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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Saudi Sportswashing Machine ***

Gazza Dazzla said:
They were talking down Tottenham to clearly OTT level, that’s my point. On Saudi Sportswashing Machine, they will be there or there about in a few years but this seasons struggles for them could have been predicted with the extra games and their squad, with an ounce of foresight. They performed out of their skins last season, almost Leicester-esque.

Some fans wanted a “winning” manager, some fans didn’t. It’s very easy to critique managerial appointments in hindsight. If the fans are happy with Ange then so will Levy be. If they’re not then he’ll be gone like AVB, Jose, Conte and everyone else the fans wanted out.
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Given that we didn’t have a long term manager in place at the time and that Levy had got the last few wrong coupled with a few years of underperforming in terms of league finishes I don’t think the narrative was overly OTT. Things change quickly in football though, sometimes unexpectedly. No one expected Arsenal to challenge for the title last season.

The fans didn’t want poch gone, that was Levy. I would love to see Levy show patience and back a manager that has consecutive mid table league finishes.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Michael Dawson also thought it was an awful tackle as well and he used to play for spurs
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So? He's not going to go against the narrative. Pundits are like sheep, once one says something they all follow suit. There's barely an independent thought or any real analysis done between the lot of them on Sky.
Dermot Gallagher, ex-ref who has more knowledge of what is and isn't a red said it wasn't.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Given that we didn’t have a long term manager in place at the time and that Levy had got the last few wrong coupled with a few years of underperforming in terms of league finishes I don’t think the narrative was overly OTT. Things change quickly in football though, sometimes unexpectedly. No one expected Arsenal to challenge for the title last season.

The fans didn’t want poch gone, that was Levy. I would love to see Levy show patience and back a manager that has consecutive mid table league finishes.
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There was plenty that did and most importantly Poch wanted Poch gone.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
It was just a lazy narrative by sky, nothing more than that. I very much doubt they gave it more than a seconds thought based on the league table and form. But it played well with the mood of our fan base at the time.

If the fans are happy and there’s signs of improvement then they’ll be no issue with finishing 8th I wouldn’t have thought. The league is way more competitive now than it was when the likes AVB, or even Poch and Jose got sacked. And let’s not forget the only manager the fans themselves didn’t really want out in recent times is Poch (who wanted out himself), it’s not like Levy was making mistakes in the sackings. Which seems to be the implication when this is brought up.
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For years Sky have totally ignored violence and thuggery by United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the cynical fouls by City and when something is blatant we're told "he's not that sort of guy" , it's something Romero needs to address as we need him but we need to show some aggression just have it under control.
 
DubSpur said:
So? He's not going to go against the narrative. Pundits are like sheep, once one says something they all follow suit. There's barely an independent thought or any real analysis done between the lot of them on Sky.
Dermot Gallagher, ex-ref who has more knowledge of what is and isn't a red said it wasn't.
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The initial contact on Wilson was bad enough but the second swipe was just cowardly. If someone had done that to Romero I’d have the same view. He tackles too excessively, especially in situations where it’s not unnecessary, like when he took out Richarlison when he played for Everton.

Have you watched Super Sunday before? Carragher, Keane, Richards and Neville regularly disagree with each other. You could just as easily say that refs pretty much always have each other’s backs.
 
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DubSpur said:
There was plenty that did and most importantly Poch wanted Poch gone.
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I’ve had a season ticket for 8 years and I don’t recall hearing many fans being vocal in the stadium about wanting poch gone. Certainly nothing like the level that ironically were chanting “Levy out” last season.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
Given that we didn’t have a long term manager in place at the time and that Levy had got the last few wrong coupled with a few years of underperforming in terms of league finishes I don’t think the narrative was overly OTT. Things change quickly in football though, sometimes unexpectedly. No one expected Arsenal to challenge for the title last season.

The fans didn’t want poch gone, that was Levy. I would love to see Levy show patience and back a manager that has consecutive mid table league finishes.
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comments on our demise were OTT, I remember arguing against many on here as well during that period who were saying the same. “No one was going to accept the job, no one wants to work with Levy, we’ll be in a relegation battle, how will we score without Kane, etc etc etc.” OTT

Conte got us Champions League football again don’t forget and I don’t remember too many wanting us to pass up on appointing him at the time. Question marks about temperament and style, yes, but Levy would have been lynched had he passed up on appointing him.

