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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

As opposed to the entitlement idiots who thought the grass was greener on the other side - three years ago?

nb it really isnt 11 games, its the culmination of three years.

I've talked about this in the 'elephant' thread, but I think the whole last 3 (or 2.25) years has been caused because Redknapp's house was built on sand.

It's not very exciting when you try and dig foundations into the bedrock when everyone wants to see the interior design, but the resulting house will stand taller and for longer.


I would argue that LVG's previous record probably allows a club to give him that much time and be confident that he will achieve his goal. Does Pochettino's prior record allow us to trust him this much? Why do you feel that Pochettino deserves time despite us being far worse this season than last and also seeming to get worse by the week when Sherwood didn't even deserve 5 minutes in the job despite being able to hit the ground running?

Also why do you keep on mentioning Neil Warnock as though our club would ever end up with him as manager?

Perhaps having Pochettino now (and AVB before) was to spite the entitlement idiots who wanted Harry and then Tim out?

I wonder how you would feel if it was Warnock managing us right now and we were producing these abject performances (in fact the performances are even worse than that!) Sherwood was getting incredible criticism from some of the posters on here, despite us actually doing pretty well, why are Pochettino and Sherwood not judged by the same circumstances - this is where you try to come up with something to disguise the real reason of "Sherwood is English and common and wears a body warmer (it's not allowed to be called a Gillet when Sherwood wears it as Gillet is too forein and exotic sounding for Shrerwood), whereas Pochettino is Argentinian and has a sexy accent"

Please tell me what is it about this Pochettino Spurs team that you are seeing that makes you confident that things are going to get better? (and the fact that it looks almost impossible for them to actually get any worse isn't a valid argument).

Poch built the most over-performing team in the league over the past 2 seasons. That's as good a set of credentials as we are ever likely to get.

Warnock is just the Redknapp of this generation. Redknapp's name was used jokingly in exactly the same sort of scare scenarios 6 years.

Poch isn't about entitlement. He's about the opposite - delayed gratification. It's about doing things properly and for the long term, instead of another sticky plaster, like we've been doing for 25 years. Giving Poch time to install a system is exactly what happened with Nicholson and Burkinshaw, with Rodgers and Poch at Soton.

So a few promising signs from Poch so far:
- City was the best attacking display we've put in since vdV left
- Players like Rose, Chadli, Kane, Mason, Naughton and Townsend have come on bounds this season - you can really see improvement through coaching happening to them.
- We've got an excellent away record (joint 4th best in the league)
- Performances like Arsenal and Southampton
 
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united is a tougher job, them getting back to where they should be is them winning the european cup


But isn't the Spurs job to get to 4th, with no time, the lowest next spend in the league, an inherently hostile home crowd, and with by some distance the 6th biggest club?
 
Can't quite believe that City game is being made mythic in a positive way. We lost 4-1, City were too busy throwing eight men forwards raping our terrible defence to be too arsed about defending themselves. I'm sure they knew that was a likely way to win the game. Best attacking performance since VDV, dear GHod....

No-one quite brings out the agendas like Redknapp.
 
In he last 3 games Poch has changed his mind about us being mentally weak 3 times, we are, we are'nt, we are...

We are mate so sort it...
 
Keith Burkinshaw was there as well. Is he in the frame too?

I'd love Klinsmann to be given Trevor Brookings old job as head of grassroots football, but he's a very poor club coach.

GHod knows - it's probably only speculation. For the record I agree wholeheartedly with those who say Poch must be given more time, despite a few shocking performances lately. I'm glad he at least seems to want to address the mentality issues we quite clearly have. That's a start.
 
I've talked about this in the 'elephant' thread, but I think the whole last 3 (or 2.25) years has been caused because Redknapp's house was built on sand.

It's not very exciting when you try and dig foundations into the bedrock when everyone wants to see the interior design, but the resulting house will stand taller and for longer.




Poch built the most over-performing team in the league over the past 2 seasons. That's as good a set of credentials as we are ever likely to get.

Warnock is just the Redknapp of this generation. Redknapp's name was used jokingly in exactly the same sort of scare scenarios 6 years.

Poch isn't about entitlement. He's about the opposite - delayed gratification. It's about doing things properly and for the long term, instead of another sticky plaster, like we've been doing for 25 years. Giving Poch time to install a system is exactly what happened with Nicholson and Burkinshaw, with Rodgers and Poch at Soton.

