****OMT****Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham 8pm Friday 5th May

[thfcsteff]

I meant that we achieved better things in the fifty years post 1961 without being able to achieve league success - the UEFA Cups you mention, the FA Cups, all of them. None of those were ultimately able to prove a springboard for sustained league success, or even a single league title since 1961 - but we still celebrate them as significant additions to the history of our club, and the teams that won them as significant contributors to our story. However, to then say that those seasons were unable to break the spell but that this one great season (that will almost surely end trophyless) many years later has *definitely* concluded our tendency to be Spurs-y for all time is just...*really* premature, and isn't fair to teams of our past given that we won actual silverware and had other successful seasons without being able to break that particular curse.

We'll see. I know your views regarding Poch, and I respect them - but I disagree. I give him an awful lot of credit, and he's slowly but surely winning me over to the same extent that he won you over - but I'm not quite ready to go all in and proclaim him our Ferguson or anything like that *just* yet.

I don't really see what you're getting so red in the face over, to be honest. I've stated over in the Poch thread what my position is - the man is indubitably doing amazing things, and he's conclusively earned my trust and whatever time he needs. I've stated here that he *will* do great things. What is so surprising, though, about being hesitant to call him our Sir Alex?

Steff, mate -

View attachment 3273


...there is a lot of weight to that label. Which is why I mean what I say when I state that only someone like *that* can change our history enough to wipe Spurs-y off the face of the earth once and for all. Poch is best-placed to be that man, in time. But he is not that man yet. And no one can feasibly claim him to be, *yet*.

'Spurs-y' is the most pathetic of phrases tome, a relatively 'new' term which someone apparently tried to force into an urban dictionary a few years ago. It is, as I understand it, designed to be an indication of a side that consistently blows it at the last.
Let me be clear about why I support Tottenham Hotspur mate.

"“The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”

I personally consider everything else a bonus. Now, IF you're telling me that 'Spurs-y' has now come to be a side that flirts with the Premiership title two seasons in a row and falls short in the last few games despite never actually having been top during either campaign (with the latter campaign having been a chair manufactured from nothing) then yes. Fine. 'sexy' if you wish. But I won't be using the term. Never have. Never will. So I suppose in order for your theory to hold weight, we have to accept the word 'Spurs-y'...which I won't mate.

All good. You don't have to proclaim him anything. I can tell you that having witnessed Fergie growing during that time with Utd, and seeing what Poch is doing at our club, I am HAPPY to proclaim him as such. The comparisons are bountiful and start off the pitch with the way the club is run.

You then went on to post all of SAF's achievements as 'proof' that Poch wasn't SAF 'yet'. With the greatest of respects, that was a cheap shot. Of course he isn't 'yet' confirmed as such because he doesn't have the history or years under his belt or trophies yet. But I believe we have the modern equivalent.

Here's a fact for you. Fergie joined Man Utd in Nov 1986 and didn't win his first trophy until may 1990. He quickly turned the culture of the club around, but some details still needed addressing. He can probably thank Mark Robbins for buying him a little time, as without that goal at Forest he was apparently facing the sack. Come to think of it, he can thank Lee Martin too!!! When you take a look at Fergie's first few years at Utd, he did fine work but it still wasn't as spectacular as what Poch has done with us in the same time frame.
Let's see what Poch can achieve next season...but I stick fairly behind my belief that he is our Fergie.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...it-really-take-ferguson-three-years-to-get-it

 

[90291Spur]

'Spurs-y' is the most pathetic of phrases tome, a relatively 'new' term which someone apparently tried to force into an urban dictionary a few years ago. It is, as I understand it, designed to be an indication of a side that consistently blows it at the last.
Let me be clear about why I support Tottenham Hotspur mate.

"“The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”

I personally consider everything else a bonus. Now, IF you're telling me that 'Spurs-y' has now come to be a side that flirts with the Premiership title two seasons in a row and falls short in the last few games despite never actually having been top during either campaign (with the latter campaign having been a chair manufactured from nothing) then yes. Fine. 'sexy' if you wish. But I won't be using the term. Never have. Never will. So I suppose in order for your theory to hold weight, we have to accept the word 'Spurs-y'...which I won't mate.