I didn’t say the fans wanted Poch gone, it was Poch who wanted out.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
For years Sky have totally ignored violence and thuggery by United, Liverpool, Chelsea and the cynical fouls by City and when something is blatant we're told "he's not that sort of guy" , it's something Romero needs to address as we need him but we need to show some aggression just have it under control.
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Quoted the wrong post?
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
comments on our demise were OTT, I remember arguing against many on here as well during that period who were saying the same. “No one was going to accept the job, no one wants to work with Levy, we’ll be in a relegation battle, how will we score without Kane, etc etc etc.” OTT

Conte got us Champions League football again don’t forget and I don’t remember too many wanting us to pass up on appointing him at the time. Question marks about temperament and style, yes, but Levy would have been lynched had he passed up on appointing him.

I didn’t say the fans wanted Poch gone, it was Poch who wanted out.
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All I’m saying is given what was happening in front of everyone’s eyes ie a 6-1 hammering, the fact that we hadn’t appointed a new manager, Paratici’s hostage video, not to mention Kane was likely to be leaving that summer, things weren’t overly rosy for us at that point. Nothing lasts forever, we can agree or disagree on the success of ENIC over their time here and on the whole the trajectory has been upward but everyone has a sell by date and the fans had been making their point to levy about how unhappy they were.

Conte is a top manager but what’s more important has to be is the manager a good fit. Ange most certainly is. The fans love him and he plays the style of football which our fans want to see.

I’m still of the opinion that new ownership wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for the club. We’ve had more than 20 years of Levy. Even just to freshen things up it wouldn’t be a terrible idea for a change.
 
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DubSpur said:
So? He's not going to go against the narrative. Pundits are like sheep, once one says something they all follow suit. There's barely an independent thought or any real analysis done between the lot of them on Sky.
Dermot Gallagher, ex-ref who has more knowledge of what is and isn't a red said it wasn't.
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Come on, the guy who bends over backwards to defend any / every refereeing decision made up to and including the referee assaulting a player?

You've set out your stall on this one and obviously won't change your mind but Romero's unnecessarily stamped on the guy, if you think that's fine then fair enough but even you have described it as a stamp, unless it's prison rules stamping generally isn't accepted in football.

Whatever we think doesn't change it but like with his early kick out during the Chelsea game it's giving the ref an excuse / opportunity to consider something as either reckless or excessive force or violence. Early on in a close game or late on in one we've already won isn't great when both incidents were completely needless. You're calling the pundits sheep, how about the game is about glory guys, they thought it was a red, is that part of some agenda of following suit as well?

I don't reckon anyone is jumping at the chance to slag him off but after a win or loss, we are allowed to discuss the positives and negatives of performances and the discipline issue keeps on rearing it's ugly head. It has already cost us and will again, obviously to a certain extent we just need good enough cover for the multiple suspensions Romero gets but I am think some responsibility lies with him to cut the psycho brick out.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I’ve had a season ticket for 8 years and I don’t recall hearing many fans being vocal in the stadium about wanting poch gone. Certainly nothing like the level that ironically were chanting “Levy out” last season.
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I was very fine with Poch leaving for multiple reasons. I have no problems in hindsight with him leaving.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Come on, the guy who bends over backwards to defend any / every refereeing decision made up to and including the referee assaulting a player?

You've set out your stall on this one and obviously won't change your mind but Romero's unnecessarily stamped on the guy, if you think that's fine then fair enough but even you have described it as a stamp, unless it's prison rules stamping generally isn't accepted in football.

Whatever we think doesn't change it but like with his early kick out during the Chelsea game it's giving the ref an excuse / opportunity to consider something as either reckless or excessive force or violence. Early on in a close game or late on in one we've already won isn't great when both incidents were completely needless. You're calling the pundits sheep, how about the game is about glory guys, they thought it was a red, is that part of some agenda of following suit as well?

