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OMT. Tottenham v Rochdale.

Dermot Gallagher claiming all decisions made by VAR last night were the right decisions:
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-on-decisions-in-tottenhams-win-over-rochdale

I just don't get Lamela's goal being called off. Maybe there's a very, very slight tug of the shirt from Llorente on the Rochdale defender, but the Rochdale defender is holding on even tighter on Llorente, so if anything, I'd say we should've had a penalty had Lamela not scored. I'd like to hear the thinking behind disallowing that goal. Incredibly frustrating for what looked like a perfectly good goal.
 
think Poch now has to target a backup for Jan, we don't have a left sided/minded centre half, we could play Davies, but that leaves us short at Left back cover
Dier & Toby, have both played on the left and look like fish out of water when they have the ball
 
SpurMeUp said:
I’m not so sure about that. Judgment, opinion is a crucial part of justice as much so as rules. Often decisions are shades of grey we need interpretation, because some decisions are close calls.

Trippier was fouled outside the box. The defenders arm remained on Trippier shoulder inside the box but wasnt exerting any force inside the box. Still a foul? Technically yes. Morally no. FK was right decision for me.

Lorente shirt pulling while defender does the same. Six of one half a dozen of the other. Technically Llorente committed a foul. Morally it was evens. Goal should have stood.

VAR stops interpretation, and leads to silly decisions where visual queues are everything. For example a ref 5 meters away can tell if Trippier is pushed down in the box, while a camera shows an arm across his shoulder leading to a pen decision.

Use VAR sparingly and it can add to the game. Offsides and a few other things possibly. Let pitch refs make judgement calls on fouls.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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That's an interesting point re offsides....should the players carry on playing when an offside flag is raised so that they can score, just in case VAR overturns the offside call???
 
dawaxman said:
That's an interesting point re offsides....should the players carry on playing when an offside flag is raised so that they can score, just in case VAR overturns the offside call???
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and run the risk of being booked for playing on....... but I agree Daniel, yes, the attacker should play on
 
dawaxman said:
That's an interesting point re offsides....should the players carry on playing when an offside flag is raised so that they can score, just in case VAR overturns the offside call???
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You've arrived at where I've been since Ihenacho's goal (first using VAR). The linesman flagged for offiside but Ihenacho almost immediately put the ball in the net (before the referee had a chance to blow the whistle). Therefore VAR was used to rule the goal onside. What happens if Ihenacho was 20 yards further back and the flag went up? The referee would have blown his whistle and there never would have been an opportunity to score the goal.

So I've surmised that....

1. If you are flagged offside and the ref blows his whistle, but replays prove you were onside, you have been robbed of scoring a perfectly good goal. VAR cant help here.
2. If you are not flagged offside, score a goal, but replays show you were offside, this goal is now taken away.

From the above you can see that through the season you will now have less goals than previous (the Ihenacho goal is quite a unique example of a flag going up but the scorer still having a chance to put the ball in prior to whistle being blown).

This led me to think further, If we have VAR - why do we need a linesman to flag at all? Just continually play on and after each goal, if there is a question for offside, just go back an check it after. That way no one who is actually onside would be wrongly flagged and have the whistle blown before having a chance to score.
 
I've been saying for years that this is at the heart of the reason why there's been so much opposition to use of video tech—and from the refereeing fraternity as much as anywhere, when you'd expect them to be in favour of things that "help them". It threatens to make half the officials redundant when taken to its logical conclusion. I tend to apply Occam's razor to situations where simple incompetence is a possible answer, but I reckon there might be an element here of a public demonstration that perhaps we should be careful what we wish for.
 
Benny_Lad said:
You've arrived at where I've been since Ihenacho's goal (first using VAR). The linesman flagged for offiside but Ihenacho almost immediately put the ball in the net (before the referee had a chance to blow the whistle). Therefore VAR was used to rule the goal onside. What happens if Ihenacho was 20 yards further back and the flag went up? The referee would have blown his whistle and there never would have been an opportunity to score the goal.

So I've surmised that....

1. If you are flagged offside and the ref blows his whistle, but replays prove you were onside, you have been robbed of scoring a perfectly good goal. VAR cant help here.
2. If you are not flagged offside, score a goal, but replays show you were offside, this goal is now taken away.

From the above you can see that through the season you will now have less goals than previous (the Ihenacho goal is quite a unique example of a flag going up but the scorer still having a chance to put the ball in prior to whistle being blown).

