season, left the brick that was working (Son & Kane) pretty much alone and worked on the rest of team and got 4th. The minute he really started putting his mark on the team we got worse.

Son has said he was told not to shoot, not to go wide, not to follow in at the far post (that's Son words, not my speculation), want to take a look at all the goals he's scored since Conte has left and see where/when they happened? hint .. it's exactly the things he was told not to do. Perisic was the best defender on the pitch today (admittedly not high bar), he was also pretty good against United, and his attacking game looks a lot better. This isn't about Mason teaching them anything, he's just not fudging up their game

Mason switched to 4 for a bit in the United game, switched back later, Switched to 5-3-2 today with Sarr, then switch later to throw on the extra attackers, his subs are probably 10-20 minutes earlier than Conte.

Players under no pressure? that 6-1 has put huge pressure on mate, if we had ambled through the back end of season with the odd win, lose against the top sides, no one would have cared (that's no pressure), the 6 changed things. But the last part is correct, we haven't solved anything, we need a new manager, we need a new system, we need to get rid of Dier, Lloris, Lucas plus the loan army.

But I do find it interesting that under Conte we whimpered out of so many games, no fight at all. Fans were like I'd rather see us go for it, lose 4-3, we do, and people's response is "oh, well, your still brick?"

No bullets, just for you ...

 

[Robspur12]

Ah Conte ruined Son, right, apart from the golden boot he got last season before suddenly looking like an amateur in all of the footballing basics this season. And Perisic. Now both are the answer.....Mason has unlocked these player's potential with his unseen brilliant tactics of doing the same as Conte did because there isn't enough time to teach them a new season.

There is no doubt that he has had a negative effect on Son this season. There is also no doubt that since he has gone Son has started scoring again and looking like his old self. The reason I am not sure. But as for last season I can only imagine, that coming in mid season meant Conte didn't have time to fully implement his full system due to the run of games.

 

[spurspinter1]

Come on mate, reality is Conte came into a season, left the brick that was working (Son & Kane) pretty much alone and worked on the rest of team and got 4th. The minute he really started putting his mark on the team we got worse.

Son has said he was told not to shoot, not to go wide, not to follow in at the far post (that's Son words, not my speculation), want to take a look at all the goals he's scored since Conte has left and see where/when they happened? hint .. it's exactly the things he was told not to do. Perisic was the best defender on the pitch today (admittedly not high bar), he was also pretty good against United, and his attacking game looks a lot better. This isn't about Mason teaching them anything, he's just not fudging up their game

Mason switched to 4 for a bit in the United game, switched back later, Switched to 5-3-2 today with Sarr, then switch later to throw on the extra attackers, his subs are probably 10-20 minutes earlier than Conte.

Players under no pressure? that 6-1 has put huge pressure on mate, if we had ambled through the back end of season with the odd win, lose against the top sides, no one would have cared (that's no pressure), the 6 changed things. But the last part is correct, we haven't solved anything, we need a new manager, we need a new system, we need to get rid of Dier, Lloris, Lucas plus the loan army.

But I do find it interesting that under Conte we whimpered out of so many games, no fight at all. Fans were like I'd rather see us go for it, lose 4-3, we do, and people's response is "oh, well, your still brick?"

No bullets, just for you ...

The "we got worse once he made his mark on the team" is an interesting one. I feel pretty strongly that he'll go on to improve other teams and have success there, it just didn't work with our group of players. It's fascinatingly sad as the core looked totally bought in to the way of playing in last season's run in. I just don't think it's as simple as "Conte can't coach players well", not saying that is entirely your argument.

We went to a midfield three today, for sure. It worked for a bit until it didn't. And made subs like Moura, that worked until they didn't.

There is no pressure it's expect for us to fall apart. The players are getting kudos for having fight by not falling apart today despite giving away 3 goals in what, like 15 minutes?

As I said (possibly in another thread), if the bar is set at "let's just not embarrass ourselves" it's a low one and we just need the season to end. Most fans on GG would suggest early subs or a switch to three in midfield, that doesn't make us nor Mason a managerial genius. If people believe that he is unlocking these players potential by continuing our dreadful record against top opposition whilst we have nothing to play for, then so be it.

 

[Raziel]

The "we got worse once he made his mark on the team" is an interesting one. I feel pretty strongly that he'll go on to improve other teams and have success there, it just didn't work with our group of players. It's fascinatingly sad as the core looked totally bought in to the way of playing in last season's run in. I just don't think it's as simple as "Conte can't coach players well", not saying that is entirely your argument.

We went to a midfield three today, for sure. It worked for a bit until it didn't. And made subs like Moura, that worked until they didn't.

There is no pressure it's expect for us to fall apart. The players are getting kudos for having fight by not falling apart today despite giving away 3 goals in what, like 15 minutes?

As I said (possibly in another thread), if the bar is set at "let's just not embarrass ourselves" it's a low one and we just need the season to end. Most fans on GG would suggest early subs or a switch to three in midfield, that doesn't make us nor Mason a managerial genius. If people believe that he is unlocking these players potential by continuing our dreadful record against top opposition whilst we have nothing to play for, then so be it.