So a few promising signs from Poch so far:
- City was the best attacking display we've put in since vdV left
- Players like Rose, Chadli, Kane, Mason, Naughton and Townsend have come on bounds this season - you can really see improvement through coaching happening to them.
- We've got an excellent away record (joint 4th best in the league)
- Performances like Arsenal and Southampton

Poch didn't build what's happening at Southampton. A lot of what they are doing well was already in place when he went there. There is a vision, a structure, a plan there that carries on no matter the manager.

Poch was identified to u best use the resources just like Koeman has been.

We've got an excellent away record? Yes, and a miserable home record. Tbh, its better for all if it was the other way round.
 
But isn't the Spurs job to get to 4th, with no time, the lowest next spend in the league, an inherently hostile home crowd, and with by some distance the 6th biggest club?

All true, but that's no excuse for the terrible football we are witnessing, the bizarre team selections, odd substitutions, feeble excuses whenever things go wrong.
 
Two positives about Poch so far are firstly that our injury record/treatment table is the best I've known it for a while, so preparation and prevention is spot on. Secondly he is prepared to play the young player like Kane, Bentaleb, Dier and Mason.

I'm really not sure where we are heading, things are difficult at the moment and I can't see much chance of improvement in the short term, but because i simply don't trust Levy to ever make the right appointment id rather stick with Poch and just let him rip this squad apart as soon as he can and then see what he can do.
 
Jan Vertonghen is convinced Mauricio Pochettino’s analytical approach will eventually pay dividends at Spurs.

The Argentine succeeded Tim Sherwood in the summer having shone at Southampton, leading the south coast club to an eighth-placed finish last season and playing plenty of attractive football along the way.

But his methods are still to be fully embraced by his new troops at White Hart Lane, where Tottenham have suffered four defeats in their last five league games.

Juande Ramos was given the boot the last time Spurs lost four home league matches in five, in October 2008, and after seeing his charges booed off on Sunday, Pochettino admitted he would need to ‘change the mentality’ of his players before they next take to the field against Hull following the international break.

In the aftermath of their latest setback - beaten 2-1 by Stoke - striker Emmanuel Adebayor claimed the team ‘are not getting the message’.

But Vertonghen, an unused substitute against the Potters, believes the Spurs supremo will come good if he is afforded the time by chairman Daniel Levy.

“Pochettino loves to analyse games and gives more tactical meetings [than Sherwood],” he told FourFourTwo.

“He approaches everything in detail and in the end we will profit because of that. He loves a good conversation and detail and I think he is good for us.

“We try to play more from the back, with more pressing and a new formation so it takes some time. We have a lot of players so he needs time for everyone to fit.”


http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/vertonghen-pochs-approach-will-come-good
 
Jan Vertonghen is convinced Mauricio Pochettino’s analytical approach will eventually pay dividends at Spurs.

The Argentine succeeded Tim Sherwood in the summer having shone at Southampton, leading the south coast club to an eighth-placed finish last season and playing plenty of attractive football along the way.

But his methods are still to be fully embraced by his new troops at White Hart Lane, where Tottenham have suffered four defeats in their last five league games.

Juande Ramos was given the boot the last time Spurs lost four home league matches in five, in October 2008, and after seeing his charges booed off on Sunday, Pochettino admitted he would need to ‘change the mentality’ of his players before they next take to the field against Hull following the international break.

In the aftermath of their latest setback - beaten 2-1 by Stoke - striker Emmanuel Adebayor claimed the team ‘are not getting the message’.

But Vertonghen, an unused substitute against the Potters, believes the Spurs supremo will come good if he is afforded the time by chairman Daniel Levy.

“Pochettino loves to analyse games and gives more tactical meetings [than Sherwood],” he told FourFourTwo.

“He approaches everything in detail and in the end we will profit because of that. He loves a good conversation and detail and I think he is good for us.

“We try to play more from the back, with more pressing and a new formation so it takes some time. We have a lot of players so he needs time for everyone to fit.”


http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/vertonghen-pochs-approach-will-come-good

That actually scares me because if he analysis the games why can't he see where the problems are???