This led me to think further, If we have VAR - why do we need a linesman to flag at all? Just continually play on and after each goal, if there is a question for offside, just go back an check it after. That way no one who is actually onside would be wrongly flagged and have the whistle blown before having a chance to score.
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It was harder than explaining Cluedo to my grandchildren
 
The Portugeezer said:
Some of you are being too critical of VAR. Sure it has teething problem - what new system doesn't? It's there to reduce human error and review gaming changing incidents. FA needs to speed it up otherwise it works. Example; if it was not for VAR, the ref would have awarded us a free kick instead of a penalty - clearly Trippier ended being fouled in the box - of course Son fluffed the pen by stopping in the run up before kicking the ball. His fault for not knowing the laws of the game.

All of that is academic of course now that we won the match comfortably.
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I couldn't help but think yesterday Vat Absolute Rubbish. But as frustrated as I was with the VAR implementation in yesterday's match, we have to remember that it is still in it's first trials and not the finished article. So it's normal that there will be issues. If anything, it's having these types of issues that will help with ironing out the kinks so when it does get rolled out it will be as unobtrusive as possible, while helping to get decisions right. If this was happening 3 years into VAR implementation, then all the VAR detractors would have a point.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I’m not so sure about that. Judgment, opinion is a crucial part of justice as much so as rules. Often decisions are shades of grey we need interpretation, because some decisions are close calls.

Trippier was fouled outside the box. The defenders arm remained on Trippier shoulder inside the box but wasnt exerting any force inside the box. Still a foul? Technically yes. Morally no. FK was right decision for me.

Lorente shirt pulling while defender does the same. Six of one half a dozen of the other. Technically Llorente committed a foul. Morally it was evens. Goal should have stood.

VAR stops interpretation, and leads to silly decisions where visual queues are everything. For example a ref 5 meters away can tell if Trippier is pushed down in the box, while a camera shows an arm across his shoulder leading to a pen decision.

Use VAR sparingly and it can add to the game. Offsides and a few other things possibly. Let pitch refs make judgement calls on fouls.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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And I think that is the purpose of the trials. To determine how and when to use it. But if you don't test it out and have the kinds of fudge ups you had yesterday, you will not be able to come up with a decent implementation of it.
 
dawaxman said:
That's an interesting point re offsides....should the players carry on playing when an offside flag is raised so that they can score, just in case VAR overturns the offside call???
Click to expand...
I think with the introduction of VAR the refs will change how they officiate and allow the game to go on and not blow the whistle. If a goal is scored or the ball goes out of play, then it will be reviewed. Of course the question then is how long after the offside should they hold off from stopping play? For example, if the attacking team retains possession and scores after a minute, should that be called back? If the VAR officials can get a decision within 10 seconds of the flag being raised, then they could stop the play, if they determine there was an offside. Or if the offside was blatant, the ref could blow the whistle right away. Interesting nut to crack.
 
Just watched the VAR incidents on the BBC highlights, and can't see too much wrong, apart from Robbie Savage screaming and ranting 'WHAT IS GOING ON!'. Maybe influencing people's opinions?
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Just watched the VAR incidents on the BBC highlights, and can't see too much wrong, apart from Robbie Savage screaming and ranting 'WHAT IS GOING ON!'. Maybe influencing people's opinions?
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I also thought cutting straight to the ref after every goal just added to the frustration for those watching. You immediately think something is wrong.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Just watched the VAR incidents on the BBC highlights, and can't see too much wrong, apart from Robbie Savage screaming and ranting 'WHAT IS GOING ON!'. Maybe influencing people's opinions?
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Watching the game live

- #1 problem, decisions took 2 minutes+ (you couldn't even celebrate goals), it totally fudged up the spectator experience
- Doubt the BBC highlight showed the Lucas penalty call that was turned down (again, how the fudge do you get that wrong? far worse foul than Llorente call)
- The Son call was wrong, there is no rule to support it (and any ref trying to defend it is doing the protect our own flimflam), really, unsportsmanlike behavior?
- The Llorente foul is also wrong, it was instigated by defender, and again does not fall into "obviously wrong decision" category that is the point of VAR.

Honestly its hard to separate what was poor tools vs. just incompetence from both officials.

This will be the issue, if a ref without VAR gets something wrong, we can accept it as human error, however with two officials and replay, you still fudge it up? = not acceptable.
 
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