Next Spurs Manager v.2

[NWND]

Can you imagine if Sherwood had managed a team who went 2 goals ahead at a helplessly out of form team only to go onto lose 3-2?? #justsaying!

Yeah and Liverpool threw away a 3-0 lead to draw against Palace. Shizzle happens.

 

[Cotswold]

I disagree completely.

Did Liverpool give Hodgson time? Did Liverpool give Dalglish time? Did they ****.

Rodgers was kept after his first season after finishing 7th, the season before that they had finished 8th. AVB was kept after his first season after finishing 5th, the season before that we had finished 4th. How can that be seen as Liverpool keeping faith and giving time without also extending the same to us?

I'm not saying they've always kept faith with every manager - simply that they did with Rodgers.
We don't with anyone. 9 managers in 13 years.

 

[Hootnow]

Nope the average tag was mine I think so you may tar me with that brush I like tar so unaffected

I stand by my thought that patch is average at the moment in my opinion
he may turn out amazing but again I will ask what has he done to warrant him getting the job at spurs ??

Just for the record I wanted martinez instead of avb it is very well documented just not on here
I would not have touched avb with a flag pole

Fair enough. It obviously isn't going to be 100% but I suspect there is quite a strong correlation between those who previously said no to the other 2 and those who are dead set against him now.

I'm not even strongly in favour of Poch by any means. I can't say I've watched all of their games or could write you a dossier on his 'vision' for how his teams should play. I do however know that when I did watch them, I was very impressed with their football. I was very impressed with the progress that quite a few of their players have made over the past 2 years. And I was very impressed with their league finishes.

A club of our standing needs to gamble for the most part with managerial appointments, unless someone obvious like LVG (and some will disagree) Benitez comes along. That means someone who may not be at the top now but has shown vision and the ability to get more out of his players than their ability might indicate.

Out of interest, what had Martinez done that you thought warranted him getting the job when AVB was hired?

 

[NWND]

I'm not saying they've always kept faith with every manager - simply that they did with Rodgers.
We don't with anyone. 9 managers in 13 years.

Yeah but hang on, there has to be clear signs of progress. Liverpool may have finished 7th that season under Rogers but their football took a definate turn for the better. After January particularly they started showing some fairly devastating form with Sturridge and Coutinho recruited.

You could see the improvement.

There were no signs of improvement under Dalglish or Hodgson and none under AVB for us.

If somethings worth being patient with then be patient if it doesnt look like its going anywhere then boot it!

If a manager, say Poch, had been in charge this season, finished in exactly the same league positiin and with the same points but:

1) played entertaining attacking, technical football whilst implementing a consistent tactical plan winning plaudits in the media
2) gave the top 4 a tough game and avoided the heavy defeats

Then i think the perception of the season would be completely different -"we sold bale and had to integrate 7 new players but weve looked good finished 6th and qualified for Europe just missing out on our record points tally" thats what a lot would be thinking.

I think a manager in that situation would get time.


AVB didnt get more time as nobody coukd see any signs of progress in our ability to attack and create and Sherwood didnt get time because there was no progress in our defensive farts and performance in big games and clear personality clashes that meant it was not going to work out

 

[90sSpursBook]

I'm beginning to think that:

most managers are average and will achieve little (55%)

some managers are very poor and will have a negative effect (20%)

occasionally managers will do well and have a mildly positive effect (20%)

very, very occasionally a manager will be very successful and achieve prolonged success (5%)

Of all our recent managers, Harry would fit into the 3rd category, Gross into the 2nd and the rest of them into the 1st. We're always looking for and hoping to unearth the next Ferguson or Wenger but realistically they come along once a generation.

 

[Cotswold]

Yeah but hang on, there has to be clear signs of progress. Liverpool may have finished 7th that season under Rogers but their football took a definate turn for the better. After January particularly they started showing some fairly devastating form with Sturridge and Coutinho recruited.

You could see the improvement.

There were no signs of improvement under Dalglish or Hodgson and none under AVB for us.

If somethings worth being patient with then be patient if it doesnt look like its going anywhere then boot it!

If a manager, say Poch, had been in charge this season, finished in exactly the same league positiin and with the same points but:

1) played entertaining attacking, technical football whilst implementing a consistent tactical plan winning plaudits in the media
2) gave the top 4 a tough game and avoided the heavy defeats

Then i think the perception of the season would be completely different -"we sold bale and had to integrate 7 new players but weve looked good finished 6th and qualified for Europe just missing out on our record points tally" thats what a lot would be thinking.

I think a manager in that situation would get time.


AVB didnt get more time as nobody coukd see any signs of progress in our ability to attack and create and Sherwood didnt get time because there was no progress in our defensive farts and performance in big games and clear personality clashes that meant it was not going to work out

That's all fine but you're talking as if AVB was our first manager to be fired quickly. Santini, Jol, Ramos. The Lane is a managerial graveyard.

