Redknapp

[DMac]

For all of your attempted stabs at making your points in the past, by "using facts", your irrational and nonsensical bias and prejudices just crept out into the open. The first 3 words of that quote aren't a riposte - they are a heading for what followed.

My bias actually makes perfect sense - I want Spurs to do well. I don't care about furthering Redknapp's career or sticking up for him despite looming evidence that he isn't good enough. I provided the facts earlier in the thread, which you presumably saw, and as far as I know haven't even addressed or attempted to refute in any way. And you say my biases are nonsensical! Go on then, where did I go astray in that post? Where I said Redknapp can't compete with Ferguson? Where I said we don't practice set pieces? Are those points not true? If not, let us hear your "facts" and reasoning.

Although I expect nothing will be forthcoming, because it seems you are more intent on defending Redknapp through insults than through reasoned discussion. Instead of mocking someone who uses facts to support their opinion, maybe you should try the same.

 

[yiddo2786]

Oh yes, they were 1st. 1STZ!!

:ross: =D>

 

[DMac]

of course i want that, it's just that i think we have to take steps to get there - we can't do it one leap. i think those steps include building on what we have developed over the last 3-4 years.

so you can't see how a manager that has got us CL football once (and would have been twice in three full seasons had it not been for a flukey chelsea win) can do it again? well, there's no debating with that kind of logic so i'll leave it there.

Well if we erase the pointless "would have, should have" disclaimers, then he got us CL once out of 3 attempts. That was BEFORE Emirates Marketing Project became a force capable of winning the league. So now we have, for all intents and purposes, one less spot available.

If you haven't noticed, things don't remain static. Chelsea and Arsenal have already started signing key players for next season. Before, we were relying on them being weak. Now we will most likely have to face them when they are strong. If we couldn't beat them when they were weak, how are we going to do it when they become strong. And we've yet to displace one of Arsenal or Chelsea in the CL spots and it isn't getting easier.

Just to restate the circumstance, to get in the CL next season, we will have to do something that Redknapp has not done for us yet - which is displace one of Arsenal or Chelsea. He couldn't do it when they were at their weakest, they were even in crisis at times this season.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

of course i want that, it's just that i think we have to take steps to get there - we can't do it one leap. i think those steps include building on what we have developed over the last 3-4 years.

Absolutely, we need to build upon the current foundation

so you can't see how a manager that has got us CL football once (and would have been twice in three full seasons had it not been for a flukey chelsea win) can do it again? well, there's no debating with that kind of logic so i'll leave it there.

Comes down to perspective I guess. We have had a solid 3 years without tremendous improvement in that time (IE, a stable set up - obviously those 3 years are improvement on what came before) so the question becomes to take next steps - is Harry the man?

Im more of the opinion that this is "as good as it gets" with Redknapp, this is his limit, but that we could go further with someone else in charge. Someone willing to take Redknapps good work and build a more structured set up upon it.

Naturally if Redknapp stays and next season we finish 3rd and play consistently all year I would be delighted. surprised, but delighted

 

[thfcsteff]

If Redknapp was given half the money Mancini has, we'd walk the title. Mancini's achievements at Inter were down to money and their two main rivals caught cheating. Even now, with more money than they can spend, City just barely finished top.

Di Matteo spent 3 months at Chelsea, in which time he had a poor league record and an amazing amount of luck in the cups.

He had the chance to sign two players for large, large fees the past few windows (specifically Jan 2011) and also didn't pull the trigger on one who was absolutely available and has since moved up to stratospheric pricing...

I'm sitting in the BA lounge @ T5 and literally JUST saw him BTW. There's ITK for you. "Arry's at 'Eathrow! He was on the phone, but to be fair, I still wouldn't have gone up and said anything to him. What is there to say? What is there to ask? What's he going to say? I DID look at all the flights departing and couldn't figure out where he might be going...I cheekily looked for one to the Middle East and did see one leaving for Dubai @ 1pm...but who really knows anymore? I will say that the things I've heard all along aren't seeming any less accurate...but again, whooooooo knows.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well if we erase the pointless "would have, should have" disclaimers, then he got us CL once out of 3 attempts. That was BEFORE Emirates Marketing Project became a force capable of winning the league. So now we have, for all intents and purposes, one less spot available.

If you haven't noticed, things don't remain static. Chelsea and Arsenal have already started signing key players for next season. Before, we were relying on them being weak. Now we will most likely have to face them when they are strong. If we couldn't beat them when they were weak, how are we going to do it when they become strong. And we've yet to displace one of Arsenal or Chelsea in the CL spots and it isn't getting easier.

Just to restate the circumstance, to get in the CL next season, we will have to do something that Redknapp has not done for us yet - which is displace one of Arsenal or Chelsea. He couldn't do it when they were at their weakest, they were even in crisis at times this season.