All good. You don't have to proclaim him anything. I can tell you that having witnessed Fergie growing during that time with Utd, and seeing what Poch is doing at our club, I am HAPPY to proclaim him as such. The comparisons are bountiful and start off the pitch with the way the club is run.

You then went on to post all of SAF's achievements as 'proof' that Poch wasn't SAF 'yet'. With the greatest of respects, that was a cheap shot. Of course he isn't 'yet' confirmed as such because he doesn't have the history or years under his belt or trophies yet. But I believe we have the modern equivalent.

Here's a fact for you. Fergie joined Man Utd in Nov 1986 and didn't win his first trophy until may 1990. He quickly turned the culture of the club around, but some details still needed addressing. He can probably thank Mark Robbins for buying him a little time, as without that goal at Forest he was apparently facing the sack. Come to think of it, he can thank Lee Martin too!!! When you take a look at Fergie's first few years at Utd, he did fine work but it still wasn't as spectacular as what Poch has done with us in the same time frame.
Let's see what Poch can achieve next season...but I stick fairly behind my belief that he is our Fergie.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...it-really-take-ferguson-three-years-to-get-it

Spot on, Steff. Poch took over a club that, apart from a couple of lovely Arry years, had been in quite a bit to turmoil. Yes, we had some good times with BMJ, but he took over due to the Santini mess. When Poch came here he had to weed out the bad seeds and develop an ethos from top to bottom. That ethos is flourishing, and as you say, we have been in the hunt in May TWICE in the past two years.

We will progress and we will win stuff.

COYS!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Spot on, Steff. Poch took over a club that, apart from a couple of lovely Arry years, had been in quite a bit to turmoil. Yes, we had some good times with BMJ, but he took over due to the Santini mess. When Poch came here he had to weed out the bad seeds and develop an ethos from top to bottom. That ethos is flourishing, and as you say, we have been in the hunt in May TWICE in the past two years.

We will progress and we will win stuff.

COYS!!!

Indeed...and I think the job he has done is absolutely comparable to Fergie's. Fergie came into a massive sleeping giant who had seen a bit of success with Bojangles but nothing consistent, had some deadweight to shift and a few kernels of potential. Sad thing is mate, Poch will NOT get the time Fergie did to win his first title (1993)...from 86 to 93 he did 'nothing' other than root and branch the attitude and win a few cups (even those took four years to start appearing!).

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

the club is more patient than its fans.
unlike financial doping, doing it the right way is likely a 3-step-forwards-2 steps-back journey, and since levy took over you can't argue that despite all the setbacks, the trend is positively upwards.

Windows of opportunity... a period when everything comes together to enable a club to win. We are in one now, but it wont stay open for long. Watch key players agitate for a release if we don't start winning things soon. This has nothing to do with the club, or the supporters, it's about the ambitions of players. Look at Defoe, he has been at the top for years and what has he won.....nothing?

 

[Spurs7891]

Bitterly disappointed but not really surprised. We always seem to lose out whenever we have a chance to move nearer to top of the league. Remember, we have been in the title race for 2 seasons in a row but have never been top of the league even for a week. Our away form have been poor this season and it has caught up with us now. Also notice that we have failed to win away at any big stadiums this season : ManU, Arsenal, ManCity, Chelsea, Liverpool, even Sunderland and now West Ham. The young players seem to freeze in front of big crowd. We have badly missed someone like Lamela who could have made the difference in away matches this season.

It is annoying to note we have lost away at West Ham for the second consecutive season, affecting our title chance in both seasons. We didn't turn up and didn't look like scoring the whole match. All our big players let us down badly in this match. Just when we needed them most, they went missing. Was hoping Kane could continue his goal run against West Ham. Instead, he was missing for most of the match and even wasted our best chance of the match. Alli and Kane should have scored in that occasion when Kane's initial shot was saved. Alli had time to dribble past the player to score but he shot direct at the defender. Kane could have scored from the rebound if he had placed it anywhere else but he shot direct at the goalie. Maybe Kane could have passed to Alli who was unmarked nearby.