We have a pitch so small he complains yet we play through the middle all the time into the most crowded part of the pitch
 
That actually scares me because if he analysis the games why can't he see where the problems are???

We have a pitch so small he complains yet we play through the middle all the time into the most crowded part of the pitch

Maybe because he's going in to much more detail than you are there?
 
Jan Vertonghen is convinced Mauricio Pochettino’s analytical approach will eventually pay dividends at Spurs.

The Argentine succeeded Tim Sherwood in the summer having shone at Southampton, leading the south coast club to an eighth-placed finish last season and playing plenty of attractive football along the way.

But his methods are still to be fully embraced by his new troops at White Hart Lane, where Tottenham have suffered four defeats in their last five league games.

Juande Ramos was given the boot the last time Spurs lost four home league matches in five, in October 2008, and after seeing his charges booed off on Sunday, Pochettino admitted he would need to ‘change the mentality’ of his players before they next take to the field against Hull following the international break.

In the aftermath of their latest setback - beaten 2-1 by Stoke - striker Emmanuel Adebayor claimed the team ‘are not getting the message’.

But Vertonghen, an unused substitute against the Potters, believes the Spurs supremo will come good if he is afforded the time by chairman Daniel Levy.

“Pochettino loves to analyse games and gives more tactical meetings [than Sherwood],” he told FourFourTwo.

“He approaches everything in detail and in the end we will profit because of that. He loves a good conversation and detail and I think he is good for us.

“We try to play more from the back, with more pressing and a new formation so it takes some time. We have a lot of players so he needs time for everyone to fit.”


http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/vertonghen-pochs-approach-will-come-good


Vertonghen is sucking up after being warned by Pochettino about his attitude.
 
If so that is good.

He was probably just going through the motions in an interview like they are all trained to do and keeping his thoughts to himself.
He was seen saying "six points from six" warming down the pitch with Dier, Soldado and Stambouli.
 
Okay, here is my opinion/rant/load of *******s depending on your point of view.

Firstly, I have to lay my cards on the table, I was all for Pochettino being our manager. He seemed to tick all the boxes:

*PL experience
*Good record in the transfer market on a budget
*Players seemed to love playing for him
*Played simple attacking football that worked
*Developed and used young players

I thought the early signs were positive. I thought pre-season we looked good. I thought the signings in the summer were unspectacular, but appeared to be addressing the weakest areas of the squad (leadership in defence = Fazio, solid left-back = Davies, defensive cover = Dier). I had no idea about Stambouli but from what i read and saw on YouTube he sounded/looked like a decent acquisition.

This is where things start to just mystify me and things have come to a head with the last few performances, where IMO we've seen a consistently low level of performance, akin to the end of the Ramos era, start/end of the Santini era/end of the Hoddle era, where we just look rudderless and clueless.

The thing for me is that ultimately, football is a simple game. It's complicated by fools. I'm sure that's a quote from someone. Whatever. It's true. I thought Poch played a simple game at Southampton. A good manager looks at what he has and looks at how to get the most out of it. Redknapp did it. Sherwood did it. Jol did it. Our squad is far from ideal, but ultimately, Sherwood showed you could get a remarkably consistent string of results out of it, without even getting the chance to put his own stamp on the squad.

It really wound me up that AVB wouldn't pick the best players in the squad and try and get the most out of them. Instead, we had Ade on the bench, Eriksen in and out the team. Lamela wasn't played, even when he wasn't fit and the whole Lloris not getting picked straight away thing wound me up too.

But Poch is guilty of the same thing. Okay, Rose has done well this season, but he's not a solid defender. Never has been. I thought the whole point of buying Davies was that he offered that solidity in defence we'd been sorely lacking. Our Europa League team looks a lot more solid defensively and partly that is down to the defensive unit just being a bit more tactically aware and solid looking.

Just get him in the team. Similarly to Fazio. Supposedly this is who Poch brought in to provide the kind of organisational skills seen at Sevilla. But he's not in the team. Now we come to Vertonghen. He's our best defender when on form. He's a good footballer. He's not in the team - why? It beggars belief.

I also agree that he's a flawed player, but Dembele is our best midfielder. He works hard, he wins the ball back, shields the defence and is able to hold onto it in tight situations. Stambouli looked very solid next to him, but neither get picked other than in the cup games, where it seems to work, but they're never played in the league.