I don't reckon anyone is jumping at the chance to slag him off but after a win or loss, we are allowed to discuss the positives and negatives of performances and the discipline issue keeps on rearing it's ugly head. It has already cost us and will again, obviously to a certain extent we just need good enough cover for the multiple suspensions Romero gets but I am think some responsibility lies with him to cut the psycho brick out.
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Gallagher often disagrees with on-field decisions. Doesn't mean he's right all the time, lots of it is subjective.
But for every pundit that says that it's a red, there'll be a Gallagher that says it's not which is the main point.
I don't need and I'm sure you don't need a pundit to make your mind up on a challenge.

Did I say the tackle was fine? Just because for me it's not a red doesn't mean I think the tackle was ok to make, it was stupid from him. From my original post on it commenting that it was a stupid challenge:
DubSpur said:
The tackle was low and was basically a stamp on a foot. It’s never a red. Is Romero stupid and potentially a problem? Yes. Does that mean every tackle he makes is a red? fudge no, just like today not every stupid challenge is a red
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So I 100% agree that it has cost us before and will most likely cost us again and he needs to cut it out.

And I hope we are allowed to discuss things here, both positive and negative, otherwise what's the point of the place?
 
DubSpur said:
Gallagher often disagrees with on-field decisions. Doesn't mean he's right all the time, lots of it is subjective.
But for every pundit that says that it's a red, there'll be a Gallagher that says it's not which is the main point.
I don't need and I'm sure you don't need a pundit to make your mind up on a challenge.

Did I say the tackle was fine? Just because for me it's not a red doesn't mean I think the tackle was ok to make, it was stupid from him. From my original post on it commenting that it was a stupid challenge:

So I 100% agree that it has cost us before and will most likely cost us again and he needs to cut it out.

And I hope we are allowed to discuss things here, both positive and negative, otherwise what's the point of the place?
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I'm not going to trawl through the thread but iirc you seemed to indicate that people were making a bigger deal out of it than it was worth considering we won. If it was another poster or I misread the intention of the post I apologize, but there was the notion of ire at talking about anything not positive simply because we won.

From the post you've quoted the only thing we don't agree on is whether it's a red or not, not that it makes a difference but fair enough on your other points!

I haven't ever seen the ex ref ever go against the decision that was reached via the ref and / or VAR, it very much seems like he's out to protect his own to me.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That’s true and they need a bigger squad as they’re clearly struggling with the extra games and the amount of injuries they have. They’re definitely going to be a threat with the amount of money they have though.
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You have to stop conflating the fact that the owners have money with the fact that the club has money. Their revenue is a little more than half of ours. It will increase as the club's profile gets elevated, but it's not going to happen overnight. They're still a few years away from matching our revenue, by which time ours will have probably increased even more. They'll still be competitive in the meantime, but don't think they'll be City anytime soon.
 
alekaras said:
You have to stop conflating the fact that the owners have money with the fact that the club has money. Their revenue is a little more than half of ours. It will increase as the club's profile gets elevated, but it's not going to happen overnight. They're still a few years away from matching our revenue, by which time ours will have probably increased even more. They'll still be competitive in the meantime, but don't think they'll be City anytime soon.
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Unless they get a million sponsors from saudi owned companies. Saudi own a big chunk of black rock i believe. So that would include the likes of apple and google.
 
Lilbaz said:
Unless they get a million sponsors from saudi owned companies. Saudi own a big chunk of black rock i believe. So that would include the likes of apple and google.
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That's always an option and one they will definitely take advantage of to get there faster. But it will still have to be done incrementally, so as not to raise eyebrows. You won't see, for example, a £100m a year stadium naming rights deal, or an £80m a year shirt sponsorship. So it's still going to take more time than a season or two.

In the meantime, what will keep them competitive is having good managers. I'd be more concerned if they signed a Slot or a Nagelsman, than if they made some extra cash from some sponsorship deal.
 
Two things I wanted to mention, which might have already been mentioned in past comments:

1. We played many more long balls, instead of playing out from the back, which I was surprised to see. It didn't change our effectiveness one bit, so hopefully we'll do it more in the future.

2. The move that resulted in the shot from Johnson that hit the post was a thing of beauty. If that had gone in, it would have been one of the most beautiful goals we have scored in a long time.
 
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