As you know mate, I agree with you on pretty much everything you say, but I will say he did get us to finish above Chelsea. The single biggest crime of it all though, is how he attempted pre-Munich to convince us that 4th was a great achievement, when in all honesty it was absolutely not, we had the tools for 3rd and more, he simply could not find a way to handle them properly when we needed him to most...

 

[mick cooper]

My bias actually makes perfect sense - I want Spurs to do well. I don't care about furthering Redknapp's career or sticking up for him despite looming evidence that he isn't good enough. I provided the facts earlier in the thread, which you presumably saw, and as far as I know haven't even addressed or attempted to refute in any way. And you say my biases are nonsensical! Go on then, where did I go astray in that post? Where I said Redknapp can't compete with Ferguson? Where I said we don't practice set pieces? Are those points not true? If not, let us hear your "facts" and reasoning.

Although I expect nothing will be forthcoming, because it seems you are more intent on defending Redknapp through insults than through reasoned discussion. Instead of mocking someone who uses facts to support their opinion, maybe you should try the same.

there's a difference between using facts to come to a logical conclusion, and massaging them to support an erroneous opinion. A distinction lost on you.

You just keep going round and round in circles and at the core of it is your assertion that HR is a crap manager, whilst ignoring everything that says he isn't. Now you make statements that money makes no difference to the fact that Mancini is a better manager, which shows the paucity of your argument and the depth of your reasoning.

To be honest you started well in making your point, but since then you have simply showed you are a one trick pony who is stifled by your conviction that you are right, despite any evidence to the contrary.

And I can't be bothered to deal with that mindset. You're just wriggly without the swearing

 

[milo]

If you haven't noticed, things don't remain static. Chelsea and Arsenal have already started signing key players for next season. Before, we were relying on them being weak. Now we will most likely have to face them when they are strong. If we couldn't beat them when they were weak, how are we going to do it when they become strong. And we've yet to displace one of Arsenal or Chelsea in the CL spots and it isn't getting easier.

I think that it is a bit early to say what shape Chelsea and Arsenal are going to be in next season. Arsenal have signed one player, I would doubt that they will spend a whole lot more this summer. Chelsea have been busy but have lost their most important player, have no manager and have a habit of undermining the ones that they do appoint.

 

[DMac]

As you know mate, I agree with you on pretty much everything you say, but I will say he did get us to finish above Chelsea. The single biggest crime of it all though, is how he attempted pre-Munich to convince us that 4th was a great achievement, when in all honesty it was absolutely not, we had the tools for 3rd and more, he simply could not find a way to handle them properly when we needed him to most...

He did, but that meant diddly squat at the end of the day. No one is exactly lighting fireworks because we finished ahead of Chelsea. AVB screwed everything up with his tactics, when they replaced him I looked at their run in and figured they wouldn't get anywhere close to 4th. I actually thought and said at the time that winning the CL was going to be more likely although I didn't think they would do it, but in the end they managed to do what they needed to do.

I should remind everyone, we only had to beat fudging brick on a stick Aston Villa, to make the CL. (We had to beat Fulham on the last day as well but we would have been in 3rd and they had nothing to play for). Chelsea had to beat Barcelona, Bayern, Benfica, and Napoli. We wouldn't have done that in a million years so they deserve it. The key point is that we failed to displace them in the CL yet again. All we had to do was beat Aston Villa...

 

[Leeds Spur]

I'm not complaining about the money, I'm saying Redknapp is a far better manager than Mancini.

You said we'd win the title

 

[DMac]

there's a difference between using facts to come to a logical conclusion, and massaging them to support an erroneous opinion. A distinction lost on you.

You just keep going round and round in circles and at the core of it is your assertion that HR is a crap manager, whilst ignoring everything that says he isn't. Now you make statements that money makes no difference to the fact that Mancini is a better manager, which shows the paucity of your argument and the depth of your reasoning.

If you bother to read my posts, I said on the last page "I'm not saying Redknapp's a bad manager, far from it, but he's not good enough to displace one of these 4 imo, and if that isn't our aim then what's the point?"

Then I never said "money makes no difference," my exact quote was "I wish people would stop complaining about the money, there's nothing we can do about that and it's completely pointless to moan about that." The assertion that Redknapp would "walk the league" with City's money is ridiculously speculative and IMO dead wrong, but I never said "money makes no difference."

So maybe we need to look at your reading comprehension and not my reasoning...

To be honest you started well in making your point, but since then you have simply showed you are a one trick pony who is stifled by your conviction that you are right, despite any evidence to the contrary.

And I can't be bothered to deal with that mindset. You're just wriggly without the swearing

If there is evidence to the contrary, then provide it. I said in my last post to you that I didn't think any evidence would be forthcoming, and it wasn't (read your post). If you want to provide evidence, and read my posts carefully enough to gather the correct meaning from them, I'm happy to discuss it but if you can't do that it's a waste of time.