I like the fact that Mason is playing, but Capoue has shown poor form for quite a few games, and as a pair, Capoue and Mason just do not provide the protection our defence needs!

There are so many decent players not in the team.

Aaron Lennon I think is a great pro and he had a great pre-season under Poch. He looked very dangerous and his work ethic seemed to fit right into Poch's pressing tactics. Yet come the season he's dumped from the squad - why?

Holtby was another that shone in pre-season IMO and seemed well suited to Poch's all-action style. He's also a big character and a good asset in terms of the mentality of the squad - yet he gets bombed out in the summer?

I just don't get these decisions.

When the team line-ups were announced versus Stoke, the team looked so average on paper. I'm all for young players getting a chance, but bunging 3 of them into the starting XI against a tough Stoke outfit when under pressure doesn't smack to me of a manager giving youth a chance, it smacks to me of a manager desperately trying to curry favour with the crowd who are turning against him. We looked so much weaker than we could have been with the likes of Vertonghen, Davies, Dembele, Lamela, Adebayor in the team.

I don't think you can point the finger at Baldini for this mess. Sherwood showed you can get great football out of Eriksen and Adebayor. We've seen the best of Chadli this season and Lamela has shown signs of potential too.

Ultimately, these attacking players need to receive the ball quickly on the transition to be effective. Last season Sherwood set the team up to get the ball quickly into Eriksen and Adebayor. It worked.

As much as people got on Bentaleb's back, he's an intelligent and tenacious young lad who likes to play the simple game. Football is a simple game and its actually a skill to play the quick give and go.

Why's he not being used again? Again i just don't get it.

Poch far from playing the simple game, getting players to feel comfortable and play their natural game, it all feels a bit like AVB where you can almost feel the fact that the players are thinking all the time. Instead of playing a simple, quick pass, it's almost like the players are struggling to remember instructions and over thinking things, playing under pressure.

It's painful to watch.

I really think Poch is over complicating things and over thinking things and it shows out on the pitch.

It's really basic stuff, I play football every week and it's a really simple game, even to set up basic formations and defend as a unit. It's not rocket science.

If you look at Koeman, he's doing a good job at Southampton as he's not tried to change everything. he's obviously said to the players, you had a great season last season, just keep doing what you're doing. He's added some good buys in Tadic and Pelle and the rest is history.

We had a very good win ratio under Sherwood last season, things were not as bad as people made out. It was just an inexperienced team so we came unstuck against the top 4/5 teams, but we beat everyone else fairly comfortably. It honestly just needed tweaking but instead well....we've gone backwards alarmingly fast.

The body language of the players is poor and they're clearly not enjoying things out there. I don't think anyone is!

The thing is that I can't see anyway back from such poor displays. I can't see Poch turning it round. I really want him to, but it does have that bleak look about it and the quotes we are now hearing from Poch seem to suggest he's at a bit of a loss with it all.
 
Okay, here is my opinion/rant/load of *******s depending on your point of view.

Firstly, I have to lay my cards on the table, I was all for Pochettino being our manager. He seemed to tick all the boxes:

*PL experience
*Good record in the transfer market on a budget
*Players seemed to love playing for him
*Played simple attacking football that worked
*Developed and used young players

I thought the early signs were positive. I thought pre-season we looked good. I thought the signings in the summer were unspectacular, but appeared to be addressing the weakest areas of the squad (leadership in defence = Fazio, solid left-back = Davies, defensive cover = Dier). I had no idea about Stambouli but from what i read and saw on YouTube he sounded/looked like a decent acquisition.

This is where things start to just mystify me and things have come to a head with the last few performances, where IMO we've seen a consistently low level of performance, akin to the end of the Ramos era, start/end of the Santini era/end of the Hoddle era, where we just look rudderless and clueless.

The thing for me is that ultimately, football is a simple game. It's complicated by fools. I'm sure that's a quote from someone. Whatever. It's true. I thought Poch played a simple game at Southampton. A good manager looks at what he has and looks at how to get the most out of it. Redknapp did it. Sherwood did it. Jol did it. Our squad is far from ideal, but ultimately, Sherwood showed you could get a remarkably consistent string of results out of it, without even getting the chance to put his own stamp on the squad.

