• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Jan Vertonghen

Yoof said:
We saw against Leicester in the replay that if Jan and Toby aren't playing then Dier will partner Wimmer at CB, with Bentaleb coming back into midfield.
Click to expand...

Good point, to be honest with you I forget that only last season Dier was a centre back. Feels like he's always been centre mid. I do still feel like another centre back would be ideal though as Diers been brilliant in midfield and I feel it would be a shame to lose him there, almost like an injury in itself.
 
So no news as to the results of the MRI scan. Typical I guess of our mysterious medical team updates.

Probably have to wait for the next press conference with Poch. Fingers crossed it isn't as bad as it could be.
 
awesome dawson said:
So no news as to the results of the MRI scan. Typical I guess of our mysterious medical team updates.

Probably have to wait for the next press conference with Poch. Fingers crossed it isn't as bad as it could be.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing. Whatever the medical staff say, add another two weeks as Poch never rushes players back, which is (I think) en excellent thing...
 
Jan Vertonghen injury: Spurs’ title hopes hurt as defender ruled out for two months

Tottenham Hotspur are facing their most troubling injury absence of the season after Jan Vertonghen was ruled out for up to two months with a knee ligament problem.

Spurs have the best defence in the Premier League, conceding just 19 goals in their 23 games so far. That security has been built on the all-Belgian pairing of Vertonghen and Toby Alderweireld, who have started every league game together at centre-back.

That run will end next week, though, with Vertonghen on the sidelines for six weeks at the least. He damaged medial collateral ligaments in his left knee as he fell awkwardly after colliding with Connor Wickham’s elbow during Saturday’s 3-1 win at Crystal Palace. Wickham was charged with violent conduct by the Football Association on Monday.

Vertonghen will certainly miss Spurs’ crucial trip to Emirates Marketing Project on 14 February, as well as both legs of their Europa League last-32 tie with Fiorentina.

He has targeted a return for the north London derby against Arsenal on 5 March. If Tottenham’s worst fears are confirmed, and he is out for two months, that could take him all the way up until the international break in late March.

Manager Mauricio Pochettino will need to replace Vertonghen with someone who can be just as effective, and the man in line is Kevin Wimmer, signed from Cologne for £4m in the summer. Wimmer has started five games so far this season, all in the cups, and made his Premier League debut when he came on for Vertonghen on Saturday.

Wimmer is expected to partner Alderweireld at Colchester United in the FA Cup fourth round on Saturday and, if he does well, should keep his place for the Premier League game at Norwich City on Tuesday. Eric Dier could be an alternative to Wimmer, having played in a three-man defence with Vertonghen and Alderweireld at Watford last month. But Pochettino might be reluctant to move his midfield linchpin back into defence for two whole months.
Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of moving Dier as that means making two major changes. Dier in midfield and the stable CB pairing have been two reasons for our success this season, we shouldn't change both at once if we have a choice.
 
jts1882 said:
I don't like the idea of moving Dier as that means making two major changes. Dier in midfield and the stable CB pairing have been two reasons for our success this season, we shouldn't change both at once if we have a choice.
Click to expand...
I know Dier played CB last season, but his performance as a defensive midfielder this year has been nothing short of brilliant. Shifting him back into defence has the potential to significantly weaken our midfield (IMO) and by extension our defensive record. Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele all have qualities that make them good central players, but none of them are the kind of shielding players that Dier has been so far. How we deal with Vertonghen's absence could be a pivotal part of the rest of our season; but whatever we do, Dier needs to stay where he is.
 
DublinSpur said:
I know Dier played CB last season, but his performance as a defensive midfielder this year has been nothing short of brilliant. Shifting him back into defence has the potential to significantly weaken our midfield (IMO) and by extension our defensive record. Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele all have qualities that make them good central players, but none of them are the kind of shielding players that Dier has been so far. How we deal with Vertonghen's absence could be a pivotal part of the rest of our season; but whatever we do, Dier needs to stay where he is.
Click to expand...
The best performance I've seen in defensive midfield in terms of shielding the back-4 and as a whole really has been Dembele vs Liverpool... ironically the match Dier was suspended for...
 