 

[thfcsteff]

He did, but that meant diddly squat at the end of the day. No one is exactly lighting fireworks because we finished ahead of Chelsea. AVB screwed everything up with his tactics, when they replaced him I looked at their run in and figured they wouldn't get anywhere close to 4th. I actually thought and said at the time that winning the CL was going to be more likely although I didn't think they would do it, but in the end they managed to do what they needed to do.

I should remind everyone, we only had to beat fudging brick on a stick Aston Villa, to make the CL. (We had to beat Fulham on the last day as well but we would have been in 3rd and they had nothing to play for). Chelsea had to beat Barcelona, Bayern, Benfica, and Napoli. We wouldn't have done that in a million years so they deserve it. The key point is that we failed to displace them in the CL yet again. All we had to do was beat Aston Villa...

You have no need to remind me.
I was there.

 

[Jordinho]

You said we'd win the title

I we had swapped manager with Emirates Marketing Project prior to this season, Spurs would not have finished in the top 4.

 

[scaramanga]

he should be given credit for finishing fourth, for crying out loud.. we should all feel disappointed in missing out on third and unluckily missing out on CL, but the very fact that he is receiving such a large amount of flak for a generally fantastic season really is beyond comprehension.

He managed to get 4th in a season where only two other teams performed. How is that a success?

 

[mick cooper]

If you bother to read my posts, I said on the last page "I'm not saying Redknapp's a bad manager, far from it, but he's not good enough to displace one of these 4 imo, and if that isn't our aim then what's the point?"

Then I never said "money makes no difference," my exact quote was "I wish people would stop complaining about the money, there's nothing we can do about that and it's completely pointless to moan about that." The assertion that Redknapp would "walk the league" with City's money is ridiculously speculative and IMO dead wrong, but I never said "money makes no difference."

So maybe we need to look at your reading comprehension and not my reasoning...




If there is evidence to the contrary, then provide it. I said in my last post to you that I didn't think any evidence would be forthcoming, and it wasn't (read your post). If you want to provide evidence, and read my posts carefully enough to gather the correct meaning from them, I'm happy to discuss it but if you can't do that it's a waste of time.

Why should I bother? You are too set in your ways. With some people you just can't tell them anything.

Nice angle with the blaming me for not understanding. Couldn't possibly cross your mind that your whole standpoint is transparent and based on little more than your opinions then? And that you are the one who is struggling to make yourself understood. I can only go by what is put in front of me, and interpret what I see, based on your phraseology.

Also good to see you condemning someone elses speculative thoughts, whilst treating yours as set in concrete. No sign of hypocrisy there, at all.

One thing that you lot seem to miss in all of this (pointless) argument and discussion, is that you are backing nothing but the break up of the structure of the club, and we are on the side of the guy in the chair. And not one thing that any of us says makes a difference.

So you support your club your way, and I'll do it mine. I'm comfortable with my rationale and reasoning, I'll leave you going batbrick and howling at the moon about how right you are. Harry Redknapps still our manager and I'm a happy man.

Good luck with your thoughts and emotions, and self satisfied opinions.

 

[bookhouseboy]

If everything is about money spent - because obviously that's what matters regarding quality - why don't we just make Redknapp the best paid manager in the world; that would certainly make us perform even better.

 

[mick cooper]

If everything is about money spent - because obviously that's what matters regarding quality - why don't we just make Redknapp the best paid manager in the world; that would certainly make us perform even better.

Goddamn, there's been some stupid comments posted in this thread. Even though its some sort of attempt at sardonic humour in there - it rivals anything to date in its towering stupidity.

Never before, in the field of internet conflict, has the point been missed so much, by so few and inflicted on so many.

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

Anybody get this month's Four Four Two... Harry picks his best ever XI... think he deliberately did not pick any of his current players but still... he did pick his own son!

MY PERFECT XI BY HARRY REDKNAPP

David James - "edges Friedel to the No.1 spot"
Glen Johnson - "super lad"
Sol Campbell - "I've worked with Distin, King, Dawson and Kaboul, but I'll give my first spot to Big Sol"
Rio Ferdinand - "such a natural defender"
Stuart Pearce - "a legend"
Paul Merson - "I enjoyed being his manager"
Frank Lampard - "one of the first names on any manager's team-sheet"
Jamie Redknapp - "everybody knows how proud I am"
Joe Cole - "I'd have to find a place for Joe"
Paolo Di Canio - "the main man, for sure"
Kanu - "one of the best in world football"

Subs:
Shaka Hislop - "great"
Sylvain Distin - "did a great job"
Michael Carrick - "supreme talent"
Lassana Diarra - "immense"
Peter Crouch - "has always done a job for me"

 

[scaramanga]

What a surprise to see Campbell in that list.

 

[Jordinho]

Sheringham would be a certain starter. Kanu as impact sub.