Honestly not sure what you are arguing here.

Of course the goal is to finish the season without another Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and a little bonus if you can play some decent football while doing it. The season is a write off, a total fudgeup, as you said, we really do just need it to end.

And yes, people have suggested 3 in midfield for months, somehow Mason actually did it though ..

 

[spurspinter1]

Honestly not sure what you are arguing here.

Of course the goal is to finish the season without another Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and a little bonus if you can play some decent football while doing it. The season is a write off, a total fudgeup, as you said, we really do just need it to end.

And yes, people have suggested 3 in midfield for months, somehow Mason actually did it though ..

Many people suggested a back four throughout the season, I'm guessing they didn't love the results 21 minutes in to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game. We had a midfield three in that game, until one was replaced by Sanchez....

I guess my argument is that things aren't fresh or revitalized, Mason isn't the answer and it's rather sad how there's nothing left to play for and even with that in mind, this team can somehow cripple you emotionally today by bringing a new level of spursyness.

I had looked forward to Richy's first PL goal for ages, and once it happened we managed to throw away a remarkable result / fightback within a minute. The club punishes you for wanting good things, in spectacular fashion.

fudge this club. I love it, but fudge this club. As everyone knows it needs a new direction, some actual hope beyond pretending Ryan fudging Mason is the answer, as if we didn't sell him to Hull for being toss (no proper disrespect to his playing career as he did well to make it as far as he did)

 

[JerusalemMan]

It's nothing against Mason but we've gone from fourth (with a chance of CL) when Conte left to presumably 7th with Brighton's two games in hand. We could have finished top 4 under Conte and it is now pretty much impossible under the combo of Stellini and Mason. And I truly believe Conte had hoped for more than top four anyways not that it's super relevant.

It's not helpful arguing against a supposed positive vibe around the club, I'm glad we didn't utterly capitulate against Liverpool but we still lost and it's 0 points whether you lose 6-1 or 4-3 because of a horrendous decision to bring on Moura (Mason's decision now there's no senior figures around him to blame).

Whatever happens from here this, the club hasn't done well this season. Trying not to sink in to personal allegiances and without wanting to state the obvious, am hoping for better next season!

Mason having 4 strikers on, like Stellini did during the collapse against Bournemouth isn't particularly meaningful imo.

You seem to be...wrong.
And the petulant final sentence in the post above this one further indicates this. Hopefully you'll get out of the funk soon.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Can we skip to the part where he’s made permanent manager already?

 

[metalgear]

Ryan Mason is inexperienced and it shows.
Will be a big mistake to appoint him.

 

[elltrev]

Come on mate, reality is Conte came into a season, left the brick that was working (Son & Kane) pretty much alone and worked on the rest of team and got 4th. The minute he really started putting his mark on the team we got worse.

Son has said he was told not to shoot, not to go wide, not to follow in at the far post (that's Son words, not my speculation), want to take a look at all the goals he's scored since Conte has left and see where/when they happened? hint .. it's exactly the things he was told not to do. Perisic was the best defender on the pitch today (admittedly not high bar), he was also pretty good against United, and his attacking game looks a lot better. This isn't about Mason teaching them anything, he's just not fudging up their game

Mason switched to 4 for a bit in the United game, switched back later, Switched to 5-3-2 today with Sarr, then switch later to throw on the extra attackers, his subs are probably 10-20 minutes earlier than Conte.

Players under no pressure? that 6-1 has put huge pressure on mate, if we had ambled through the back end of season with the odd win, lose against the top sides, no one would have cared (that's no pressure), the 6 changed things. But the last part is correct, we haven't solved anything, we need a new manager, we need a new system, we need to get rid of Dier, Lloris, Lucas plus the loan army.

But I do find it interesting that under Conte we whimpered out of so many games, no fight at all. Fans were like I'd rather see us go for it, lose 4-3, we do, and people's response is "oh, well, your still brick?"

No bullets, just for you ...

You got a link to the Son quotes? I hadn’t seen this.

 

[spurspinter1]

You seem to be...wrong.
And the petulant final sentence in the post above this one further indicates this. Hopefully you'll get out of the funk soon.

Which point was "wrong" in the post you quoted?

And the sentence you describe as petulant is accurate even if it's not entirely helpful / relevant to Mason's coaching skills. Obviously there isn't a link between footballing ability and managerial potential, take Lampard for example or an inverse example like Klopp (less than average player but top manager)...

As l possibly said in the exchanges, there's not much to gain from fighting positivity if people truly feel things are getting better but I am entitled to a rant and by my standards that was pretty reasonable! I'll be out of my funk was we have a proper manager in, and look ready to make a season more than something that just needs to end to save face thanks very much.

If it was Conte managing that game yesterday no doubt he'd be slaughtered for making a match losing sub in Moura, the early collapse, playing back three with a midfield two (appreciating Raziel's point that Mason did eventually change to a three in midfield).

 

[Raziel]

You got a link to the Son quotes? I hadn’t seen this.

It's an on pitch interview with club's reporters, it's the first home game he scored post Conte. I'll see if I can dig it up