I think we lost the midfield battle in this match. West Ham had too much possession in midfield which seemed to help their performance. Wish we had started Dembele and Wanyama in midfield. Dier was largely missing in midfield and didn't help Wanyama much. We badly needed Eriksen's creativity but he coldn't lift his game apart from a shot which went wide. Son had a shot saved in the second half but was less effective. Maybe Pochettino should have bring on Sissoko and Nkoudou to improve our midfield instead of Janssen and Trippier.

Our defence let us down badly in this match. After keeping clean sheet in our last 4 league matches, it was annoying to concede a goal like that. There were comedy of errors as we let the West Ham player score from close range. Alderweireld and Walker had time to stop the cross but failed. Then Davies had the chance to head it clear but failed to do that. Dier could have cleared it but was ball-watching. Vertonghen could have cleared it but missed. I think Alderweireld could have tackled the West Ham player instead of defending on the goal line as well. Alderweireld was not at his best in this match as his blunder in front of goal almost let West Ham score another goal.

After coming close to the league title, it is really depressing to lose out for the second season in a row. We still have a slim chance but can't see Chelsea throwing it away now even if our former players like Chadli, Gomes and Defoe try their best to help us out. Just hope we will win our remaining 3 matches to finish the season strongly.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They have been a big club ever since Munich tragedy when they became well known and a household name , they won a couple of Lge titles during the 60's as well as the Europen Cup. they had the likes of Best, Law , Charlton during the 60's who were players known all around Europe.

They were but so was Preston and villa and Forrest

Clubs come and go

Growing up in the 80s of was mainly pool fans. I know a lot less plastic united fans in my generation

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bitterly disappointed but not really surprised. We always seem to lose out whenever we have a chance to move nearer to top of the league. Remember, we have been in the title race for 2 seasons in a row but have never been top of the league even for a week. Our away form have been poor this season and it has caught up with us now. Also notice that we have failed to win away at any big stadiums this season : ManU, Arsenal, ManCity, Chelsea, Liverpool, even Sunderland and now West Ham. The young players seem to freeze in front of big crowd. We have badly missed someone like Lamela who could have made the difference in away matches this season.

It is annoying to note we have lost away at West Ham for the second consecutive season, affecting our title chance in both seasons. We didn't turn up and didn't look like scoring the whole match. All our big players let us down badly in this match. Just when we needed them most, they went missing. Was hoping Kane could continue his goal run against West Ham. Instead, he was missing for most of the match and even wasted our best chance of the match. Alli and Kane should have scored in that occasion when Kane's initial shot was saved. Alli had time to dribble past the player to score but he shot direct at the defender. Kane could have scored from the rebound if he had placed it anywhere else but he shot direct at the goalie. Maybe Kane could have passed to Alli who was unmarked nearby.

I think we lost the midfield battle in this match. West Ham had too much possession in midfield which seemed to help their performance. Wish we had started Dembele and Wanyama in midfield. Dier was largely missing in midfield and didn't help Wanyama much. We badly needed Eriksen's creativity but he coldn't lift his game apart from a shot which went wide. Son had a shot saved in the second half but was less effective. Maybe Pochettino should have bring on Sissoko and Nkoudou to improve our midfield instead of Janssen and Trippier.

Our defence let us down badly in this match. After keeping clean sheet in our last 4 league matches, it was annoying to concede a goal like that. There were comedy of errors as we let the West Ham player score from close range. Alderweireld and Walker had time to stop the cross but failed. Then Davies had the chance to head it clear but failed to do that. Dier could have cleared it but was ball-watching. Vertonghen could have cleared it but missed. I think Alderweireld could have tackled the West Ham player instead of defending on the goal line as well. Alderweireld was not at his best in this match as his blunder in front of goal almost let West Ham score another goal.

After coming close to the league title, it is really depressing to lose out for the second season in a row. We still have a slim chance but can't see Chelsea throwing it away now even if our former players like Chadli, Gomes and Defoe try their best to help us out. Just hope we will win our remaining 3 matches to finish the season strongly.

