Dempsey really doesn't press much and even Fulham fans used to call him lazy. Siggy and Holtby are substantially more hard-working throughout 90 min imo, though it is oftentimes headless chicken-running sort of effort. OTOH, you could say Dempsey 'preserves' his energy to keep looking for good chances up until the final second and his finishing seems to be very cool under pressure.
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Dempsey
- Thread starter Howard Webb
- Start date
Dempsey really doesn't press much and even Fulham fans used to call him lazy. Siggy and Holtby are substantially more hard-working throughout 90 min imo, though it is oftentimes headless chicken-running sort of effort. OTOH, you could say Dempsey 'preserves' his energy to keep looking for good chances up until the final second and his finishing seems to be very cool under pressure.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
All of those players look sharper and snappier, but Dempsey is a full-bore slugger...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I fundamentally disagree, further, I've never heard Fulham fans call him lazy. The man has often played two or three positions per game! As for the 'headless chicken' re: the others, I agree re: Lewis who certainly needs to learn to move a bit smarter...
IMO he definitely presses less than the others... to try and back this up, though of course this isn't the perfect measure of pressing or work-rate, here are the tackles per 90 minutes for those players:
Holtby: 2.5
Siggy: 2.0
Lennon: 1.3
Dempsey: 1.1
(Adebayor): 1.0
Would be interesting to see stats on distance travelled or ground covered.
At the very least I don't think he is more hard-working enough to justify the constant use of that label as his key strength, or as one of them.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
I'm not sure if you are seriously using tackles per game to justify 'lazyness'..
I'm going to hope you are joking and leave it at this.
He is a matchwinner. They are like goal dust.
"though of course this isn't the perfect measure of pressing or work-rate"...
Anyway where have I said Dempsey is lazy? I just think he's less hard-working defensively than Siggy, Holtby and Lennon. And at the very least that he's not more hard-working enough to justify the constant 'hard-working' label.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
It's not that it's not perfect. It's that it's a completely pointless interpretation of stats that have almost nothing to do with each other.
I don't see him as any less hard working than them. He puts the effort in. How often do you see him in the box when nobody else in it? Quite a bit. He makes the effort to be in the right place at the right time and it works.
The opposite of 'hard working' is 'lazyness' so yes, you are looking at the 'lazyness' of players.
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FriendlyMailman
Mbulelo Mabizela
completely agree. out of all the entire players that have been played on the wing this season, the only ones who genuinely help out their FB are gylfi and lennon
"I just think he's less hard-working defensively than Siggy, Holtby and Lennon." And I don't see why being in right place at the right time is a sign of being hard-working. It's a different quality entirely.
Neither do I see why the tackling stats are completely pointless in this context. They just reflect what I see on the pitch - Siggy, Holtby and Lennon working at least as hard, if not harder, to win the ball back from the opposition.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
People have different defensive duties. That's why tackling stats are pointless.
You think that Dempsey and Bale are given the same defensive duties as Siggy and Lennon?
Holtby is a CM, so he doesn't really fit into this.
(I of course mean when Bale plays out wide)
Added to the point that the AM and Striker will spend far more time chasing the ball and less time making tackles, making tackles made an obsolete method of comparison for them as well.
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Even if Dempsey is given less defensive responsibility (which seems like mostly conjecture), that doesn't change the fact that he isn't more hard-working defensively than the others; it just changes the reason why.
Look I like Dempsey, I'm just a bit bored of the constant references to how hard he works (when I don't think it's a particularly stand-out trait of his)
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
I disagree entirely. I don't recall a single game he hasn't given it his all. There are games that it hasn't come off, and it hasn't gone well, but he's always put the effort in.
Conjecture? It's my opinion after watching our games this season. If he was meant to be doing more in that area, than he would have been pulled off far more often for Siggy.
Fair enough. Will have to agree to disagree for now!
EDIT: Not to disagree entirely - I'm not suggesting he's lazy or anything.
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Rorschach
Sonny Walters
He has that elusive trait of popping up with important goals. You really need someone like that to make the difference in tight matches. Lampard is another such individual.
In saying that I would take VDV over him 10 times out of 10 if given the choice. VDV scored those goals too but was instrumental in our possession game, which has disappeared almost. Dempsey is a right time, right place type of player IMHO. He is fantastic at what he does but is not the complete package. Good squad player.
In saying that I would take VDV over him 10 times out of 10 if given the choice. VDV scored those goals too but was instrumental in our possession game, which has disappeared almost. Dempsey is a right time, right place type of player IMHO. He is fantastic at what he does but is not the complete package. Good squad player.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Just my impression and I could easily be wrong, but my feeling is that Sig fails to get back to help his fullback more often than Dempsey. Seems to be more of a lack of pace and athleticism than a lack of will though, but still.
Dempsey scores a lot in the box because he keeps making those runs into the box. Those runs can be as exhausting as defensive runs and are often made at closer to top speed. Lennon and Sig don't tend to get into the box nearly as much as Dempsey, again based on nothing other than my impression, something that is obviously not going to be fully accurate.
Dempsey scores a lot in the box because he keeps making those runs into the box. Those runs can be as exhausting as defensive runs and are often made at closer to top speed. Lennon and Sig don't tend to get into the box nearly as much as Dempsey, again based on nothing other than my impression, something that is obviously not going to be fully accurate.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Can hardly blame Dempsey for the lack of team possession game though, he's played on the wings far more than in the centre.
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Rorschach
Sonny Walters
That's true and I'm not solely blaming any player for this, it's just an observation. VDV played on the wing too sometimes but came deep constantly, too much some might say, but the byproduct was high possession stats.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
My recollection differs, he played out wide when Lennon was out and Redknapp was basted for it by everyone on here when he did as he just wasn't suited for it.
He came too deep in the AM role though, that's true, it led to the Striker becoming isolated though.
Anyway i guess the point is that Dempsey isn't as good with the ball as VDV, but also shouldn't have to be integral in our 'possession game' as VDV was due to the positional difference. In my view there have been three main issues with the possession game this season. Modric going, VDV going and Bale playing as AM. But i would be moving off topic..
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Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Yes I agree, playing him wide never really worked but I'm pretty sure he wasn't that disciplined and came inside quite a bit. I could be remembering that wrong mind you. Beer haze.