 

[Hootnow]

The difference with rodgers and martinez is that they both brought teams up from the Championship and kept them there whereas Poch has come in to the EPL and taken an avcerage team to an average position, his record at Espanyol before that was hardly exceptional. I would much sooner see an established manager come in rather than another "possible genius".

I agree. I would rather have had LVG and would still prefer Benitez now if he genuinely wanted to come.

I'm not really sure what the relevance of bringing a club up from the lower down is to us? We're not going up or down any division.

This 'average team' to 'average position' thing is starting to bother me a little tbh, there's some incredible hindsight bias going on here. When Southampton came up, how many people were saying that they would be a midtable club? That Rodriguez would score 17 goals? That Lallana would be going to the world cup? That Clyne, Schneiderlein and Ward-Prowse would look as good as they have?

I don't know, I don't watch as much football as I used to or as much as others do so perhaps lots of fans and pundits were predicting big things for that Southampton squad and on their promotion, everyone was raving about how these players would do so well in the league.

I remember talking to quite a few Liverpool fans on their hiring of Rodgers. Why should he be given the chance to prove himself at Liverpool, he has done nothing yet, he needs to move to a better squad first and prove himself etc etc. They're all on board now surprisingly.

Again, I'm not advocating for him. I would prefer Benitez out of the 3 names we've been most linked with but wouldn't be unhappy with any of the 3. I'm just a bit surprised at some of the opinions of Pochettino. Which exactly of Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham and Manchester United were people predicting Southampton should be finishing above at the beginning of the season?

It is worth nothing for example that Southampton for the 2012/ 2013 season had the 18th highest wage bill in the division and the 14th highest turnover. I'm sure it has gone up now, both in real terms and relative to other clubs but I'm just a bit confused about exactly where people expect Southampton to be?

 

[Modric THFC]

Pochettino's style is nothing like AVB's. Pochettino's teams press, but don't employ a high-line. The centre-backs do not get involved in the pressing so much and sit deep.

Also, AVB's teams, once they had possession, were told to be patient with the ball and wait for a safe opening, without taking risks.

Pochettino's teams look to go forward quickly in possession and look for the risky ball in the final 3rd a tonne more than AVB's teams.

How do you do that when the opposition has 10 men behind the ball at all times and you have only one player who can unlock a defence (Eriksen) ?
AVB's Porto team were all high tempo counter attacking at pace. In Premier League he couldn't handle decent teams defending deep.

Pochettino has never experienced this. Who knows if he will be able to create a team that can unlock packed defences, he has no experience of it.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm not saying they've always kept faith with every manager - simply that they did with Rodgers.
We don't with anyone. 9 managers in 13 years.

Did you read my post?

Compared to their predecessors Rodgers improved their league position by one spot, meanwhile AVB dropped one spot.

Again, if that means that they "kept the faith" with Rodgers, why isn't the same true for us and AVB?

 

[braineclipse]

How do you do that when the opposition has 10 men behind the ball at all times and you have only one player who can unlock a defence (Eriksen) ?
AVB's Porto team were all high tempo counter attacking at pace. In Premier League he couldn't handle decent teams defending deep.

Pochettino has never experienced this. Who knows if he will be able to create a team that can unlock packed defences, he has no experience of it.

I think that's a bit much.

Most bottom half teams, certainly the bottom 5, would have been very happy to get a point away to Southampton this season and would most likely have approached a game there in a similar fashion to how teams play against us.

In addition to that any team that takes the lead will obviously be happy with the current result and many will defend accordingly. Again, particularly smaller teams.

You don't think teams in Portugal sit back against Porto by the way? I agree that AVB struggled to implement his system with us and with Chelsea. That's one of the many points where Poch is different, he has shown that he can implement his ideas in the Premier League.

I find it quite interesting that in the same thread people like NWND and myself have to argue against both "8th was just where Southampton should have ended up, they really are that good" and "Poch has never experienced teams defending deep".

I'm hoping and guessing one of the things Poch would do is to bring in more players that can unlock teams, instead of playing with just the one. This is essentially what Sherwood has done, although I think Poch will be able to do it better.

 

[thfcsteff]

Barnett is supposed to be very good mates with Levy

'Was' mate...I will always wonder about how much that relationship changed the course of our club's recent history...because as we moved into June '13, Bale was staying...anyway...this one is (as some others have said) chairman v owner. It will be interesting who wins out, but as I said a couple of weeks ago, Pochettino is a good bet. I can only think Martinez ruled himself out after all, because there was truth there. Rafa Benitez makes sense on paper but I suspect there's a lot of 'touting about' and not much substance there. The Baldini factor is big remember, and one thing I thought about when Pochettino's name was first mentioned is how he's Argentinian, how Baldini believe in Lamela and how the two of them might work together to make him an absolute focus. Lallana's become one for Soton, and I see a project afoot to make Lamela the same. I think the boy is going to get some proper support from all places next season if these end up being the driving seat of the club for a while.