West Ham had 35% possession or something like that, they never had the midfield battle won

What they did was put all their men behind the ball and we failed to break it down. Add to that we let in a shocker and there you go

 

[Mikey10]

A lot of Spammers and Gooners ringing and texting into 606 last night saying we are bottlers. Robbie Savage told them they were talking nonsense, to be fair to him.

 

[parklane1]

'Spurs-y' is the most pathetic of phrases tome, a relatively 'new' term which someone apparently tried to force into an urban dictionary a few years ago. It is, as I understand it, designed to be an indication of a side that consistently blows it at the last.
Let me be clear about why I support Tottenham Hotspur mate.

"“The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”

I personally consider everything else a bonus. Now, IF you're telling me that 'Spurs-y' has now come to be a side that flirts with the Premiership title two seasons in a row and falls short in the last few games despite never actually having been top during either campaign (with the latter campaign having been a chair manufactured from nothing) then yes. Fine. 'sexy' if you wish. But I won't be using the term. Never have. Never will. So I suppose in order for your theory to hold weight, we have to accept the word 'Spurs-y'...which I won't mate.

All good. You don't have to proclaim him anything. I can tell you that having witnessed Fergie growing during that time with Utd, and seeing what Poch is doing at our club, I am HAPPY to proclaim him as such. The comparisons are bountiful and start off the pitch with the way the club is run.

You then went on to post all of SAF's achievements as 'proof' that Poch wasn't SAF 'yet'. With the greatest of respects, that was a cheap shot. Of course he isn't 'yet' confirmed as such because he doesn't have the history or years under his belt or trophies yet. But I believe we have the modern equivalent.

Here's a fact for you. Fergie joined Man Utd in Nov 1986 and didn't win his first trophy until may 1990. He quickly turned the culture of the club around, but some details still needed addressing. He can probably thank Mark Robbins for buying him a little time, as without that goal at Forest he was apparently facing the sack. Come to think of it, he can thank Lee Martin too!!! When you take a look at Fergie's first few years at Utd, he did fine work but it still wasn't as spectacular as what Poch has done with us in the same time frame.
Let's see what Poch can achieve next season...but I stick fairly behind my belief that he is our Fergie.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...it-really-take-ferguson-three-years-to-get-it

Great post mate and so true, as for the word Spurs_y it is pathetic and those that use it all the time are too. Some fans are always bitching about that word being used by pundits, media etc but then they use the phrase themselves, talk about idiots.

 

[Baleforce]

Windows of opportunity... a period when everything comes together to enable a club to win. We are in one now, but it wont stay open for long. Watch key players agitate for a release if we don't start winning things soon. This has nothing to do with the club, or the supporters, it's about the ambitions of players. Look at Defoe, he has been at the top for years and what has he won.....nothing?

this has to be a concern

we shouldn't ignore the massive underachievement of Manchester either

it requires exceptional circumstances for a club with our meagre means to be in with a shot of the title, we've excelled in matters under our control but there is a lot more to it

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Great post mate and so true, as for the word Spurs_y it is pathetic and those that use it all the time are too. Some fans are always bitching about that word being used by pundits, media etc but then they use the phrase themselves, talk about idiots.

If there was ever a doubt about the game being about the glory just look at how the spammers are rebelling in their one win!!!!

 

[parklane1]

Windows of opportunity... a period when everything comes together to enable a club to win. We are in one now, but it wont stay open for long. Watch key players agitate for a release if we don't start winning things soon. This has nothing to do with the club, or the supporters, it's about the ambitions of players. Look at Defoe, he has been at the top for years and what has he won.....nothing?

Spot on and this is why i keep saying we HAVE to win trophies if we want to keep our best players. I can not understand those that say trophies do not matter to players and its all about money. Its not i have never met a player at ANY level who does not feel pride and showing them off.

 

[parklane1]

They were but so was Preston and villa and Forrest

Clubs come and go

Growing up in the 80s of was mainly pool fans. I know a lot less plastic united fans in my generation

None of those you mentioned mate are/were as well known and followed as much around the world though, i spent 12 months traveling around Spain in the 70's and in most of the bars there was as many Utd flags as there was Madrid, Barca etc.