DublinSpur said:
I know Dier played CB last season, but his performance as a defensive midfielder this year has been nothing short of brilliant. Shifting him back into defence has the potential to significantly weaken our midfield (IMO) and by extension our defensive record. Bentaleb, Mason and Dembele all have qualities that make them good central players, but none of them are the kind of shielding players that Dier has been so far. How we deal with Vertonghen's absence could be a pivotal part of the rest of our season; but whatever we do, Dier needs to stay where he is.
Click to expand...

Do you think it's realistic for us as a club to experience two injuries to 2 of our 3 highest ranked centre backs without the result having "the potential to significantly weaken our defensive record"?

Looking at our competitors (both realistic and not so realistic) I think they almost certainly can't cope with 2 out of 3 highest ranked CBs injured without getting significantly weakened. Only possible exception I can see is Liverpool and that's only because all of their centre backs really are well described as much of a muchness.
 
braineclipse said:
Do you think it's realistic for us as a club to experience two injuries to 2 of our 3 highest ranked centre backs without the result having "the potential to significantly weaken our defensive record"?
Click to expand...
I've been a bit like a broken record on this issue; but basically I think a club with European football should have 4 good quality centre-backs on the books, plus a youngster who can fill in if absolutely necessary. Been saying that for years. Obviously there'll be a "first choice" pairing and losing one or both of them will clearly weaken the defence. But I don't think it needs to be "significantly" weakened if you have another couple of players who can plug the gap.

What's more - in theory that's exactly what we have. We have Vertonghen & Alderweireld as first choice; with Wimmer and Fazio as backup. And then - in a major crisis we can use CCV / Veljkovic or Davies or even Dier (though I'd rather he stayed where he is).

The issue is that Fazio does not appear to be in contention (not with the travelling party and failing to even make the bench in the FA cup). Therefore, if he's really not an option, it's my view that we need to offload him and get in someone who will be an option. I don't think think that's a massively controversial position (and if Pochettino thinks CCV or Veljkovic is ready to be that 4th choice then I'm happy with that... but there's been no indication of that either).
 
DublinSpur said:
I've been a bit like a broken record on this issue; but basically I think a club with European football should have 4 good quality centre-backs on the books, plus a youngster who can fill in if absolutely necessary. Been saying that for years. Obviously there'll be a "first choice" pairing and losing one or both of them will clearly weaken the defence. But I don't think it needs to be "significantly" weakened if you have another couple of players who can plug the gap.

What's more - in theory that's exactly what we have. We have Vertonghen & Alderweireld as first choice; with Wimmer and Fazio as backup. And then - in a major crisis we can use CCV / Veljkovic or Davies or even Dier (though I'd rather he stayed where he is).

The issue is that Fazio does not appear to be in contention (not with the travelling party and failing to even make the bench in the FA cup). Therefore, if he's really not an option, it's my view that we need to offload him and get in someone who will be an option. I don't think think that's a massively controversial position (and if Pochettino thinks CCV or Veljkovic is ready to be that 4th choice then I'm happy with that... but there's been no indication of that either).
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
I think it would be impossible to get a centreback of the required standard in this transfer window and that neither CCV or Veljkovic are ready to play at 1st team level. In the U21 games I've seen our defence has been poor, particularly at set pieces. Both young players are good players but lack experience and neither are commanding in the air. We will just have to get by with the players we have then blame Levy for not buying 4 world class players for each position.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I think it would be impossible to get a centreback of the required standard in this transfer window and that neither CCV or Veljkovic are ready to play at 1st team level. In the U21 games I've seen our defence has been poor, particularly at set pieces. Both young players are good players but lack experience and neither are commanding in the air. We will just have to get by with the players we have then blame Levy for not buying 4 world class players for each position.
Click to expand...

It wouldnt happen, but I read somewhere Cahill is edging for a move from Chelsea. But would be too expensive even if Chelsea amazingly would consider selling him to us
 
There were a few tenuous links with Bartra. Can't say I know a whole lot about him.

Fazio was fine as a 4th choice CB. He wasn't brilliant but decent enough in a pinch. From the outside it appears that he has been cut loose, so that would imply some bridge burning has been happening out of the public eye. So be it, but if he's effectively gone from the club we do need to replace him. We're not looking for someone to oust the dutch boys, just someone in and around the level of Fazio (maybe a little bit faster).