 

[thfcsteff]

passing up on FdB could end up being as bad as when we rejected the opportunity to bring in Suarez from Ajax....sliding door moments. Our other dealing with Ajax have been excellent, Eriksen and Vertonghen. Come on Levy, go Dutch!!!

I think people need to be calm with Eriksen. He has the tools but I am not convinced yet he will be the total maestro. He needs some work IMO, but now he has a season under his belt, he might be ready to push on...

 

[DHSF]

What about this Benfica character? Now theyve lost the EL, you think maybe time to move on etc

 

[Grassroots]

Fair enough. It obviously isn't going to be 100% but I suspect there is quite a strong correlation between those who previously said no to the other 2 and those who are dead set against him now.

I'm not even strongly in favour of Poch by any means. I can't say I've watched all of their games or could write you a dossier on his 'vision' for how his teams should play. I do however know that when I did watch them, I was very impressed with their football. I was very impressed with the progress that quite a few of their players have made over the past 2 years. And I was very impressed with their league finishes.

A club of our standing needs to gamble for the most part with managerial appointments, unless someone obvious like LVG (and some will disagree) Benitez comes along. That means someone who may not be at the top now but has shown vision and the ability to get more out of his players than their ability might indicate.

Out of interest, what had Martinez done that you thought warranted him getting the job when AVB was hired?

Ahhh thats a simple one to answer

I work with semi pro footballers and talk to coaches and managers every day and quite frankly they bore the living **** out of me
But when ever martinez talks football ,tactics ,style of play and philosophy I sit and listen its interesting.
he has a passion unlike few others and a great understanding of how football should be played and is a workaholic
in short like lvg and fdb I like him.

 

[milo]

'Was' mate...I will always wonder about how much that relationship changed the course of our club's recent history...because as we moved into June '13, Bale was staying...anyway...this one is (as some others have said) chairman v owner. It will be interesting who wins out, but as I said a couple of weeks ago, Pochettino is a good bet. I can only think Martinez ruled himself out after all, because there was truth there. Rafa Benitez makes sense on paper but I suspect there's a lot of 'touting about' and not much substance there. The Baldini factor is big remember, and one thing I thought about when Pochettino's name was first mentioned is how he's Argentinian, how Baldini believe in Lamela and how the two of them might work together to make him an absolute focus. Lallana's become one for Soton, and I see a project afoot to make Lamela the same. I think the boy is going to get some proper support from all places next season if these end up being the driving seat of the club for a while.

Do you really think that we would make an appointment for reasons so focussed on one player or do you just see that as a side benefit?

 

[Cochise]

I'd be happy with Poch, but I still have a nagging feeling that FDB would be the one that got away. Then again if we get FDB I'll end up thinking that we may have made a mistake.

Too many negative posts make me wary of any new manager.

 

[Grassroots]

How do you do that when the opposition has 10 men behind the ball at all times and you have only one player who can unlock a defence (Eriksen) ?
AVB's Porto team were all high tempo counter attacking at pace. In Premier League he couldn't handle decent teams defending deep.

Pochettino has never experienced this. Who knows if he will be able to create a team that can unlock packed defences, he has no experience of it.

That is a very fair and well reasoned response in fairness.
Southampton to spurs is two entirely different scenarios

 

[thfcsteff]

Ahhh thats a simple one to answer

I work with semi pro footballers and talk to coaches and managers every day and quite frankly they bore the living **** out of me
But when ever martinez talks football ,tactics ,style of play and philosophy I sit and listen its interesting.
he has a passion unlike few others and a great understanding of how football should be played and is a workaholic
in short like lvg and fdb I like him.

So funny you say this. I was recently talking with some Welsh lads who have moved on in lower league football about Masrtinez (two had been with him at Swansea) and they LOVED him, said he was the absolute business...these guys had seen a few managers too...they swore by him. one guy got injured as a reserve in his final year of contract and he said Martinez immediately gave him a year extension so as he could rehab properly without worry and take his time coming back. amazing.

 

[Cochise]

That is a very fair and well reasoned response in fairness.
Southampton to spurs is two entirely different scenarios

To be fair though, even the top teams have problems against these sides.

 

[Hootnow]

I'd be happy with Poch, but I still have a nagging feeling that FDB would be the one that got away. Then again if we get FDB I'll end up thinking that we may have made a mistake.

Too many negative posts make me wary of any new manager.

That's the nature of the internet!

Even just 15 years ago, I'd be finding out the news of our next manager on ceefax, not give it much thought and look forward to the new season.

Now we have media all over the place linking managers long before they arrive at the club. Pundits and armchair pundits (ie the forum fans ) mention every positive and negative they feel about every candidate, over and over again, to the extent that when they eventually do come, we all feel like experts and are already a little depressed because the new manager doesn't quite do this or that.