They are a MASSIVE club and do not need the financial doping that clubs like Chelski and City have. I agree that they have plastic fans but so many clubs have including us now.

 

[parklane1]

If there was ever a doubt about the game being about the glory just look at how the spammers are rebelling in their one win!!!!

Indeed, however let them have their 5 seconds of glory as it will not last. We are on the brink of having far more then they will ever achieve.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

None of those you mentioned mate are/were as well known and followed as much around the world though, i spent 12 months traveling around Spain in the 70's and in most of the bars there was as many Utd flags as there was Madrid, Barca etc.

They are a MASSIVE club and do not need the financial doping that clubs like Chelski and City have. I agree that they have plastic fans but so many clubs have including us now.

I agree in the 70s

In the 80s though they were like Everton now IMO

Your older than me and have seen the old great united sides too and that's what built them up

Similarly the pool fans now have seen the pool sides of the 70s and 80s

Kids growing up now in the U.K. Aren't choosing Liverpool to follow now unless then follow their folks

And united are a massive club now due to coming good at the time the game went massive TV wise

 

[glasgowspur]

Windows of opportunity... a period when everything comes together to enable a club to win. We are in one now, but it wont stay open for long. Watch key players agitate for a release if we don't start winning things soon. This has nothing to do with the club, or the supporters, it's about the ambitions of players. Look at Defoe, he has been at the top for years and what has he won.....nothing?

With all due respect, it's the players that have failed to win, not the Club.
Everything was in place the last two seasons to win something, so if the players have a need to win something and aren't good enough here and require the crutch of bigger teams to do it maybe they aren't as good as they think they are.

 

[parklane1]

I agree in the 70s

In the 80s though they were like Everton now IMO

Your older than me and have seen the old great united sides too and that's what built them up

Similarly the pool fans now have seen the pool sides of the 70s and 80s

Kids growing up now in the U.K. Aren't choosing Liverpool to follow now unless then follow their folks

And united are a massive club now due to coming good at the time the game went massive TV wise

I do not think we are far apart in what we both say, probably not the right thing to say but i and many Utd supporters i know ( and like i said earlier i have family who come from there and are ST holders at Utd) believe that the tragedy of 58 was the turning point for them getting the world wide following and its just grown from there.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do not think we are far apart in what we both say, probably not the right thing to say but i and many Utd supporters i know ( and like i said earlier i have family who come from there and are ST holders at Utd) believe that the tragedy of 58 was the turning point for them getting the world wide following and its just grown from there.

Oh it was . It was global news for a non global sport. They may have had a global name in the 80s but didn't have the glory supporters they now have in the UK (can't comment on the rest of the world)

I know a lot of united fans who are loyal and go who are 50/60 years old and I know plenty in the 30s. Don't know many my age (40) who go

I do know a lot of mancs who are united fans though and strangely we have a lot of city fans in bedford who feel like lottery winners

 

[Bedfordspurs]

With all due respect, it's the players that have failed to win, not the Club.
Everything was in place the last two seasons to win something, so if the players have a need to win something and aren't good enough here and require the crutch of bigger teams to do it maybe they aren't as good as they think they are.

That's my issue

Their the people who didn't perform

 

[parklane1]

Oh it was . It was global news for a non global sport. They may have had a global name in the 80s but didn't have the glory supporters they now have in the UK (can't comment on the rest of the world)

I know a lot of united fans who are loyal and go who are 50/60 years old and I know plenty in the 30s. Don't know many my age (40) who go

I do know a lot of mancs who are united fans though and strangely we have a lot of city fans in bedford who feel like lottery winners

I think you can say the same about most clubs having glory supporters in todays game, i am sure you meet as many supporters as i do that have never even seen a game live and just follow the clubs because ite the " in thing". The reason that Utd are the club i hate most is because i spent time living up there and they are everywhere ( there were few local City supporters even during their time under Mercer/Allison). For their home games in the 60'70's they had coach loads of fans from Ireland, England and even from abroad at all their home games).

Anyway we are taking this thread of topic so we will have to agree to disagree on one or two SMALL points.