Moving Dier back would be a mistake IMO.
 
paxtonwolf said:
It wouldnt happen, but I read somewhere Cahill is edging for a move from Chelsea. But would be too expensive even if Chelsea amazingly would consider selling him to us
Click to expand...

Blimey .... I'd forgotten he even existed. Did he screw up there, or did he not get back in after injury ?
 
DublinSpur said:
I've been a bit like a broken record on this issue; but basically I think a club with European football should have 4 good quality centre-backs on the books, plus a youngster who can fill in if absolutely necessary. Been saying that for years. Obviously there'll be a "first choice" pairing and losing one or both of them will clearly weaken the defence. But I don't think it needs to be "significantly" weakened if you have another couple of players who can plug the gap.

What's more - in theory that's exactly what we have. We have Vertonghen & Alderweireld as first choice; with Wimmer and Fazio as backup. And then - in a major crisis we can use CCV / Veljkovic or Davies or even Dier (though I'd rather he stayed where he is).

The issue is that Fazio does not appear to be in contention (not with the travelling party and failing to even make the bench in the FA cup). Therefore, if he's really not an option, it's my view that we need to offload him and get in someone who will be an option. I don't think think that's a massively controversial position (and if Pochettino thinks CCV or Veljkovic is ready to be that 4th choice then I'm happy with that... but there's been no indication of that either).
Click to expand...

And again, broken record argument going the other way...

3 good quality centre backs with a 4th choice CB being someone that also plays other positions (perhaps even a regular in a different position) is also a valid strategy. Again, Chelsea with Ivanovic, Barca with Busquets...

The benefit to this "3+1" rather than 4 strategy is that the 4th choice CB (or 3rd choice sometimes with Ivanovic iirc) is that when the second backup player is called upon he's much more likely to be match fit and ready to go. Whereas a backup to the backup when you have a solid often-present first choice CB partnership is unlikely to be match fit. That 4th choice CB is also likely to not be anywhere near the quality you'd want as a good enough CB is unlikely to accept being 4th choice CB for us. Whereas a role playing a different position and also being an option at CB is probably more palatable.

Disadvantage of this strategy is of course that you have to make changes to more of your team when you do have to move to your 4th choice CB.

Pros and cons either way. But I don't think a strong argument can be made that the 4th choice you talk about needs to be a "backup backup CB" that doesn't require one to shuffle the team a bit. For me at least quite a few of the teams that have tried to go for the 4 pure centre backs approach have struggled to do so successfully. A bit too easy perhaps to point at Emirates Marketing Project... But other examples including ourselves can be mentioned.

If Fazio isn't an option it doesn't seem he's been an option all season. Seemed like we were happy to sell him in the summer after signing Alderweireld and Wimmer.
 
Quotes from Poch
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/sport/foot..._back_after_jan_vertonghen_s_injury_1_4399024

“We have a lot of players in defensive positions that can play. We have another youngster from the academy, Cameron Carter-Vickers.

“He’s young but he has enough quality and he’s been training with us from the beginning of the season and playing with the Under-21s.

“I think it’s a good opportunity [for him] to stay with us now more consistently. I don’t expect to [sign a player to] cover Jan Vertonghen, I think we have enough players to cover his injury.”
 
Modric THFC said:
Quotes from Poch
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/sport/foot..._back_after_jan_vertonghen_s_injury_1_4399024

“We have a lot of players in defensive positions that can play. We have another youngster from the academy, Cameron Carter-Vickers.

“He’s young but he has enough quality and he’s been training with us from the beginning of the season and playing with the Under-21s.

“I think it’s a good opportunity [for him] to stay with us now more consistently. I don’t expect to [sign a player to] cover Jan Vertonghen, I think we have enough players to cover his injury.”
Click to expand...


Great stuff.

I think this is further evidence of the importance which should be placed in Poch's finest (and most illustrative) quote ever...'players sign to train'...Poc's integration of CCV and other youths such as Winks and Onomah in the first team training from the get-go this season tells us everything we need to know. This squad is trained with the same philosophy, and for the very reasons that we are seeing. When we need to cover for injuries, the ideal is to go within/inside a tight and harmonious squad than having to spend wonga on a gamble (how can we ever forget the likes of Rocha and Neilsen, proof positive that working from within is better when you can)...

Love his work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back