It really wound me up that AVB wouldn't pick the best players in the squad and try and get the most out of them. Instead, we had Ade on the bench, Eriksen in and out the team. Lamela wasn't played, even when he wasn't fit and the whole Lloris not getting picked straight away thing wound me up too.

But Poch is guilty of the same thing. Okay, Rose has done well this season, but he's not a solid defender. Never has been. I thought the whole point of buying Davies was that he offered that solidity in defence we'd been sorely lacking. Our Europa League team looks a lot more solid defensively and partly that is down to the defensive unit just being a bit more tactically aware and solid looking.

Just get him in the team. Similarly to Fazio. Supposedly this is who Poch brought in to provide the kind of organisational skills seen at Sevilla. But he's not in the team. Now we come to Vertonghen. He's our best defender when on form. He's a good footballer. He's not in the team - why? It beggars belief.

I also agree that he's a flawed player, but Dembele is our best midfielder. He works hard, he wins the ball back, shields the defence and is able to hold onto it in tight situations. Stambouli looked very solid next to him, but neither get picked other than in the cup games, where it seems to work, but they're never played in the league.

I like the fact that Mason is playing, but Capoue has shown poor form for quite a few games, and as a pair, Capoue and Mason just do not provide the protection our defence needs!

There are so many decent players not in the team.

Aaron Lennon I think is a great pro and he had a great pre-season under Poch. He looked very dangerous and his work ethic seemed to fit right into Poch's pressing tactics. Yet come the season he's dumped from the squad - why?

Holtby was another that shone in pre-season IMO and seemed well suited to Poch's all-action style. He's also a big character and a good asset in terms of the mentality of the squad - yet he gets bombed out in the summer?

I just don't get these decisions.

When the team line-ups were announced versus Stoke, the team looked so average on paper. I'm all for young players getting a chance, but bunging 3 of them into the starting XI against a tough Stoke outfit when under pressure doesn't smack to me of a manager giving youth a chance, it smacks to me of a manager desperately trying to curry favour with the crowd who are turning against him. We looked so much weaker than we could have been with the likes of Vertonghen, Davies, Dembele, Lamela, Adebayor in the team.

I don't think you can point the finger at Baldini for this mess. Sherwood showed you can get great football out of Eriksen and Adebayor. We've seen the best of Chadli this season and Lamela has shown signs of potential too.

Ultimately, these attacking players need to receive the ball quickly on the transition to be effective. Last season Sherwood set the team up to get the ball quickly into Eriksen and Adebayor. It worked.

As much as people got on Bentaleb's back, he's an intelligent and tenacious young lad who likes to play the simple game. Football is a simple game and its actually a skill to play the quick give and go.

Why's he not being used again? Again i just don't get it.

Poch far from playing the simple game, getting players to feel comfortable and play their natural game, it all feels a bit like AVB where you can almost feel the fact that the players are thinking all the time. Instead of playing a simple, quick pass, it's almost like the players are struggling to remember instructions and over thinking things, playing under pressure.

It's painful to watch.

I really think Poch is over complicating things and over thinking things and it shows out on the pitch.

It's really basic stuff, I play football every week and it's a really simple game, even to set up basic formations and defend as a unit. It's not rocket science.

If you look at Koeman, he's doing a good job at Southampton as he's not tried to change everything. he's obviously said to the players, you had a great season last season, just keep doing what you're doing. He's added some good buys in Tadic and Pelle and the rest is history.

We had a very good win ratio under Sherwood last season, things were not as bad as people made out. It was just an inexperienced team so we came unstuck against the top 4/5 teams, but we beat everyone else fairly comfortably. It honestly just needed tweaking but instead well....we've gone backwards alarmingly fast.

The body language of the players is poor and they're clearly not enjoying things out there. I don't think anyone is!

The thing is that I can't see anyway back from such poor displays. I can't see Poch turning it round. I really want him to, but it does have that bleak look about it and the quotes we are now hearing from Poch seem to suggest he's at a bit of a loss with it all.

I think that what you have written there pretty much sums up the feelings of most of us. Bemused is the only word I can think of to describe how I feel at the moment. I wasn't expecting miracles from Poch but I was hoping for a little more than I have seen. For the record I was ambivalent about his appointment taking a 'lets wait and see' attitude. My fear now is that we will lose the next three league games and then we really will be under some pressure.
 
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